Fair? No way to sell a cue!
- Thread starter VonRhett
- Start date
Well AZB members, let's write the "AZB Raffle" Constitution. We are Americans damn it, let's put it down in words and regulate this thing.
I nominate myself for "C.R.O" Cheif Raffle Officer. =)
1. The owner or the person conducting the Raffle cannot be a participant in the Raffle. (He/She cannot buy slot(s) for himself/herself or his/her friends, relatives, and or "acquaintances")
2. Only registered AZbilliards.com members with at least (1) I-Trader points as well as GREEN positive reps can participate.
3. The Drawing of the raffle number shall be decided by a State Lottery with at least a day in advance to notify members which date and which Lottery to expect. Other methods may be used, but all the participants must agree; therefore being justified and fair to all.
4. If there are not enough participants, the person(s) operating the raffle must either choose to continue with the raffle or must refund all the participant(s)' slot payment(s).
5. The winner of the raflle must recieve the item(s) within a reasonable time depending on the type of shipping used. The item(s) shall be recieved within the maxium 14 days if the item(s) is shipped within North America. The item(s) must be recieved within a maximum of 30 days if the item(s) is shipped internationally.
All you smart people out there, please feel free to add or edit my Rough Draft of the Raffle Constitution.
I nominate myself for "C.R.O" Cheif Raffle Officer. =)
1. The owner or the person conducting the Raffle cannot be a participant in the Raffle. (He/She cannot buy slot(s) for himself/herself or his/her friends, relatives, and or "acquaintances")
2. Only registered AZbilliards.com members with at least (1) I-Trader points as well as GREEN positive reps can participate.
3. The Drawing of the raffle number shall be decided by a State Lottery with at least a day in advance to notify members which date and which Lottery to expect. Other methods may be used, but all the participants must agree; therefore being justified and fair to all.
4. If there are not enough participants, the person(s) operating the raffle must either choose to continue with the raffle or must refund all the participant(s)' slot payment(s).
5. The winner of the raflle must recieve the item(s) within a reasonable time depending on the type of shipping used. The item(s) shall be recieved within the maxium 14 days if the item(s) is shipped within North America. The item(s) must be recieved within a maximum of 30 days if the item(s) is shipped internationally.
All you smart people out there, please feel free to add or edit my Rough Draft of the Raffle Constitution.
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nwtflogan said:
Okay, that's good. I suggest following the Raffle Constitution if anyone decides to start a new raffle. I believe these rules will be fair for everyone and no confusion.
Let me know what you think.
I speak the truth and that's all I know.
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You Should Switch to the Other Door
If Monty offers the switch you should take it. Your door has a 1/3 chance of having the prize while the other door now has a 2/3 chance.
Usually this answer sets off a lot of argument.
If Monty offers the switch you should take it. Your door has a 1/3 chance of having the prize while the other door now has a 2/3 chance.
Usually this answer sets off a lot of argument.
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I Just Don't Get It
I'm feeling really dense here. I see why people care how many tickets are are sold and how much a ticket is. I see why people care how the number is drawn.
But, for the life of me, I don't see why anybody cares who buys the tickets. Do we care who buys state lottery tickets? Do we care who buys tickets in that parade of cue raffles at the BCA tournament in Vegas every year? What's with this "only AZ'ers, with positive feedback, who go to church, don't swear, and wear boxers instead of briefs ..."?
I'm feeling really dense here. I see why people care how many tickets are are sold and how much a ticket is. I see why people care how the number is drawn.
But, for the life of me, I don't see why anybody cares who buys the tickets. Do we care who buys state lottery tickets? Do we care who buys tickets in that parade of cue raffles at the BCA tournament in Vegas every year? What's with this "only AZ'ers, with positive feedback, who go to church, don't swear, and wear boxers instead of briefs ..."?
oneballeddie said:
I will chime in again...because it was my raffle that started this whole controversy. I've had four successful raffles. I've never seen a written rule as to who could or could not participate in a raffle.
My first raffle had six spots taken by "friends" of mine...AZ member Highlanduh won the raffle.
My second raffle had twelve spots taken by "friends" of mine...AZ member Showtruck2020 won the raffle.
My third raffle had eight spots taken by "friends" of mine...Yes, a "friend" of mine won the raffle.
My fourth raffle had three spots taken by "friends" of mine...AZ member JimBC won the raffle.
My "friend" who won the third raffle also participated in the second and fourth raffles with the same numbers picked in each of the three. (Her lucky numbers)...There was no "Tom Foolery" going on in any of my raffles.
