Explain it to me in detail, just this once.

JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
OK, the code of conduct for knocking someone's action is written in the pool player's guide book somewhere but I need to freshen up exactly what it says and why.

How is it that it is "improper" to knock another player's action?

Tonight there were some road players in town and they were using their cameras to photograph some of our local players and then were sending the photos to "someone". I assume they were sending them to "someone" so that they could get a line on the players so that they could know who to play and how to play.

I'm serious, how is it that it is not cool to knock a road player's action?

Is it OK to tell your best friends how the roadie plays?
Or even, is it OK to tell your acquaintances what you know about the roadies?
Well what about trying to make sure that the rest of the pool hall gets a fair game from the roadies?

It is obvious that the roadies use technology (cell phones and now camera phones) to acquire a significant edge over the unsuspecting "lambs". I think maybe that "someone" is knocking the local lambs' action. They forward the pictures with names to the "steer horse" and I was just wondering how it is that it is not cool for the locals to wise up the the rest of the locals?

JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
Is it OK to tell your best friends how the roadie plays?

JoeyA
Click to expand...

How would you know how the person plays if you don't know them, and if you do know who they are then what kind of road player are they??

But back to your question, first and foremost your loyalty should be to your friends and home room guys, unless of course you hate their guts.

Why would you feel any loyalty to a person you don't know and will never see again?

Now if 2 guys I know equally are matching up I stay out of it unless I like one better or I'm asked straight up by both. Keep in mind some guys aren't lock artists or whimps and may just want some tough action.

Jim
 
perhaps we should make a difference between people on the road matching up with strangers, and people who are on the road and already have lines on their games.... i think that would be a huge help in deciding what you should do.


if i see somebody trying to get a cash game out of a friend of mine who's clearly outmatches, i'll let my friend know that he's beat so either dont bet or make sure and learn something from it.
 
Onemoreyouth said:
perhaps we should make a difference between people on the road matching up with strangers, and people who are on the road and already have lines on their games.... i think that would be a huge help in deciding what you should do.


if i see somebody trying to get a cash game out of a friend of mine who's clearly outmatches, i'll let my friend know that he's beat so either dont bet or make sure and learn something from it.
Click to expand...

Can someone tell me the difference between a road player and anyone else? We just had this thread, take a look at it and it will say loads. Look at Grady's recent thread and all of those players could be considered road player, or perhaps just good players that had more gamble than others. Look how many people have looked at his thread and the one about Cliff and Stevie. That is where the excitement and interest is, don't screw it up.

When one new player, your earlier posts make that clear, can make this decision, why bother to play at all. There are few times that anyone knows enough about pool to say that another can't win. Worse yet, they shouldn't try. Perhaps one player hasn't played in awhile and their game is not what it was a few months ago. The guy that steps up and plays a stranger, without knowing exactly what his speed is, may likely be the next world champion because he has the balls to do it, even though his room full of "friends" will tell him he can't win, he may. ala Shannon Murphy...look at his game now. Mind your own business and hope the next time you get a game, that you think you can win, some "friend' doesn't come up and kill your game. If your cutting money or in on the bet, or something very close, then it may be your business, otherwise watch and learn.

Think I'm getting too old for this new mentality of players. Perhaps everyone should just play fun pool and we wouldn't have to worry about anyone fleecing the local lambs, because everyone would be a lamb. That would leave them more money to blow in the local hold'em game.
 
It's nice to know the odds going in

If I'm gambling on anything it's good to know the odds.....it makes for an informed bet.........You don't go to the track and lay down a huge bet because it's a pretty horse.....They post odds for a reason....

The Idea that a road player needs a "lamb" (I read that as mark) says con game to me.......I guess one could say that the lamb has it coming for being stupid enough to get into a game without a clue as to the probability of winning.

I'm not against betting long odds or taking a risk.....but you have to know what the risk is in order to assess your chances.....

If you're trying to hide something you're trying to get over on someone unfairly.......If you're that unsure of your skills you should negotiate better odds (games on the wire) rather than trying to take someone....

Just my opinion

McCue Banger McCue
 
What was said before is true....I always got my home room guys/friends back when it comes to road dogs. Before computers and cell phones, you picked up the telephone and called around to the local rooms and asked what was on the grapevine. That's how it was done if you worked in a pool room. Most times I knew a road agent was coming before they walked in the door, because someone from another room called me.

the whole thing about not saying anything is bull. Can you imagine watching your friend/ steady customer lose without a chance, Then you step up afterward and tell him you knew that was going to happen cause you had a line on the other guy?:D....you better duck!

