Eyes were opened tonight.

[Masayoshi]

Thanks Satman ... so are these merely terms used to describe player level or is there some formal ranking system acknowledged? I mean do you have to press your forearms against steaming hot 8 balls and 9 balls or something.

I don't think there's any formal rating here, you just get the title based on tournament finishes or reputation. For example, I have played plenty of Master level players in tournaments at Hardtimes and can't ever recall having a 3 pack put on me. I would say most of the guys that I know that are on the list are solid A to shortstop.

 

[3andstop]

I don't think there's any formal rating here, you just get the title based on tournament finishes or reputation. For example, I have played plenty of Master level players in tournaments at Hardtimes and can't ever recall having a 3 pack put on me. I would say most of the guys that I know that are on the list are solid A to shortstop.

Gotcha .. thanks! :thumbup:

 

[RoryHunt]

There was a chess player being interviewed and he said that players should do two things to get better.

1) Practice a lot.

2) Play stronger players.

Then that is what I am going to do.

 

[justadub]

Played against a "master" level BCA'er in nine ball. I am dogsh!t at pool is all that I figured out after tonight.

I don't get to play against anything that is real competition at all, so when I do, I was excited. I got thumped.

At least I learned that after a year of playing, I have a long road ahead of me.

I'm in a similar boat as you, the one-year of playing and all. I haven't had the opportunity to get schooled at the level that you recently did, but it happens enough to me with players who aren't even at the "master" level, so I understand how you're feelling VERY WELL.

It sure is cool to watch a player leave the cue ball exactly where he wants, through traffic and off mulitple rails. Yup, I too am dogs!t at pool, and loving every minute of it. Gonna play more, practice more, and learn more. And no doubt get beat A LOT more, and that is cool. This is that much fun.

Thanks for the post. It stuck with me quite well this morning.

 

[pwd72s]

Kinda, only Master division, not Grand Master. Like I said it was an eye opening experience, but the guy was cool. The shape he was getting was what was really amazing to me. Potting is potting, but he was really moving on that table.

:thumbup:

My "Honorary Nephew" finished 5th in that challange. Pool WAS his total life from an early age. But, he's 33 now, married, with a 1 year old daughter. Priorities change...perhaps as they should for those who'll never reach top pro level. Pool is a grand game, but it's a damned tough game to make a living at.

So..keep it fun! Keep striving for improvement. There's the joy...:grin:

 

[Beer:30]

There was a chess player being interviewed and he said that players should do two things to get better.

1) Practice a lot.

2) Play stronger players.

I like the chess analogies but to move in chess you just pick up a piece and put it down where you want it. In pool after deciding your move you've got to execute as well. I don't execute near as well as I can pick my move.

I have a hard time finding people better than myself to play. Not that I am that good just not many good players around where I shoot. When I get drowned in the realization of my shortcomings I don't despair. I just think about how much better of a banger I am than all the other bangers. I feel like a outcast from a civilized society who found a tribe of heathens that I use my pool knowledge to scare the locals into thinking I am a pool god. I clumsily use the knowledge of a good game to wow them and keep them cowed. They never question my ability because my four ball run seems so unachievable. Am I content ruling the swine or should I actually face the chance of defeat? Or maybe I should quit hustling lunch money at the boys and girls club. Decisions.

 

[pooltchr]

You should be happy to have had this epiphany after only one year of play....some go on for YEARS thinking that they play 3+ balls better than they really do....if not even worse.

After experiencing this know that even your "Master" level opponent has a LONG WAY TO GO also.

For whatever reason Pool is one of those things that participants judge their skills very bad, and to make matters worse they judge their games UP instead of down.

Whats funny is that most of the ones that judge their games up a few balls will not get in the box with an opponent that actually plays that speed.


I find the best rule for a progressing player (EVERYONE, even EFFREN as we are all progressing in some way/shape/form) is:

DO NOT JUDGE THY SPEED AND SKILL, that leads to dream land.
ONE MUST KNOW THY SPEED AND SKILL, that leads to the promised land.


Fact is you can never fix anything or better anything if you have a false sense of what is right and wrong. It's similar to good old fashioned corrective criticism, tho meant to be helpful from the informed...most of the recievers of it get defensive or upset as they feel judged or knocked down....NOT SO, it was only meant to inform and help better yourself!


I commend you for actually admitting it here (greenie for you my man!), as you could have pulled out the excuse list as to why you lost as many do....that never helps. You have done nothing short of removing one of the biggest obstacles to progression in this game we all love.




congratulations,:thumbup:
Grey Ghost

Good post. To put it a little more simply, You have to know where you are, before you can begin the journey to where you want to be.

Steve

 

[Tominator]

I like the chess analogies but to move in chess you just pick up a piece and put it down where you want it. In pool after deciding your move you've got to execute as well. I don't execute near as well as I can pick my move.

Finally someone who understands the problem with chess and pool analogies

 

[poolpro]

Finally someone who understands the problem with chess and pool analogies

Yep! I often use chess analogies. Pool can be very chess-like, but I like to make this point clear by saying " No one sits at home and just practices moving chess pieces around the board!"

