fargo and the ghost

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

What I like to do is rack 9 every time. That way I get practice breaking a 9 ball rack. Then pull the highest number balls to get down to the number of balls I'm running to on that attempt.

If you see a nice combo or something there. You leaving it?

I was looking back on this thread and have to disagree with sjm on one thing. I think even with 9 ball ghost you’d have to be over a 640 shooter. Maybe a 675ish. Or slightly less. The 710 against 10 ball ghost seems about right though. It’s a tough road up near the 700 mark. He did say even. I’m probably thinking to beat the 9 ghost.

 

[sjm]

If you see a nice combo or something there. You leaving it?

I was looking back on this thread and have to disagree with sjm on one thing. I think even with 9 ball ghost you’d have to be over a 640 shooter. Maybe a 675ish. The 710 against 10 ball ghost seems about right though. It’s a tough road up near the 700 mark.

OK by me. No doubt there is some speculation here, and I'm really just reflecting on previous threads on this subject. On a tight Diamond table, I'm sure 675 is a better number.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

Quick question for you guys. A little off subject but about fargorates. I’ll post a new thread if I need to. What fargorate is a typical house shooter? I’m just curious. Not the guy playing pros, I’m talking the guy who beats most the regulars that aren’t pros but seem pretty good. In your normal halls. A little over 700 seem about right? Or is that high/low?

 

[tomatoshooter]

What I like to do is rack 9 every time. That way I get practice breaking a 9 ball rack. Then pull the highest number balls to get down to the number of balls I'm running to on that attempt.

Good idea to rack 9. I like to shoot a rack of 6 because I have a shot at running out but the break is totally different. If the cue ball stops when it hits a 6 rack, it will fly back with more balls there.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

OK by me. No doubt there is some speculation here, and I'm really just reflecting on previous threads on this subject. On a tight Diamond table, I'm sure 675 is a better number.

Thanks for your input.

The rates might be a bit harder to come by these days too. That’s another reason I’ve been thinking of joining a league. To check out the current rating system. Ive seen plenty of 600-650’s in the past that wouldn’t be able to beat the 9 ball ghost except maybe 1/3 races. It used to be easy. a 3 made 3 balls a 4 4 balls a 5 5-7 balls and a 6 7-9 balls. It got more stringent the higher you were

 

[Woodshaft]

I'd say 670ish fargo to beat 9-ball ghost on 9-foot pro-cut diamond, 720ish to beat 10-ball. Using template rack.

 

[easy-e]

Quick question for you guys. A little off subject but about fargorates. I’ll post a new thread if I need to. What fargorate is a typical house shooter? I’m just curious. Not the guy playing pros, I’m talking the guy who beats most the regulars that aren’t pros but seem pretty good. In your normal halls. A little over 700 seem about right? Or is that high/low?

That seems high to me. In the greater Phoenix area we only have a handful of players over 700.

 

[easy-e]

I think I'm about even money to beat the 9 ball ghost on a 9' diamond. I've beaten the "Pro ghost" a few times, but lose pretty often. It's mostly what I practice these days so I can work on playing position off the break.

In my years of experience, and traveling around meeting lots of people (many AZ posters), I'd say most people grossly exaggerate their abilities against the ghost.

 

[JazzyJeff87]

The ghost is an absolute killer. I remember first reading about the idea and thinking “with ball in hand after the break this will be too easy”

I got humbled quickly with multiple 1-7 or 0-7 losses. It’s easy to forget those times you play a safe or just barley miss a ball during a run and you push it in with your cue because you wanna see how the rest of the rack shakes out. But now those will lose you a rack, momentum, confidence

When I’m playing seriously against the ghost it’s fucking pressure man. You have to break well every time, no clusters. And you’ll still get some layouts that you would never try to run against an opponent, and you’d likely win with a lockup safety but that’s not an option with the ghost.

It takes skill and luck. The last ghost challenge I was in on here was probably 2019. I’m going to try to get something in for this year but I must prepare myself. Mental, physic, spirit, all ‘at

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

That seems high to me. In the greater Phoenix area we only have a handful of players over 700.

Cool! Some of us have a chance guys! I guessed 700 due to my thinking a lot of house shooters won’t play league. I tried out the 9 ball ghost last night. 4 matches Kind of fast. Like in a half hour/45min. But I did score a 3/7. Others were 2/7 Missing the opener 3-4 times in all this by not taking my time didn’t help Then on one side there is a pole 2 times . Last time I stated an estimated number on my game it was only a 580 and also stated it’s because I keep missing easy ones. So I’m not mad and maybe the is real! On 9 ball

 

[skip100]

I think I'm about even money to beat the 9 ball ghost on a 9' diamond. I've beaten the "Pro ghost" a few times, but lose pretty often. It's mostly what I practice these days so I can work on playing position off the break.

In my years of experience, and traveling around meeting lots of people (many AZ posters), I'd say most people grossly exaggerate their abilities against the ghost.

People like to spread 5-6 balls out nicely for themselves and feel like they can run out no problem. (Sometimes true, sometimes not.) The ghost is less kind with starting positions and clusters.

