Fair? No way to sell a cue!

[RackRunner]

So if I offer a great deal in a raffle and as soon as I post it 20 of the 42 slots are filled by "friends", it is OK ? This is the problem. There is no one posting how they love the cue they won, or offering it for sale. One or all of the unknown participants could be the raffle operator himself, pocketing the money and keeping the cue if one his "friends" win.

I'll chime in on this one being it's my raffle that is in question. As stated earlier in my raffle post. I have never bought a spot in my own raffle, however if I had a cue worth $4200 and sold 42 spots at $100 each and bought 21 spots for myself, yes I would have a 50% chance of winning but I would also have a 50% chance of losing and then I would have to give someone a $4200 cue for the $2100 I collected by selling 21 spots. Sorry folks...ain't going to happen. I have held three successful raffles, the first raffle I had six spots taken by "friends" of mine and AZ member Highlanduh won the raffle. The second raffle I had twelve spots taken by "friends" of mine and AZ member Showtruck2020 won the raffle. The third raffle I had eight spots taken by "friends" of mine, and yes...someone I know won the raffle. Did she cheat any of you participants out of your money? No...she picked the winning number, plain and simple. So unless someone can figure out how to cheat the Powerball and pick the red ball number everytime I see no reason for this thread to be posted in the first place. JMO...

 

[Danktrees]

regarding cues being marked up in raffles...it was discussed before, when u only send small amounts of money, paypal actually ends up charging more to 3%. i think it ended up being around 6% so when u add everything up the money after fees are charged is in line with what the cue is worth or asked for in an outright sale. of course there are exceptions and maybe some are overpriced but generally speaking people tend to charge like 50-200 extra due to the extra fees and time involved in setting up a raffle.

in the end i think the only one that wins is paypal lol

 

[mullyman]

Yes that is OK.

If my number is called, then the "raffler" collected roughly half of what they could have if they had opened up all of the slots. It is a gamble.

Again, if my number is called I get the cue. If my number is not called someone else gets it.

So let's say the cue is a thousand dollars and there are 10 slots. The owner buys up 5 of them and collects 500 from AZBer's. His number hits, he pockets 500 bucks, keeps the cue and opens it up for another raffle. Sorry, in my opinion, if you're going to raffle something off then you shouldn't be buying slots for yourself or letting your friends off of AZB buy them up. The entire point of the raffle here, although there are no set guidelines, is to give fellow AZBer's a chance to win something at a really good price and allowing the owner to get rid of their merchandise at a price they want to get for it.

I'm also not fond of the people that win a 5 thousand dollar cue for 50 bucks then turn around and try to get rid of it for full profit. Yes, I know, it's their cue to do what they want with it, all I'm saying is that there are plenty of people out there that don't have the money to afford something like that and they joined in for the chance to own a high end cue.

As far as myself is concerned, I have no interest in getting involved in a raffle, I never win that type of shit. So, it has no bearing on me whatsoever what anyone does. These are just my thoughts on the subject.
MULLY

 

[cubswin]

I'm also not fond of the people that win a 5 thousand dollar cue for 50 bucks then turn around and try to get rid of it for full profit.
MULLY

That is the only reason I ever buy a spot.....I have no use for a high cue (other than maybe a hercek or searing) so I'd be flipping it next day.

 

[mullyman]

That is the only reason I ever buy a spot.....I have no use for a high cue (other than maybe a hercek or searing) so I'd be flipping it next day.

Well, that is entirely up to you. Like I said, I have nothing invested in these raffles so it really doesn't matter to me what anyone does. It was just my opinion on the subject. If I was raffling a cue off I'd hope the winner would be someone that would get years of use out of it and enjoy showing it off to his/her friends. I guess in my younger years I struggled just to come up with enough to buy a low end cue and would have killed for a chance to get some of the cues I have now at a raffle price. Oh well, like I said, just my opinion.
MULLY

 

[joeboxer]

So let's say the cue is a thousand dollars and there are 10 slots. The owner buys up 5 of them and collects 500 from AZBer's. His number hits, he pockets 500 bucks, keeps the cue and opens it up for another raffle. Sorry, in my opinion, if you're going to raffle something off then you shouldn't be buying slots for yourself or letting your friends off of AZB buy them up. The entire point of the raffle here, although there are no set guidelines, is to give fellow AZBer's a chance to win something at a really good price and allowing the owner to get rid of their merchandise at a price they want to get for it.

