Fear of Feel

No, he just did not win a world championship.

Here is something else for you to think about. When CJ came out of retirement and played at the US open 9 ball championship. Every round he was introduced not once did the announcer state he was a world champion, like they did for others. If he won a world championship do you think he would want it announced as such?

CJ knows it was not a recognized world championship, why don't you? His player of the year honors is something that he did accomplish and should be very proud of it.

I have noticed on CJ's account he refers to his POY accomplishment. I say good for him.

:thumbup:

cfrandy said:
Damn, now that the AZ CTE storm troopers have told CJ he did not play in a "World Championship Tournament"...who's going to tell Oliver Ortmann, Earl Strickland, Allen Hopkins, Steve Knight, Jose Parica, George San Souci, Danny Medina, Kyle Tafoya, Yasunari Itsuzaki, Tom Storm, Mika Immonen, Ismael Paez, Steve Moore, Billy Palmer, Shannon Daulton, Vivian Villarreal, Allison Fisher, Loree Jon Jones, and the rest of the pros who thought they were playing in a "World Championship Tournament"?
I guess maybe they just need to come on AZ where pros are treated like crap!
Click to expand...
 
Mikjary said:
This thread died many pages ago and so's my interest in much of what the usual suspects are posting.
Click to expand...

Mike, this thread died back on page one, and I don't think your "core group of less than 20 posters" had anything to do with killing it because one member of "the core" you are alluding to was, in fact, the OP. Go back and read the first page and see how hard it is to start an interesting and original thread without the opposing view dominating it within a few posts.

This crap goes on from both sides, not just the one. I'm tired of it myself. A man should be able to propose an idea here without threat of castigation and humiliation. This is primarily an Internet phenomenon IMO, but pool seems to bring out the worst of it for some bizarre reason. If folks spoke to each other in real life the way they do here, the floor would be covered with broken teeth and blood.

This also goes for making boastful claims. If I had some playing friends over at my place in real life, and there was a world-class player there who would not stop telling us all how great he was, and kept dominating the conversation, giving us all the same advise over and over again all night long, he would not be invited over again... even if it was Willie Mosconi come back from the dead. In real life there would be one or two groupies sucking up to Willie, and the rest of the guys would be rolling their eyes and suggesting we move this party to a pool hall.

Well, this is our virtual pool hall, and we can't get away from that guy. CJ has had 10,000 posts in less than three years. He keeps saying the same things over and over again. I trust that by now he has said all he can say about the subject. So the fact that he is posting less and less may just be a sign that he's said enough, like when Forrest Gump decided he had done enough running.

What more are you waiting for from him? No one wants to drive him away, but neither is anybody going to go out of their way to cajole him into staying. He is an equal here, nothing more, nothing less. If being a mere equal is no fun for him, let him be his own man and decide that for himself.
 
The Whole of Pool is very much like this Forum

Sloppy Pockets said:
Mike, this thread died back on page one, and I don't think your "core group of less than 20 posters" had anything to do with killing it because one member of "the core" you are alluding to was, in fact, the OP. Go back and read the first page and see how hard it is to start an interesting and original thread without the opposing view dominating it within a few posts.

This crap goes on from both sides, not just the one. I'm tired of it myself. A man should be able to propose an idea here without threat of castigation and humiliation. This is primarily an Internet phenomenon IMO, but pool seems to bring out the worst of it for some bizarre reason. If folks spoke to each other in real life the way they do here, the floor would be covered with broken teeth and blood.

This also goes for making boastful claims. If I had some playing friends over at my place in real life, and there was a world-class player there who would not stop telling us all how great he was, and kept dominating the conversation, giving us all the same advise over and over again all night long, he would not be invited over again... even if it was Willie Mosconi come back from the dead. In real life there would be one or two groupies sucking up to Willie, and the rest of the guys would be rolling their eyes and suggesting we move this party to a pool hall.

Well, this is our virtual pool hall, and we can't get away from that guy. CJ has had 10,000 posts in less than three years. He keeps saying the same things over and over again. I trust that by now he has said all he can say about the subject. So the fact that he is posting less and less may just be a sign that he's said enough, like when Forrest Gump decided he had done enough running.

