Fat's vs Mosconi

softshot

softshot

Simplify
Silver Member
Mosconi vs. Fats

The argument is as old as pool…


I recently mouthed off about Chris Bartrum.. And got chastised pretty badly..

I have nothing against Mr. Bartrum…he’s a good player..

He’s a Fat’s type player.. Quick wit… good game maker… big gambler… he is all about the $$$$

I am not as talented as Mr. Bartrum… but I am more of a Mosconi type..

I demand perfection from myself… I want to be better than everybody… I simply want to be the best..

It’s the same division that’s been around forever..

Democrats and Republicans…. In pool we have the Fat’s and the Mosconis

I think American pool hall culture has developed the Fats personalities at a higher rate simply because it’s an easier path..

Once you get half way adequate at playing the game .. You can slot yourself into the local scene after a few days…. You can get or give spots to enough players to get a game going… you just have to be good enough to beat someone else .. And you can win a few bucks… if the money is what you are after…

The folks on this path have to many names to remember.. As you always find on the easier path


On the other hand… you have perfection type “Mosconi players” they want to be the best period…

Some examples Ralf Souquet… Earl Strickland…Steve Mizerak…Irving Crane…Mike Segal…

The Drive to be the best is what creates champions

Because being the best requires work… there is a new high bar set daily.. And you are always chasing a perfection you will never attain.. But you keep chasing because you WANT TO BE THE BEST!!!

You look at modern Asian pool.. And you have young well coached players. Who are as good as anybody they just show up and win…. They focus on maximizing their talent..

Gamblers focus on maximizing their profit… two different worlds …. two different paths..

But only one leads to the top of the mountain….

You look at the Bartrums and the Schmitt’s talented young players… coasting on talent laughing at everyone……

But they are rarely in the finals…

They want the easy way…they scoff and taunt the very people who could maximize their potential and take them farther than even they can imagine… the coaches…

Heart shows up every morning for drills…. Heart keeps raising the bar… Heart won’t accept that yesterday was good enough… Heart won’t ever accept a handicap… heart is what makes champions…

….I’ll shut up now
 
softshot said:
Mosconi vs. Fats

The argument is as old as pool…


I recently mouthed off about Chris Bartrum.. And got chastised pretty badly..

I have nothing against Mr. Bartrum…he’s a good player..

He’s a Fat’s type player.. Quick wit… good game maker… big gambler… he is all about the $$$$

I am not as talented as Mr. Bartrum… but I am more of a Mosconi type..

I demand perfection from myself… I want to be better than everybody… I simply want to be the best..

It’s the same division that’s been around forever..

Democrats and Republicans…. In pool we have the Fat’s and the Mosconis

I think American pool hall culture has developed the Fats personalities at a higher rate simply because it’s an easier path..

Once you get half way adequate at playing the game .. You can slot yourself into the local scene after a few days…. You can get or give spots to enough players to get a game going… you just have to be good enough to beat someone else .. And you can win a few bucks… if the money is what you are after…

The folks on this path have to many names to remember.. As you always find on the easier path


On the other hand… you have perfection type “Mosconi players” they want to be the best period…

Some examples Ralf Souquet… Earl Strickland…Steve Mizerak…Irving Crane…Mike Segal…

The Drive to be the best is what creates champions

Because being the best requires work… there is a new high bar set daily.. And you are always chasing a perfection you will never attain.. But you keep chasing because you WANT TO BE THE BEST!!!

You look at modern Asian pool.. And you have young well coached players. Who are as good as anybody they just show up and win…. They focus on maximizing their talent..

Gamblers focus on maximizing their profit… two different worlds …. two different paths..

But only one leads to the top of the mountain….

You look at the Bartrums and the Schmitt’s talented young players… coasting on talent laughing at everyone……

But they are rarely in the finals…

They want the easy way…they scoff and taunt the very people who could maximize their potential and take them farther than even they can imagine… the coaches…

Heart shows up every morning for drills…. Heart keeps raising the bar… Heart won’t accept that yesterday was good enough… Heart won’t ever accept a handicap… heart is what makes champions…

….I’ll shut up now
Click to expand...


And to think why Pocket Billiards will never be a sport...

More "Fats" = entertainment, "game" label, gambling, playing for money, hustling, obnoxious blabering, smoked filled rooms, drinking galore,

More "Mosconi" (plus integrity for the sport) = more challenge, brings it into a perspective where even middle and high schools can play this sport, uses of Mathematics and Physics involved, possibility of being sponsorship worthy by other companies, builds friendship, increases intelligence, and could possibly be considered as an Olympic discipline.

Although there can be more for both sides, I will stop here. You all can start the flame works on me, but I am just speaking my honest two cents. If any of you all can disagree, then please offer some constructive criticism in this thead... I would love to read them. :)
 
I am really not sure how to respond to the OP one thing I do know is that Chris has heart and he worked his butt off to play as well as he does I remember around 15 years ago stepping into Cornfed Red's in Columbus and seeing Chris practicing cutting balls down the long rail leaving checking into the hotel eating dinner taking a nap and coming back 8 hrs later and seeing guess who back cutting balls into the side pocket? Chris is a pool player he has a ton of talent and worked very hard to get where he is.
 
Chris is a pool player. After watching him beat Mika this year, he can play with anyone. Fats on the other hand, could not.
 
I just want to know if softshot knows Chris personally.