I'm also not fond of the people that win a 5 thousand dollar cue for 50 bucks then turn around and try to get rid of it for full profit. Yes, I know, it's their cue to do what they want with it, all I'm saying is that there are plenty of people out there that don't have the money to afford something like that and they joined in for the chance to own a high end cue.

As far as myself is concerned, I have no interest in getting involved in a raffle, I never win that type of shit. So, it has no bearing on me whatsoever what anyone does. These are just my thoughts on the subject.
MULLY

Agreed.............
And i love that avatar..........if had me LMAO....

 

[bigshooter]

Right or wrong, selling spots outside of AZ sucks the fun out of the raffle and will cause certain people to stop participating, IMO.

 

[mullyman]

Agreed.............
And i love that avatar..........if had me LMAO....

Thanks, that was originally an Air Garcia (Jerry Garcia) pic that someone made up. I changed it around a little. hehe!!
MULLY

 

[mullyman]

Right or wrong, selling spots outside of AZ sucks the fun out of the raffle and will cause certain people to stop participating, IMO.

Agreed 110%.
MULLY

 

[nwtflogan]

i agree , if your gonna raffle a cue then the participants should be az members or the seler needs to disclose that he is buying spots for himself or freinds , that way its a little bit more on the up and up, money says there still is no way to fix the raffle if your using ther powerball like most have, just luck!!!!! but open and honest really means alot to....... at least me!!!

 

[mullyman]

i agree , if your gonna raffle a cue then the participants should be az members or the seler needs to disclose that he is buying spots for himself or freinds , that way its a little bit more on the up and up, money says there still is no way to fix the raffle if your using ther powerball like most have, just luck!!!!! but open and honest really means alot to....... at least me!!!

That's fair enough. If the seller is going to buy spots for himself then he should let it be known. It at least gives the people that care about that a chance to decide on if they want to get involved or not. But people off of AZB shouldn't be allowed. If you're going to do that then just put the damn thing up on Ebay.
MULLY

 

[nwtflogan]

Well Off Az Shouldnt Really Matter As Long As The Seller Tells Us All! And If Thats A Problem We Can Drop Out If So Be!!! Justa As Long As We Know Whats Going On!!! Jm Two Cents

 

[Bamacues]

In all events, full disclosure of the rules of the game is what is required.

Going to sell tickets off AZB...say so up front.

Going to keep a share of the tickets for yourself...say so up front

The perception and understanding was that raffles run on AZB were only for AZB members. Anything different from that...say it up front.

In order to play the game, you have to know the rules.

Joe

 

[8-Baller]

So let's say the cue is a thousand dollars and there are 10 slots. The owner buys up 5 of them and collects 500 from AZBer's. His number hits, he pockets 500 bucks, keeps the cue and opens it up for another raffle. Sorry, in my opinion, if you're going to raffle something off then you shouldn't be buying slots for yourself or letting your friends off of AZB buy them up.

Well....let's extend your nice little example here. Let's just say that instead of the owner's number hitting, another AZBer's number hits. Well, guess what? The owner just sold his cue for total proceeds of $500 and takes a $500 wash. At the end of the day....it's all fair....as long as the draw is entirely random and tamperproof.

 

[spanky981]

raffles

1st.. noone forces anyone in buying a raffle ticket. So if the seller is asking too much dont buy one.

2nd. No matter who buys the other slots YOU still have the same chance of winning ,1 out of how many slots for each slot you buy.

3rd. Why does it matter who buys up the other slots AZ or non AZ. Example.. Anyone who sells a cue on this board would sell it to the pool hall buddy first if they could. AZ listings are not exclusive to AZ members.

4th. Dont we have better things to worry about than if a seller takes a chance on his cue. You did and your chances are the same as his unless he can rig the powerball.