Now on the flip side.....most road agents that came thru had the sense to come up to the desk and tell me they were looking for a game, and for how much. I never turned them down, and I lost ...ALOT.....but that's how it goes. The whole playing on the lamb, then speeding up for the kill I think is folk lore these days. Like I posted before....I was "ID'd" after being in Florida for 4 months by the internet because I signed up for a pool rooms "newsletter" and they Googled me!:D.....and I'm NOBODY!

Gerry
 
JoeyA said:
OK, the code of conduct for knocking someone's action is written in the pool player's guide book somewhere but I need to freshen up exactly what it says and why.

How is it that it is "improper" to knock another player's action?

Tonight there were some road players in town and they were using their cameras to photograph some of our local players and then were sending the photos to "someone". I assume they were sending them to "someone" so that they could get a line on the players so that they could know who to play and how to play.

I'm serious, how is it that it is not cool to knock a road player's action?

Is it OK to tell your best friends how the roadie plays?
Or even, is it OK to tell your acquaintances what you know about the roadies?
Well what about trying to make sure that the rest of the pool hall gets a fair game from the roadies?

It is obvious that the roadies use technology (cell phones and now camera phones) to acquire a significant edge over the unsuspecting "lambs". I think maybe that "someone" is knocking the local lambs' action. They forward the pictures with names to the "steer horse" and I was just wondering how it is that it is not cool for the locals to wise up the the rest of the locals?

JoeyA
Click to expand...

Hay got that pic ? of the player ?
 
I would think that anyone gullible enough to think they are up to blind challenges for high stakes is begging to get thier bubble popped.

If player "A" has so much ego that he figures he's got the nuts, God bless him.

Player "B" on the road shouldn't feel hurt that the smart players are buzzing. I would think of it as a compliment. That the buzz killed his action though?



I'll bet that the roadie knows exactly where the big fish are. Isn't it sportsman like that the fish know where he is? :)
 
They are probably building a player database to sell to other road players. How much would you pay to have mug shots and bios of the hustlers in various towns?

Capitalism is wonderful isn't it? LOL
 
Reply to both threads

This was originally typed to go in the similar thread a few days ago but it fits this one equally well.

I just read through this thread and I have to say that I feel free to do whatever I am inclined. If the game involves a con, I'll bust it wide open just for grins if I am in the mood. The visitor(s) were trying to run a scam, they weren't as slick as they thought they were, tough patooty! I might sit back and watch it too, I don't feel any obligation either way unless a real friend is involved.

On the other hand if a player or players come into a place and say that they play a little pool and are looking for a
game without trying a con it doesn't matter who they are I will wait and see what happens. For one thing the local who would get his butt kicked seven ways from sunday if he knew who he was playing may well give the road player a hell of a game. I will warn a real friend if he is tangling with a chainsaw for more dollars than he should if I get a chance but like others have commented about themselves, I have very few real friends.

Most people gambling aren't wet behind the ears and those that are will have to pay their tuition to learn sooner or later anyway.

Hu
 
JimBo said:
How would you know how the person plays if you don't know them, and if you do know who they are then what kind of road player are they??

JoeyA wrote: Maybe you have never seen a particular player but you knew different information about them such as: If you heard that "so and so" was playing Too Tall Paul (at another pool hall) and you knew TTP's speed and found out that TTP broke even playing with so and so, you could easily know that person's speed and physical desription. You may have also heard that "So and so" robbed another local lamb playing even when TTP gives the lamb the 6 ball. I think that pretty much tells the story of what kind of road player they are.


JIMbo >
But back to your question, first and foremost your loyalty should be to your friends and home room guys, unless of course you hate their guts.

JoeyA wrote:
I guess that pretty much leaves open most anyone at my pool hall as I couldn't think of a person that I hate except maybe the terroists killing our people.


Now if 2 guys I know equally are matching up I stay out of it unless I like one better or I'm asked straight up by both. Keep in mind some guys aren't lock artists or whimps and may just want some tough action.

Jim
Click to expand...

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
I wonder if such a database would increase action or decrease action?
JoeyA

BillyKoda said:
They are probably building a player database to sell to other road players. How much would you pay to have mug shots and bios of the hustlers in various towns?

