Experiments in looking at the cueball while delivering the stroke.

The degree of precision I am able to apply is enhanced.
Precision all starts with the Strike to the white.
 
Good morning. Not sure if this is linked already. Oh well shrug. This is where Ronnie answered the "which ball last" question.
I found 8 videos in the Ronnie O'Sullivan Master Class group. All are quick and bursting with knowledge. I noticed that when speaking of cueball control, he uses Stephen Hendry and John Higgins as prime examples. My observation of John Higgins and his eyebrow movement, has me convinced that he's looking at the white as it is struck. Of course Hendry says just that.

"Stay with the white. Keep following ing it through."
 
I just found Ronnie's Cue School, where he works with 2 young men and says, "Object ball last."
The video was posted to YouTube 11 years ago shrug 🤷‍♂️.
Hmmmm??? Well I can hypothesis eyes, based on my personal experience. Would Shirley love to hear his thoughts on the topic 11 years later. Shrug 🤷‍♂️
 
Good morning. Not sure if this is linked already. Oh well shrug. This is where Ronnie answered the "which ball last" question.
I found 8 videos in the Ronnie O'Sullivan Master Class group. All are quick and bursting with knowledge. I noticed that when speaking of cueball control, he uses Stephen Hendry and John Higgins as prime examples. My observation of John Higgins and his eyebrow movement, has me convinced that he's looking at the white as it is struck. Of course Hendry says just that.

"Stay with the white. Keep following ing it through."
Watching Gorst/Krause match.
Obj. ball last.

What's also in play tho I've not heard anyone mention this/Target Size.

The 2 1/4'' targets are easier to see from distance than the smaller balls, so yeah I could see relying on your approach/stance/shot line to pocket much smaller objects on a 12' surface.... cue ball last.
 
your approach/stance/shot line
Yes! and I would add the mechanical. A consistent and repeatable stroke. I have various exercises that I employ in my practice. Eyes closed is one. It's an illuminating drill that I haven't visited in a while. Perhaps the I should give it a go again just to confirm that all's sound with my basic set up and delivery. Through inattention bad habits can creep in. Maintenance maintenance maintenance. 😉
The precision of the strike to the white is my focus at impact. Now!
I learned and thrived looking at the object ball as I delivered the stroke. My shot making was the strength that my first coach promoted. The ability to make difficult shots can overcome an inability to create simple shots through precision cueball landing after the shot is executed. Over an extended match or event, endurance becomes a factor. Jason Shaw's endurance record in straight pool is in my humble opinion proof of the advantage of precise shape. (My experience is that looking at the white as I strike it produces the most precise shape.) Of course shot maker must come first but difficult shots do put more of a drain on my battery, mostly mental but physically also. 🤷‍♂️ I was surprised at Jason speaking on his method. Make that Pleasantly surprised. 🤷‍♂️
 
While not "on topic" this interview with Stephen Hendry is worth a listen. Collateral knowledge is available. 🤷‍♂️


I really really like that term collateral knowledge. When first starting out a book, video, or instructor may convey huge amounts of knowledge. However, after we are fairly advanced at an activity tiny scraps of knowledge may be of great value. They may come from totally unexpected places too.

I bookmarked the link to the interview on youtube. Been a very long day but I will watch it another time.

Going off the off topic, early in my driving I passed the fastest car in that part of the country. A few laps later my car lost maybe 25 or 50 RPM. When I went in the pits I raised the hood opened up the throttle and saw that it had slipped the tiniest bit off of wide open. I was telling a friend that had raced midgets in California in another era. He told me that the superfast driver had his throttle pedal very high, he didn't know why. Since I was reworking throttle linkage anyway I raised my pedal high. We ran mechanical secondaries on the carburetors and I found it necessary to pick up my whole leg and heel to shut down the primaries so when I blipped the throttle going into a turn I was no longer shutting the engine down to an idle, more like half throttle. Free speed from somebody who had never turned a lap in a stock car!

I picked up a few bits of pool knowledge here and there too. Efren liked to watch bangers, probably still does. One reason is that they sometimes did something that worked by accident. He learned how to do the same thing in practice and added that little bit to his game. Something I used to be pretty good at and haven't practiced in years was playing off of points. I don't know the last time I have seen somebody bank or kick off of a side pocket point. Not nearly as hard as it sounds to go to the corner on the far side. That same cushion corner that hoses you often can help you too!