Mike

 

[gmcole]

Here's the potential problem. Let's say someone is raffling a case that was in the for sale section for $200 OBO ,however, 42 spots at $10 each= $420!! As soon as 15 spots sell ,the seller could have phantom buyers for the other spots. In the event one of the 15 real spots win= seller got market value. In the event one of the sellers phantom spots win=seller screwed AZers. I think
#1. the combined price of the tckets needs to be close to the real value of the cue or case, otherwise, it seems like the seller is taking advantage of AZers.-At minimum!
#2 Only Azers can buy tickets. Otherwise do a raffle at your pool hall. I just won a cue in a raffle. What I mean is, the ticket I bought won. A freind of mine saw it on Az and asked me to buy a couple tickets for him.
#3 An unedited post by the seller confirming the exact raffle date being used must be posted(prior to the raffle date) as well as PMs to the participants.
Just my 2 cents-jeff

 

[AuntyDan]

it dosent change a thing, your chances are the same no matter what, if 25% of the spots are "undercover" for lack of a better word, are owned by the owner of the cue, he has a 1 in 4 shot of keeping the cue, but that dosent change the value of the othere spots

No, it doesn't change the odds or the value, but it does change the purpose of the raffle. Any raffle is a form of gambling, but there is a distinction between gambling with a set of random people one of whom is guaranteed to win the prize and the owner is guaranteed the money, and gambling with an individual where you might win the prize or they might win your money.

You might as well just say "F@&#ing flip for it" and be done with it. (I forgot, you'd probably be OK doing that!)

What I dont understand is why people particapate in raffels where the cue is 25% higher than the market price is.

For the same reason anyone gambles on anything - They are speculating a (hopefully) affordable amount for the chance to win something worth much more. Is a lottery ticket worth $1? It is to someone who buys it.

 

[GoTulane]

E$xactly!!!!

Isn't it possible that this could happen even inside the AZ community with raffles?

YES - that is what I say too!! Does it really matter if the person is ON or OFF AZB to make it LEGIT??? Can't people do the same thing with their friends on AZB? So what is the difference? I guess it just comes down to trusting the person selling the raffle tickets and running the raffle - if you don't, don't play/gamble. It is all a gamble- so while I understand the comments on this, I guess I have trust in the rafflers whose raffles I have involved myself with. Otherwise, I would not play.

I have had the same thoughts on some of the raffles held here on AZB as being a little less genuine then expected, but then again, I did not buy a ticket. And for some I did, even though it seemed a little strange. I guess I am just stupid, or gullible. In the end, it is still a cheap chance with a very little chance at winning anything other than an empty wallet and a paypal charge.

Are you saying pool players would rig something to give them better odds??? Say it ain't so!!


JMHO - Michael

 

[shamadam]

Here's the potential problem. Let's say someone is raffling a case that was in the for sale section for $200 OBO ,however, 42 spots at $10 each= $420!! As soon as 15 spots sell ,the seller could have phantom buyers for the other spots. In the event one of the 15 real spots win= seller got market value. In the event one of the sellers phantom spots win=seller screwed AZers. I think
#1. the combined price of the tckets needs to be close to the real value of the cue or case, otherwise, it seems like the seller is taking advantage of AZers.-At minimum!
#2 Only Azers can buy tickets. Otherwise do a raffle at your pool hall. I just won a cue in a raffle. What I mean is, the ticket I bought won. A freind of mine saw it on Az and asked me to buy a couple tickets for him.
#3 An unedited post by the seller confirming the exact raffle date being used must be posted(prior to the raffle date) as well as PMs to the participants.
Just my 2 cents-jeff

I believe that the most important rule to follow is Jeff's #1. If the total combinded value of the tickets is equal to the value of the cue, then I dont see a problem. If a cue is worth 500 bucks and 50 tickets are sold at 10 bucks then there cannot be any scam. 10 bucks gets you a shot. Buyer/seller/whoever gets the same 1 in 50 chance for 10 bucks. The seller can buy 49 of those tickets. If the one he didnt buy hits then he sold a 500 dollar cue for 10 bucks. Doubtful, but possible. Again, its all a gamble. The more tickets you buy, the more 1 in 50 chances you get. The problem lies in where someone sells 50 tickets for 15 bucks. Now, after he sells 33 tickets, he got his 500 bucks (495 to be exact) He then buys the last 17 and hopes that one of those hits. Worst case scenario, he got fair value for the cue. Best case, he got a free 495 bucks less whatever the partner in crime wants to sell him his cue back. When the lottery numbers are used, no one can manipulate who wins. One can only manipulate how many 1 in 50 chances one owns. Keep it at fair market value, and a raffle cannot be manipulated. JMO.

P.S. Sorry if I didnt make too much sense. It made sense to me as I was typing it. I done crappy in english class:wink:

 

[swrooster]

the old saying is always correct, if it sounds too good to be true,...... there is always an angle to everything.. let the buyer beware!!!