What more are you waiting for from him? No one wants to drive him away, but neither is anybody going to go out of their way to cajole him into staying. He is an equal here, nothing more, nothing less. If being a mere equal is no fun for him, let him be his own man and decide that for himself.
Click to expand...

The whole of Pool is very much like this forum. There is no consensus and there is much testosterone and narcissism. I've had people watch me from across the room when I'm practicing Pass Banks and see me hit the majority of my shots while I focus on ways to beat the kiss. One guy came over and said well how is the practicing going? and he wanted to know how I was doing so well so I tell him what my basis for considering one of those shots was....his reply...Man thats some bs right there but I make the majority of the shots I attempt that way.

Im making the shots he wants to know how to play, yet my way is wrong.

Pool is just that way and better kept in context as an addition to a full life this way others opinions of what you do is just that opinions. Until someone really wants to learn something your air is wasted on them.

In trying to get the thread back on track with the acquisition of feel, what other way other than getting someone so close the what is happening visually with the shot is there?
 
Last edited:
Tony_in_MD said:
You pulled the same move, why is it OK for you and not me.

You Sir, have serious issues. Get some help.
Click to expand...

Tony,

I should probably leave well enough alone, but I am sincerely trying to possibly help with the following. I hope you take it as intended.

If you are being genuine, then you missed the sarcasm again.

You seem to have a bit of tunnel vision & seem to only take a single post into consideration at a time.

That is not what a discussion, debate, conversation, or argument is.

Those encompass themselves in their entirety. One has to keep former communication in mind, just as a pronoun refers back to the noun stated before it.

I do not mean to be condescending, so please do not take this as such.

Perhaps you have a degree of short term memory issues. That can be a sign of a severe medical problem on the horizon.

My mother had Alzheimer's for a rather long timeframe & I know how very long that she went with only that slight short term memory issue before she went downhill very fast.

I sincerely hope that that is not the case for you. However, you may wish to tell a family member what I've said here just to be safe.

If you are doing what you are on purpose for your own intentions then please disregard this post in it's entirety.

Best Wishes to You & Yours,
Rick
 
Last edited:
A Walk out into the Wilderness

On the subject of feel.....

Somewhere a long time ago in a land very far away I think I picked up a book by The Monk and he had something in there about him going on a sabbatical in the Wilderness to get back in touch with the inner forces that made his feel stronger and gave him determination to want to play better.

So what do you think of things as such?
 
cfrandy said:
Damn, now that the AZ CTE storm troopers have told CJ he did not play in a "World Championship Tournament"...who's going to tell Oliver Ortmann, Earl Strickland, Allen Hopkins, Steve Knight, Jose Parica, George San Souci, Danny Medina, Kyle Tafoya, Yasunari Itsuzaki, Tom Storm, Mika Immonen, Ismael Paez, Steve Moore, Billy Palmer, Shannon Daulton, Vivian Villarreal, Allison Fisher, Loree Jon Jones, and the rest of the pros who thought they were playing in a "World Championship Tournament"?
I guess maybe they just need to come on AZ where pros are treated like crap!
Click to expand...

AHHH the name calling. Thought u said u were an old man. You shouldn't be stooping to such levels
 
cfrandy said:
Hmmmm, I think our little boy is jealous. When YOU grow up, maybe you'll be able to jump like a pro too. The only hard part is...growing up!
Click to expand...

Hey old man !!!! The only hard part for you is learning how to hold the cue..... I hope you make it in the next 30 years......

Jealous of you ????? Lmaooooo !!!!!!!! You are a joke old man. And your videos are also a joke. No chance for you to learn the game in this life..........

P.s. You were the one who called me a "d...ass" when I gave you the red for your disrespectful trash talking. Got it now ? You are a pathetic old man who thinks he can play. You are nothing. Just a joke.
 
Last edited:
Just like other things in life I think taking a break from something allows you to reflect, and recharge.

I am all for it.



336Robin said:
On the subject of feel.....

Somewhere a long time ago in a land very far away I think I picked up a book by The Monk and he had something in there about him going on a sabbatical in the Wilderness to get back in touch with the inner forces that made his feel stronger and gave him determination to want to play better.