Thanks for the link and the reminder knowledge is where you find it.

Hu
 
The flaw in that logic is that watching the cue tip impact the cueball allows my eyes to stay with the cueball as it travels to the object ball and see exactly how it interacts with the object ball. I even see any rotation imparted to the object ball. A skid is easily detected and a miss of the point of contact aimed for on the object ball is easily observed as well.
It's disingenuous for a person who only has experience with one method to speak with authority regarding the other. It's disappointing when a person with a large megaphone and presumed expertise promotes flawed logic. 🤷‍♂️ The good looks at snooker players eye patterns are available and yet miss interpreted while the words of both Willie Hoppe (Billiards Digest player of the century) and Stephen Hendry (definitely GOAT until Ronnie overtook) are discounted with, "he doesn't know where his eyes are last".
The difference in the results attainable by both methods is slight. Cueball control is the goal of both. It's more readily attained by some one way and others get better results the other. Experiments are a reasonable way to gain knowledge. Try it. You might like it. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

A lot of interesting comments on this subject. Something I had not thought about until recently after seeing Jason's video and a discussion started at my local pool hall.

If anyone has read my intro topic, I've come back to the game after a 25 year break. The one thing I didn't pay much attention to is which ball I looked at last. I did what I've done since I started playing back in my 20's. I look at CBL

It was interesting that some at the pool hall where aghast at the suggestion of CBL but, once more people gave comment it was obvious that many people do actually look at CBL. Of course, OBL people were insisting they were right and vice versa. There is argument for both methods.

My view? I've done what I always did....My 6 month progression has me back to maybe 80% of what I was. I have had to concentrate more on my cue action after the long break and for quite a while simply played Center Ball shots. Sometimes a little 'top' or 'bottom' but avoided trying to use side for quite a while.
I felt (for me) watching my cue strike the CB was important. I could see instantly if my cue action was off, if I was slicing, not following through or stabbing at the ball.
I spent a long while simply hitting the CB up the center line and bringing it back (hopefully) straight to my cue tip. I didn't look at the cushion I was aiming at. My cue stroke should be straight once I line up to hit the ball where I want it to go. Looking at CB showed me instantly if I was 'off'

I don't think there is a right/wrong way. We see top professionals use CBL it is obviously something that works for THEM. It's not going to work for everyone, and I certainly don't think it is a habit you can change....and why would we want to?

One thing I have noticed: When playing short shots perhaps needing a very precise slow speed, I DO tend to look at the OB last. I'm not sure why. I suspect it is to do with my brain needing to visualize the distance better as I am striking the cue ball.

What is probably true is it really shouldn't matter. If we had the perfect stroke and the perfect aiming system in our brain it wouldn't matter which ball we looked at. As someone said, we could close our eyes and pot every ball on the table 100% of the time.
 
Something I used to be pretty good at and haven't practiced in years was playing off of points
You just reminded me of something I used to do. When I won the flip and was waiting while my opponent racked 'em, I would shoot the cueball off the side pocket point with the goal of having it come straight back to my cue tip. It was useful knowledge of how the table played. Different tables had a different reaction. Plus it was almost like a stretch and flex warm up as well.
One guy not only slow played but slow racked as well. He did it to try and throw his opponents off their game. When I set the cueball at the headstring he slowed even more, thinking I was anxious to go. Then when I shot whitey to the side pocket point to have it come straight back he realized his tactic was useless against me. 🤷‍♂️ He quit slow racking me when he saw me getting warmed up by dribbling the cueball off the point. 🤷‍♂️
 
CBL/OBL___ how you make shots is most of it. If like most, you fine tune until you pull the trigger, obviously CBL won't do.
OTOH, if you're a preset kind of shooter, the reverse is probably true. OBL will present too much irrelevant hand eye coordination.; increasing the frequency of misses.
 