As for the conspiracy theorists...(and there have been many) all with their own little scenarios of how someone could cheat the system, were going way out on a limb. Examples being, buying so many spots in your own raffle under a ficticous name and having such and such percentage of winning your own raffle. It's all bullsh*t in my opinion. Anyone who decides to participate in a raffle has to ask themselves one question. Is the price per slot worth the risk? If it is...buy a spot. If not...don't. You will still have the same chance of winning...1 in 42. Example, JForney36 bought a whole bunch of spots in a raffle for a Tascarella...the gamble paid off, he won. He bought eleven spots in my raffle...the gamble didn't pay off, he lost. Now if that was me buying the last eleven spots in my own raffle...you people would of had a fit. The simple truth is this...if I have a cue worth $4200 and I decide to raffle it with 42 spots at $100 each, and I buy 21 spots for myself and sell the other 21...I have a 50% chance of winning but I also have a 50% chance of losing...and therefore I would have to give a $4200 cue to someone for the $2100 I collected in the raffle. I don't know about you, but that is not a gamble I'm willing to take. As for the people who think only AZ members should be able to participate in these raffles, I can understand your position...although I disagree with it. To me, it doesn't matter who buys the spots...as long as they're filled. As for those who keep pounding home the fact that these raffles are "illegal"...maybe, but I'm sure the authorities have better things to do than to worry about someone trying to make a few dollars by selling a cue.
he's actually right,if you are content with the total price of the raffle tickets being a fair value for the cue,then it doesn't matter who buys the tickets.
this is only an example and is not inteded to point anyone's pricing out.i see the other guy's point in that if the cue is worth say $3000 and the raffle tickets add up to $4000 then you can buy 25% of you own raffle and have a 25% free roll to keep the cue and can't lose anything,but that doesn't really matter.b/c they consented to the value of the cue to start.the rafflers just need to be careful about getting inot a raffle where the raffle tickets far exceed the actual value of the cue.if the raffle tickets add up to more than $100 or so more than the value of the cue,then pass on it and there will be no problems.
most people here are pretty knowledgeable about the value of cues so it should be pretty easy to pass on the ones that are out of line.
" Cue Detectives"
I was talking to Bill Schick a couple of weeks ago about a cue that some people on this forum had questions about,and he refered to them as the
" Cue Detectives". Don't get me wrong everyone has the right and frankly the obligation to ask any questions that might be relevant. But in this case we have " Raffle Police" are these the people who are going to dictate how the raffles should be run? I am going to think about this more and come back with my own thread. After working my tail off for a few days and running what I think was a very clean raffle. I earned every dime. I got about $640 and after paypay and shipping will end up with $600, which is what I would have sold it for with alot less work. So did I hurt my Rep. I hope not I was just trying to have a little fun a make it interesting for everyone involved.Who are the people who are going to tell me how to do it if I decide to do it again?
TOMMIE
I was talking to Bill Schick a couple of weeks ago about a cue that some people on this forum had questions about,and he refered to them as the
" Cue Detectives". Don't get me wrong everyone has the right and frankly the obligation to ask any questions that might be relevant. But in this case we have " Raffle Police" are these the people who are going to dictate how the raffles should be run? I am going to think about this more and come back with my own thread. After working my tail off for a few days and running what I think was a very clean raffle. I earned every dime. I got about $640 and after paypay and shipping will end up with $600, which is what I would have sold it for with alot less work. So did I hurt my Rep. I hope not I was just trying to have a little fun a make it interesting for everyone involved.Who are the people who are going to tell me how to do it if I decide to do it again?
TOMMIE
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Yes, I care. If an illegal immigrant buys a State Lottery ticket and wins, he gets to go on TV and spin that big ole Money Wheel. Heck, i'll be pisted off. That should be ME spinning it! Wheee!!
I'd be wasting a few bucks, getting my hopes up scanning the numbers, and to have some guy that doesn't deserves it nor doesn't follow the rules win it is just Madness!
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Duce said:
We're not talking about state lottery tickets...we're talking about a cue raffle...focus people...focus...
WHAT RULES? No body informed me or listed any rules when I listed my raffle.If there is any I apoligize and will follow them to the tee, but not some opinions that are just theirs.Duce said:
TOMMIE
tommie1351 said:
I suggested a common rule in order to protect the members of the communiity. We should set a "standard" in which how the fundamentals of the raffle should be. Nothing specific, but just general rules that can help govern and or at least try to eliminate the possibility of cheating, corruption, and tampering.
If I wanted to, I could make up names to put on my raffle list.