I love to teach and discuss strategy, but always make it clear that you MUST have a plan, BUT having a plan is only part of the deal. You have to have planning AND execution!

 

[greyghost]

Yep! I often use chess analogies. Pool can be very chess-like, but I like to make this point clear by saying " No one sits at home and just practices moving chess pieces around the board!"

I love to teach and discuss strategy, but always make it clear that you MUST have a plan, BUT having a plan is only part of the deal. You have to have planning AND execution!

Thats a good point, reminds me of something my uncle used to say about fighting....

"everyone has a plan untill they get hit"


not only do you have to decide on the correct strategy and have your plan and the ability to execute it....you must also have the mental fortitude to keep focus if you encounter some difficulty such as the dreaded electric chair lol.

Thats why many people won't bet anything but cheap in one pocket....they can get all hot, and then you bust them up with lock tight defense and pretty soon they can't make the putt 3ft from the hole...it can make you feel cold and frozen at the joints...start feeling like your shaking, praying that your nerves don't leave your stroke dead in the water.

No matter what plan you have, or how good your execution is ingrained....if the mind falls apart the body follows.


HEAD ON! APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD! lol


-Grey Ghost-

 

[rackmsuckr]

Rory, don't worry. Just remember that the Shane Van Boening's and Efren's of this world all started out exactly where you are now. It's a matter of progression; you must learn to walk before you can run (the table :grin

It's much easier to progress faster now, what with the live streaming with audio commentary, youtube vids and Accustats, books and internet articles. Absorb as much as you can and get your fundamentals right. It might be a good time to find a coach who cannot only teach you the mechanics, but keep your head right and manage your expectations.

Work on playing patterns and really think position for your third ball. Learn how to use the tangent line to figure out if you are going to scratch and how to bust out trouble balls. Watch what players (good or bad) do with ball in hand and see if it is what you would do and learn from it. Pick the brains of everyone better and you can pick up tidbits that are solid that you can fit into your knowledge bank.

But there is no substitute for hard practice and paying your dues. Get into small weekly tournaments and set a small goal for yourself...to win your first match or win 2, and so on. Or just to make 4 balls in a row.

What you have is something no one else can give you, and that is desire. Desire to learn and desire to win. Those 2 can make you into a great champion. A year is nothing in a pool player's development. Enjoy your ride.

 

[Brian in VA]

You should be happy to have had this epiphany after only one year of play....some go on for YEARS thinking that they play 3+ balls better than they really do....if not even worse.

After experiencing this know that even your "Master" level opponent has a LONG WAY TO GO also.

For whatever reason Pool is one of those things that participants judge their skills very bad, and to make matters worse they judge their games UP instead of down.

Whats funny is that most of the ones that judge their games up a few balls will not get in the box with an opponent that actually plays that speed.


I find the best rule for a progressing player (EVERYONE, even EFFREN as we are all progressing in some way/shape/form) is:

DO NOT JUDGE THY SPEED AND SKILL, that leads to dream land.
ONE MUST KNOW THY SPEED AND SKILL, that leads to the promised land.


Fact is you can never fix anything or better anything if you have a false sense of what is right and wrong. It's similar to good old fashioned corrective criticism, tho meant to be helpful from the informed...most of the recievers of it get defensive or upset as they feel judged or knocked down....NOT SO, it was only meant to inform and help better yourself!


I commend you for actually admitting it here (greenie for you my man!), as you could have pulled out the excuse list as to why you lost as many do....that never helps. You have done nothing short of removing one of the biggest obstacles to progression in this game we all love.




congratulations,:thumbup:
Grey Ghost

Ghost, this may be one of the best posts I've read here in 5 years! Well said, sir! Greenie to you!

Brian in VA

 

[greyghost]

Ghost, this may be one of the best posts I've read here in 5 years! Well said, sir! Greenie to you!

Brian in VA

Thanks very much for the compliment, i very much enjoy thinking/discussing these kind of ideas with others and learning from them also.

Billiards is such a unique game on a personal level, especially in the development of the game at player must go through to master all sorts of knowledge, physical skill, and mental fortitude to mention a few key elements.

Since we all play on the same field basically, we have a tendency to compare our games to the likes of others...and when i say compared, i mean very loosely compared. The only thing that I can see being the cause of this is pride and vanity.

No one wants to be judged especially judged to be inferior in some way, much less feel that way. So players pull sort of that "Fake it till you make it attitude" which in certain ways can be useful to your development as its better to feel/think well about what you can do as opposed to being negative and beating yourself up.

Most players are mostly self taught, while many got some info from knowledgable people you still have to put the puzzle together yourself....

So its honestly completely understandable that we can have a tendency to overrate our skills, I liken it to how women compare themselves to each other constantly.

After all thats why I was completely genuine in my comment complimenting the OP on his epiphany....its a big step when someone can look at themselves and just be honest especially public honesty.