If not, then I think a big fat STFU is in order. Maybe he has put in the work? Maybe he has already overcome a slight lack of natural talent through loads of hard work, and is still working hard along that path? How could you possibly know one way or the other?

If you do know him personally, then I'll take back my $.02.
 
It's 2010 buddy....what about the "Efren" types. Or can you typecast Efren. If you try to say he hasn't redefined what a pool player can be than I think you're a nit. Efren gambled the best and played tourneys the best. He's the best period. So I think in 2010 you need to realize that the old school way of looking at things doesnt work anymore.

This is an era of depression really. Regional tournaments are the way to go nowadays. Better to get your money off the books than on them if you want to make a living so they have to bet. Look at the game, the economy...in your opinion who wins the DCC? Is it the Master of the Table or the guy who has to buy a duffle bag from the gift shop to bring all the money home? Last question...what if it's the same guy?

Main point here is you have got to prove yourself on both grounds to be the best today. Ralf is great at tourneys but who knows how he matches up for the cash. It's harder to make that long tough cut shot for the money gambling versus in a tournament where youre getting paid anyway.

This is such a nitty thread. Again Soft...ridiculous.
 
A good point lost in the background

Folks,

Forget what Softshot said about heart, forget what he said about Chris and the other people he used as examples. Nobody gets to or near the top without heart. However he does have an excellent point about the two paths. Some people are in the game as a game, to have fun and gamble or even purely to gamble. They don't have to achieve the level of perfection the Mosconi types are driven to. Some play eight hours and remember a few great shots. Some play eight hours and are haunted by a few bad shots.

I fit both sides, unabashedly most of the time I was after cash. I loved the game but I loved the dollars more. Looking back at pool played as long as forty years ago now though I can remember the names of the people that gave me really tough battles, I can even remember some of the shots played. Trying to remember the names of the top six people I took the most money from I can't remember the names of any of them.

Softshot, your core message was good. You are going to get roasted again for missing the mark trying to explain it though! :D :D :D

Hu
 
metallicane said:
Chris is a pool player. After watching him beat Mika this year, he can play with anyone. Fats on the other hand, could not.
Click to expand...
Fats was already over the hill when he became famous. He was feared by even many of the top players when it came to playing one pocket when in his prime. One pocket was his game.
 
softshot said:
Mosconi vs. Fats

The argument is as old as pool…


I recently mouthed off about Chris Bartrum.. And got chastised pretty badly..

I have nothing against Mr. Bartrum…he’s a good player..

He’s a Fat’s type player.. Quick wit… good game maker… big gambler… he is all about the $$$$

I am not as talented as Mr. Bartrum… but I am more of a Mosconi type..

I demand perfection from myself… I want to be better than everybody… I simply want to be the best..

It’s the same division that’s been around forever..

Democrats and Republicans…. In pool we have the Fat’s and the Mosconis

I think American pool hall culture has developed the Fats personalities at a higher rate simply because it’s an easier path..

Once you get half way adequate at playing the game .. You can slot yourself into the local scene after a few days…. You can get or give spots to enough players to get a game going… you just have to be good enough to beat someone else .. And you can win a few bucks… if the money is what you are after…

The folks on this path have to many names to remember.. As you always find on the easier path


On the other hand… you have perfection type “Mosconi players” they want to be the best period…

Some examples Ralf Souquet… Earl Strickland…Steve Mizerak…Irving Crane…Mike Segal…

The Drive to be the best is what creates champions

Because being the best requires work… there is a new high bar set daily.. And you are always chasing a perfection you will never attain.. But you keep chasing because you WANT TO BE THE BEST!!!

You look at modern Asian pool.. And you have young well coached players. Who are as good as anybody they just show up and win…. They focus on maximizing their talent..

Gamblers focus on maximizing their profit… two different worlds …. two different paths..

But only one leads to the top of the mountain….

You look at the Bartrums and the Schmitt’s talented young players… coasting on talent laughing at everyone……

But they are rarely in the finals…

They want the easy way…they scoff and taunt the very people who could maximize their potential and take them farther than even they can imagine… the coaches…

Heart shows up every morning for drills…. Heart keeps raising the bar… Heart won’t accept that yesterday was good enough… Heart won’t ever accept a handicap… heart is what makes champions…

….I’ll shut up now
Click to expand...

You are a complete and absolute douche. If you ever acted up in person like you are doing over the internet, I can promise you that I would put you in your place. Maybe someday you can make an appearance in person. If you do, please introduce yourself to me. Youve got me in a bad mood. Good luck.
 
softshot said:
I am not as talented as Mr. Bartrum… but I am more of a Mosconi type..

I demand perfection from myself… I want to be better than everybody… I simply want to be the best..

….I’ll shut up now
Click to expand...

OK, you're right. Any living human could work and become the best player in the world. Talent doesn't make any difference, it's all work ethic and motivation. I play horribly, but love pool. I have played for many years and just cannot get there, so I accept that. Chris, Scooter, Tedder, and many others may never play much better than they do now (which is pretty good regardless), but that doesn't mean they should not try to enjoy the game.

Wanting to be the best doesn't get you very far if it isn't within you to do so. Getting the cash will however pay your bills and buy dinner, so that's my $0.02. No rudeness, just another opinion.
 
Don't let Mosconi fool you. He was more like Fats than he would ever admit to. I think he took the high-road in his opinions about gambling and pool because of the times he lived in and his association with Brunswick.
 
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