Capitalism is wonderful isn't it? LOL
Click to expand...
 
I think it would be riddled with errors

Joey,

I don't know if such a database would make any difference in action although I would think that in theory it would increase action.

I also think that it is unlikely to be well researched and would be riddled with errors. It would please me mightily to be included in such a database along with my speed on a bad night! :D

Hu


JoeyA said:
I wonder if such a database would increase action or decrease action?
JoeyA
Click to expand...
 
Knocking. What mentality?

It depends on whether you have a huster's mentality or a square-johns. A hustler is looking to create action, ALLOW action, and WIN MONEY. If you are hanging in the poolroom with a hustler's mentality then you should learn to hate the knockers and the mother hens that run around looking to "protect" their flock. If on the other hand you want to make sure that every game is exactly even, and take it personal when you see someone going "off," why did you pick a poolroom to spend your time in the first place?
When I was coming up, knocking was a dangerous profession. If a player came around that I knew and nobody else did, it was professional courtesy to keep your mouth shut and let grown men take care of themselves. The pluses for this type of behavior was many; you could bet on the side, you could discreetly ask the player for a piece of his action, you could ask for a consideration bite after the player won. By keeping the player anonymous, you could take him to other spots and win more money. If you had a treacherous nature, as some did then, after accumulating trust by keeping silent you could later steer the player into a game where he couldnt win. If players knew they could go places and get action and not get knocked, this encouraged other players, some not so good, to come around and want to play in your place. This made for an action spot where everybody had a chance to make money. In Bensingers, and Detroit's Rack and Cue, knockers were looked upon as pariahs and were always at risk for physical violence.
Example: I brought Jack Cooney to the Black South and West Side poolrooms to play. There were several players in each room that knew Cooney. None said a word. However, after Jack took each joint off, they all came around with their hands out and all received fair consideration. I always thought that you went to a poolroom to play, gamble or compete. Knocking does nothing to further those concepts.

the Beard
 
like others have said, let them play unless a friend of yours is getting robbed.

DO you really need to tell a very goood player how good another player is? or should he be able to tell for himself?


People are too nosy imo.

Railbirds stink. Protecting friends is a must. but Yapping to seem "in the know" should be a punishable offense.
 
My point exactly

degenrat said:
...People are too nosy imo... Railbirds stink... but Yapping to seem "in the know" should be a punishable offense.
Click to expand...

"To seem in the know," is usually the motivation for knocking. But think about it, those that do that on a regular basis, aren't they the same guys in the pool room that never play anybody and wouldn't bet fat meat is greasy?!

the Beard
 
When 2 people gamble that's an agreement between them and nobody else. People gamble because they want to, they aren't forced into and don't need to be protected from the big bad road hustler wolf.

I stopped going to an establishment where the staff would regularly warn people against playing me for money. I guess they felt the money would be better off in thier video lottery terminals.
 
Welcome to the seedy underbelly of the marriage of pool and gambling!

Freddy has been around this behavior for more than 35 years now and is used to the cutthroat nature of the business.

He has been down-and-out, broke and looking for his next meal, so his mentality is to gravitate towards the maximum score. My interpretation of his work-around of morality is that he feels that if anyone is stupid enough to gamble and risk their money, then they actually DESERVE to lose their cash. He feels that if they are gambling, then any method available to get their cash (and all of it) is allowable.

I guess I have to agree... since they would be happy to pocket someone else's money if they won.

But... I just get a bad taste in my mouth for the sneaking around, "being in the know" bullcrap. I always thought that a great way to get action (albiet tough action) was to walk into a room and tell everyone that you were the best and were there to kick everyones' butts. Period. Don't cry when you lose your rent money, 'cause I told you up front I was the best.

Doesn't that bring people to your table to gamble in droves?
 
Last edited:
Seems people scare off easier these days though so knocking is even worse.

My friend just went to Vegas for some action. Right after he gets there, a guy walks up to him and asks if he wants to gamble nine ball.

My friend says how about 20 a game?

The guy goes to get his cue but then comes back and says "My buddy says I can't play you" and they never ended up playing.

Six months before that, my friend and his dad drove two hours for a 500/set match he was supposed to play with a good player (he entered one of the ring bank games at DCC) and when he gets there, the guy says he has changed his mind and doesn't want to play.

Pretty lame. Did this stuff happen in big action rooms without the guy backing out having to pay some sort of I'm-a-nit-fee?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top