You don't have to be honest in the form of looking in the mirror and saying OK I REALLY DO SUCK AT THIS GAME....don't judge yourself in a good or bad way, just simply know your strengths and more importantly know the areas that you need to develop.

Its an equal game and it doesn't matter if what your speed is, or how you compare to others....the beauty of it is that every one of us could go as far as we want in the game IF we put in the work.

If you can't put in the work to be a champ then thats ok, not everyone can shoot pool for a living...just be as best as you can and be happy with the accomplishments you have made for many players probably even got as far as you did.

I like to think of the game as having more camaraderie, players should help each other out more instead of woofing. The more people that learn to play properly the bigger the industry gets and the better the chances of some of us being able to live a life playing the game that we all enjoy and dream about.

thanks again,
Grey Ghost

 

[Cornerman]

I like the chess analogies but to move in chess you just pick up a piece and put it down where you want it. In pool after deciding your move you've got to execute as well. I don't execute near as well as I can pick my move.

Finally someone who understands the problem with chess and pool analogies

Count me in on that, as I've been saying this for years. This is why I scoff every time someone says that pool is a mental game. No, chess is a mental game. You don't actually have to touch the pieces to play chess at the lowest to the highest level.

People seem to forget that you actually have to do physical execution in pool and be damned good at it before you can even consider the mental aspect.

Fred

 

[pooltchr]

People seem to forget that you actually have to do physical execution in pool and be damned good at it before you can even consider the mental aspect.

Fred

Fred, I'm usually right with you on most subjects, but I question this comment. I teach players at all levels, and I think everyone benefits from working on their mental processes. Whether it is developing visualization skills, proper mental attitude, or even basic strategy, every player who gets into competition can benefit from these things.

I captain two 8-ball teams, and with the low skill level players, I often tell them how to think about moving their balls toward the pockets. This is a strategy that can help those without precision pocketing skills win games.

I think we all need to consider the mental aspect, although I believe that it may become a bigger part of the game as one's skill level increases. Execution is important, of course, but so is the proper mindset, regardless of your skill level.

Steve

 

[Testa]

It's scary isn't it? And it gets even worse when you watch an actual pro. Closest I ever came was watching Mike Dechaine play. Kinda spooky. The main thing about seeing a pro is not that he does shots you never could or plays impossible shape. It's not even that they don't miss. It's the consistency. You just don't get turns at the table. They run one, two, three, four racks and you just sit there and never get to show your skills. And if you do play, and god forbid don't get out of the rack, you know you're all done.

I have to agree 100% with CreeDo especially about Mike Dechaine - I played him in a Joss Event and on the rare occasion I got to the table you question yourself on routine outs. Its a very humbling thing to play someone of that caliber. But the best part of it is seeing how relaxed and easy they make it look - shows you its possible to reach that level.

 

[LAMas]

here is usually the progression of realization for players not necessarily aware of how good players can be..

Beginner plays APA level 6-7 - "holy shit, I'm dogshit... I've got a long way to go"

APA level 6-7 plays BCA master - "holy shit, I'm dogshit... I've got a long way to go"

BCA Master plays BCA Non-pro Grandmaster - "holy shit, I'm dogshit... I've got a long way to go"

BCA Grandmaster plays Pro (Bartram-level) - "holy shit, I'm dogshit... I've got a long way to go"

Pro plays Top Pro (Souquet, SVB, Orcullo, etc.) - "holy shit, I'm dogshit... I've got a long way to go"

Souquet, SVB, Orcullo, etc. plays Lee Van Corteza - "holy shit, I'm dogshit... I've got a long way to go"

 

[LAMas]

I don't think there's any formal rating here, you just get the title based on tournament finishes or reputation. For example, I have played plenty of Master level players in tournaments at Hardtimes and can't ever recall having a 3 pack put on me. I would say most of the guys that I know that are on the list are solid A to shortstop.

If you are talkin bout the "Ernesto's 4 inch pockets" in the Tournament Room there, I don't remember seeing Lee Van Corteza run a 3 pack there either.

 

[stljohnny]

There are soooo many things I agree with in this thread.

I, too, get to be reminded of just where I am from time to time when I play people I know are a few levels above me. We always play friendly, but it's frustrating because I know I play better - but there's some form of 'i really wanna prove myself to this person' that ends up cancelling out the last 2 months of practice. :/

As it has been said here before, consistency is key - and i think that requires on a strong mental game; and for people that don't get to play really strong players often it's tough to build a strong mental game.

 

[CreeDo]

Testa, you know what I'm saying it sounds like.

Steve, sorry to jump in, but I think you're taking it wrong. I liked cornerman's point there and I don't think he made it to knock the value of instruction or minimize the mental aspect. It's just that it can only take you so far. I guess it rings especially true for me because I feel like I know 99% of the mental stuff... from what english to use to how to stay focused while stuck in the chair... but my physical execution is LIGHT YEARS from catching up.

That's probably the gist of what he's saying. There are a million guys like me that can tell you all about throw or pick out the right cueball route, but can't string more than a couple of racks. There are very few guys that shoot perfectly straight and consistently, and just need that missing knowledge to go pro.