 

[dendweller]

People like to spread 5-6 balls out nicely for themselves and feel like they can run out no problem. (Sometimes true, sometimes not.) The ghost is less kind with starting positions and clusters.

and it you break them, it's surprising how much more difficult 6 is than 5, seems like every ball added increases the chance that something will need to be broken out quite a bit,

 

[garczar]

Cool! Some of us have a chance guys! I guessed 700 due to my thinking a lot of house shooters won’t play league. I tried out the 9 ball ghost last night. 4 matches Kind of fast. Like in a half hour/45min. But I did score a 3/7. Others were 2/7 Missing the opener 3-4 times in all this by not taking my time didn’t help Then on one side there is a pole 2 times . Last time I stated an estimated number on my game it was only a 580 and also stated it’s because I keep missing easy ones. So I’m not mad and maybe the is real! On 9 ball

580 is a pretty good player. i'd guess your average bar shooter would be in the 475-525 range. 700 is pretty stout. Semi-proish level.

 

[JC]

Quick question for you guys. A little off subject but about fargorates. I’ll post a new thread if I need to. What fargorate is a typical house shooter? I’m just curious. Not the guy playing pros, I’m talking the guy who beats most the regulars that aren’t pros but seem pretty good. In your normal halls. A little over 700 seem about right? Or is that high/low?

625 would rob 90% of bar players who fancy themselves to play some.

 

[kling&allen]

and it you break them, it's surprising how much more difficult 6 is than 5, seems like every ball added increases the chance that something will need to be broken out quite a bit,

Agreed. I got to the point earlier this year where I could beat the 6 ball ghost easy and thought I could rapidly be competitive with the 9 ball ghost. I'm not even close.

 

[BlueRaider]

625 would rob 90% of bar players who fancy themselves to play some.

It's rare to find anyone over 500 who plays true "bar pool"--i.e., behind the line rules and in a place that isn't associated with leagues or tournaments. I used to play multiple nights per week in two different dive bars in college and even the best players almost never broke and ran racks. They probably maxed out at APA 5 level.

 

[Poolmanis]

i am probably 700+ player. Not many tourneys and games on Fargo and i think im close to 700 there. I think if I could play more tourneys I could improve my tourney game.
Nowadays i often play handicapped tourneys coz best cash. They won´t be in Fargo. I won 5 out from last 6 even i need give handicap all but vs Pros i play even. Last one I came 2nd and lost final to Petri Makkonen who is really strong pro player.
Anyways I will win 9-ball ghost probably more than 90% of time. I whitewash Ghost too.
10-Ball Ghost is maybe 60-40 for me.
15-Ball Ghost i normally lose 3-7 or 4-7. Sometimes I win and sometimes i lose 1-7 or 2-7.
9-ball and 10-ball Ghost sets not really turn me on anymore and i normally play them without ball in hand. That put a lot of pressure and focus to break shot.

I think 9-ball Ghost is solid 670. You need to shoot close to 700 to win and over 700 to win with ease.
10-Ball probably is 700-720.
without ball in hand add 50-60 points to Ghost Fargo.
15-ball Ghost is probably 800+

 

[sjm]

Quick question for you guys. A little off subject but about fargorates. I’ll post a new thread if I need to. What fargorate is a typical house shooter? I’m just curious. Not the guy playing pros, I’m talking the guy who beats most the regulars that aren’t pros but seem pretty good. In your normal halls. A little over 700 seem about right? Or is that high/low?

I'd say about 660. A 700 is nearly professional level. FYI, to be Top 100 in the United States based on Fargo rate, you need to be a 716.

 

[dr_dave]

So according to Dr Dave's web site, a player with a fargo rating between 450 and 500 is a c+ rating in an ABCD rating system.

I'm curious if anyone has any input on what ghost that player of that rating should be able to beat the majority of the time.

By ghost I mean, rack up some number of balls, break them, spot any balls made and take ball in hand and try to run out, raise to seven.

FYI, the following video covers most of the topics in this thread fairly well:

And details for all topics can be found via the links here:

playing rating resource page
​

Enjoy!

 

[The_JV]

I think I'm about even money to beat the 9 ball ghost on a 9' diamond. I've beaten the "Pro ghost" a few times, but lose pretty often. It's mostly what I practice these days so I can work on playing position off the break.

In my years of experience, and traveling around meeting lots of people (many AZ posters), I'd say most people grossly exaggerate their abilities against the ghost.

without ball in hand add 50-60 points to Ghost Fargo.

Yes, 'Pro-Ghost' is a whole other level.

Speaking as a ~650, Robustness ~115:
I honestly don't bother with the 'standard' ghost 9 ball. Things have to go pretty side ways to lose that set. BIH on the first shot generally allows you to clear up any random cluster and then it's shooting fish in a barrel. Now take away that BIH and the results of the break may not even warrant an attempt at continuing. I'm not saying that I will blank the ghost at every attempt or any attempt for that matter. Just that dropping a set is very rare.

When I'm not pulling my hair out with 14.1, I will play 10b 'semi-ghost'. This is my own personal spin wherein I will only take BIH off the break if I'm hooked on the first ball. I would put myself at <50% playing this way but have blanked the ghost once. Again, it really just boils down to controlling the break shot.

All that said, I realize that a robustness of a mere 115 doesn't place much value in my fargo. If I was to give an honest opinion about my performances that provided me that rating. I'd say I was playing a bit down below my average speed. As I have become older, I've become more a streaky player so if measured against the players I know well and their well established fargos. I'd venture I'm probably closer to 675, and may catch an occassional gear that would have me bouncing off a 700.

Evidence of my claims can be found in various challenge stickie threads on the forum.