1. Duce
2. Duce's Neighbor "johnny"
3. Duce's Best friend "Eddie"
4. Duce's Non-AZB acquaintance
5. Duce's Wife (If I get drunk enough one day)
6. Cocobolo dude
7. XYZCues94
8. ABCmasterx4
9. BigWangChung
10. Qfamous123
______________________________________________________
Now you can see that 50% chance that Duce can win, and theoretically, Duce doesn't have to pay himself. He can get the money and keep the cue.
Even if the State Lottery is used, chance is chance.Probability is Probability. These are two different things.
tommie1351 said:
These aren't rules that are enforced yet.
These are just my suggestions and what I THINK people should do in order to not have problems with the raffles.
You don't have to follow them, if you feel that these ideas are false and bad. You don't have to follow any rules if you don't want to.
I am just giving a general guideline to protect oneself as well as others.
just talking
TOMMIE
Ok what if Cocobolo dude wins and Duce doesn't get sh&*t. He lost his cue for half the worth.Duce said:I suggested a common rule in order to protect the members of the communiity. We should set a "standard" in which how the fundamentals of the raffle should be. Nothing specific, but just general rules that can help govern and or at least try to eliminate the possibility of cheating, corruption, and tampering.
If I wanted to, I could make up names to put on my raffle list.
1. Duce
2. Duce's Neighbor "johnny"
3. Duce's Best friend "Eddie"
4. Duce's Non-AZB acquaintance
5. Duce's Wife (If I get drunk enough one day)
6. Cocobolo dude
7. XYZCues94
8. ABCmasterx4
9. BigWangChung
10. Qfamous123
______________________________________________________
Now you can see that 50% chance that Duce can win, and theoretically, Duce doesn't have to pay himself. He can get the money and keep the cue.
Even if the State Lottery is used, chance is chance.Probability is Probability. These are two different things.
TOMMIE
tommie1351 said:
Refer to rule Amendment 4:
4. If there are not enough participants, the person(s) operating the raffle must either choose to continue with the raffle or must refund all the participant(s)' slot payment(s).
DUCE can refund all the participant(s) money and doesn't lose Anything.
What are the probability that Cocobolo dude wins?
1 out of 10 = 10%
Duce's probability of winning is:
5 out of 10 = 50%
<<<<POWNED>>>
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That's why the person doing the Raffle cannot participate, as well as his unknown "friends."
Refer to Amendment 1 in the Raffle Constitution:
1. The owner or the person conducting the Raffle cannot be a participant in the Raffle. (He/She cannot buy slot(s) for himself/herself or his/her friends, relatives, and or "acquaintances")
Again, these "rules" are just my suggestion. I just made them off the top of my head because of the Raffle conspiracy.
It was created if I was doing or participating in a Raffle, I would think we all can agree to the fundamental rules. You don't have to follow them..just my idea.
My Suggestion on how to protect yourself and each other: Inspite of this "raffle conspiracy/corruption"
My previous Post on the suggested "Rules" You don't have to agree nor follow them: But here they are.
Refer to Amendment 1 in the Raffle Constitution:
1. The owner or the person conducting the Raffle cannot be a participant in the Raffle. (He/She cannot buy slot(s) for himself/herself or his/her friends, relatives, and or "acquaintances")
Again, these "rules" are just my suggestion. I just made them off the top of my head because of the Raffle conspiracy.
It was created if I was doing or participating in a Raffle, I would think we all can agree to the fundamental rules. You don't have to follow them..just my idea.
My Suggestion on how to protect yourself and each other: Inspite of this "raffle conspiracy/corruption"
My previous Post on the suggested "Rules" You don't have to agree nor follow them: But here they are.
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math
TOMMIE
You seem like a very intelligent person, but I would love to gamble with you.The math on your example is no 10% and 50%. It is 50-50 that Duce wins or looses. I could go alnight and I know neither of us will change their mind. I just know the raffle I ran was clean and a VERY good man won. Kevin Lindstrom is one of the most respected members of our little group. The only thing is it's that little anymore. I just wish that everything we do here wasn't so contraversatble. Excuss the spelling,I'm getting tired. Like I said I will continue this later.Duce said:
TOMMIE
tommie1351 said:
Im pretty intelligent, IMO. I don't gamble.
Maybe the word probability and odds I mixed up.
I'll just deal with chance and odds, then.
50/50 chance Cocobolo will win and has the odds of 1 to 10.
50/50 chance Duce will win and has the odds of 5 to 10 (which is 1 to 2)
I am an Asian-American by the way, I was born to do math.
I don't know anyone involved so that is why I don't have a view. I just wanted to post up a suggestion upon rule, and I believe that if people are willing to follow these rules in the future, then I don't think there would an incident such as this one.
It's a free country and people can do whatever they please.
So, again, just an idea. A Suggestion.
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