What is probably true is it really shouldn't matter. If we had the perfect stroke and the perfect aiming system in our brain it wouldn't matter which ball we looked at
Ed Zackery!!! Eyes closed while delivering the stroke is a practice I haven't used in ages either. In the beginning it was a drill I budgeted a portion of my daily practice to. With the goal of perfection in my platform and mechanics that I could repeat through habit and or Feel.
So Thank You for the reminder. In the morning I will revisit the drill and see if my platform and mechanics are still stable. 👍
Uh oh feel just triggered a favorite memory and of course a retelling of a favorite memory. 😉 it was the league championship hill/hill game. I was on the 8 ball and had left Whitey on the 50 yard line and couldn't decide if I should play it to the corner or the side. Coaching was allowed so I asked our captain for input. It was the oversize cueball and I wasn't sure if I would possibly scratch going either way. He wasn't sure either. So when he couldn't advise on the cut, I enquired, "how about the bank?" As it was a straight cross corner bank. He again didn't want to commit and asked, "Can you Feel It?" We had been deliberating long enough so my reply was, " one way to find out ". I immediately announced "Cross Corner" and pow splat. We won. 🤷‍♂️ Oh what fun.
 
I don't think there is a right/wrong way. We see top professionals use CBL it is obviously something that works for THEM. It's not going to work for everyone, and I certainly don't think it is a habit you can change....and why would we want to?
I concur with your assessment. I also have an answer for why I changed. After a sabbatical from the game, upon return it wasn't the same. I couldn't play to the level that I had previously attained. I started "The Experiment " and was pleasantly surprised. Cueball at impact provides pleasantly surprising results to this day. When I am faced with a long hard shot that requires pin point shape for the next ball. I have to Trust my Training and Method. Perfect Cueball control is So exhililerating and attained perfect shape has often surprised even Me!
The collateral advantage of CBL is the immediate feedback I get observing the strike to the white. Very useful in practice and in competition the clues to, "Why did I miss" can be invaluable in case I get the chance to Right the Ship. 🤷‍♂️
 
CBL/OBL___ how you make shots is most of it. If like most, you fine tune until you pull the trigger, obviously CBL won't do.
OTOH, if you're a preset kind of shooter, the reverse is probably true. OBL will present too much irrelevant hand eye coordination.; increasing the frequency of misses.
I enjoyed the conversation between Stephen Hendry and Judd Trump. My observation of expression on the part of Judd made me wonder if Stephen's revelation to him could lead to tinkering on his part. Him saying that as a beginner he did look at the white last. His early coach taught him otherwise and he changed.
My recent observation of his technique provides hints but no conclusion....Yet. Judd surely would like to own any or all the records set by Stephen and Ronnie. GO JUDD! is my sent a mint.
I Will be observing closely at every opportunity,. Well enquiring minds enjoy watching is my excuse. 😉 🤷‍♂️
 
I concur with your assessment. I also have an answer for why I changed. After a sabbatical from the game, upon return it wasn't the same. I couldn't play to the level that I had previously attained. I started "The Experiment " and was pleasantly surprised. Cueball at impact provides pleasantly surprising results to this day. When I am faced with a long hard shot that requires pin point shape for the next ball. I have to Trust my Training and Method. Perfect Cueball control is So exhililerating and attained perfect shape has often surprised even Me!
The collateral advantage of CBL is the immediate feedback I get observing the strike to the white. Very useful in practice and in competition the clues to, "Why did I miss" can be invaluable in case I get the chance to Right the Ship. 🤷‍♂️

I think that's what it comes down to for me. Not so much 'training' but simply what I have done since I can remember ever starting to play pool.

As stated, there are moments I do look at OB last. I've not realized how much or when I do it until I started thinking about it. Obviously, my brain, on some shots, needs a better visualization of the distance just as I play the shot. This does seem to happen on shorter precise shots. The longer shots? perhaps muscle memory kicks in. 3/4 ball, 1/2 table...come back to cushion?...my muscles know what to do so I need to concentrate on hitting the cue ball exactly in the right spot. Slight cut from 4"...but just follow off rail a couple inches? The brain analyses the distance and needs to picture the shot...perhaps it needs the whole scene in frame, cue ball, object ball, rail, finishing point.
Just how our brain calculates all this is a mystery.
 
Must be time for me to get back in My room. 🤷‍♂️
Oh my what a topic. Oh well. Just dropped in to add my latest discovery. Well it's incomplete that I have only viewed the opening break shot executed by Mark Selby. It's not what I expected a couple days ago. It will be interesting to see if
he looks at the white as it is struck on all shots. Even Dr Dave admits it's best for "Some shots". I have viewed this match in a couple of youtube products. I have noticed a handful of times that I could be 95 percent sure of Mark's eyes (up or down) at impact. They were all down. 🤷‍♂️
Have a look, it's right at the start.
 
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