So what do you think of things as such?
Click to expand...
 
Tony_in_MD said:
No, he just did not win a world championship.

Here is something else for you to think about. When CJ came out of retirement and played at the US open 9 ball championship. Every round he was introduced not once did the announcer state he was a world champion, like they did for others. If he won a world championship do you think he would want it announced as such?

CJ knows it was not a recognized world championship, why don't you? His player of the year honors is something that he did accomplish and should be very proud of it.

I have noticed on CJ's account he refers to his POY accomplishment. I say good for him.

:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Hmmmm, so will YOU be the one to tell the rest of the participants they did not play in a World Championship Tournament? After all, that IS the question I asked!

Fact is, at that time in billiards history ESPN was trying to renew interest in the sport that seemed to be coming apart at the seams! ESPN is considered a premier sports authority and has sponsored many World Championship Tournaments of all kinds throughout it's history. Even the purse was the largest in Billiards history! Who are you to decide for anyone but yourself that this tournament was anything less than a World Championship? I guess the fact that he beat the current #1 ranked champion and the previous #1 champion means nothing to you? Frankly it is people like you that has brought billiards to it's knees. Why not promote the sport in a positive way? Is that too much to ask?

Oops, there goes that silly publication Billiards Digest: "1996 ESPN World Open women's champion Vivian Villarreal" Don't forget to tell her too, she did not win a World Championship! What the heck does Billiards Digest know!


"Here is something else for you to think about. When CJ came out of retirement and played at the US open 9 ball championship. Every round he was introduced not once did the announcer state he was a world champion, like they did for others."

Almost 20 years after the fact and yeah, the media forgets quickly! Had they announced him as a World Champion would you have recognized him as such? That sure would have ruined your day huh?
 
Show me the record book where it states he won a world championship. Show me where I said anything derogatory towards CJ's ability, show me where I said I don't care who he beat. How am I bring the sport to my knees, by holding fast to the premise of honoring a true world championship that is recognized? Anything less and it takes away from those that have won a recognized world championship.

I didn't decide it for myself, the billiard organizations did. You have a problem with it, petition the WPA on CJ's behalf to have the event recognized as a World Championship.

It doesn't matter if it is 1 or 20 years. It does not matter who is in the field (or who isn't) if the event is not recognized, it is not a world championship. When was Allen Hopkins last world championship? He is still announced as such, same with Nick Varner, and Earl Strickland. I can fire back with a list too.

I cannot believe that this is lost on you. Why don't you sponsor the Worlds Tournament of VFW 8 ball, so I can come down to Florida and have a chance to be a World Champ?

p.s. Oh yeah, in this case Billiards Digest doesn't know much. Who is to say they weren't involved in the production of the event. Do you believe everything you read in newspapers and magazines?

cfrandy said:
Hmmmm, so will YOU be the one to tell the rest of the participants they did not play in a World Championship Tournament? After all, that IS the question I asked!

Fact is, at that time in billiards history ESPN was trying to renew interest in the sport that seemed to be coming apart at the seams! ESPN is considered a premier sports authority and has sponsored many World Championship Tournaments of all kinds throughout it's history. Even the purse was the largest in Billiards history! Who are you to decide for anyone but yourself that this tournament was anything less than a World Championship? I guess the fact that he beat the current #1 ranked champion and the previous #1 champion means nothing to you? Frankly it is people like you that has brought billiards to it's knees. Why not promote the sport in a positive way? Is that too much to ask?

Oops, there goes that silly publication Billiards Digest: "1996 ESPN World Open women's champion Vivian Villarreal" Don't forget to tell her too, she did not win a World Championship! What the heck does Billiards Digest know!


"Here is something else for you to think about. When CJ came out of retirement and played at the US open 9 ball championship. Every round he was introduced not once did the announcer state he was a world champion, like they did for others."

Almost 20 years after the fact and yeah, the media forgets quickly! Had they announced him as a World Champion would you have recognized him as such? That sure would have ruined your day huh?
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I agree

Tony_in_MD said:
Just like other things in life I think taking a break from something allows you to reflect, and recharge.

I am all for it.
Click to expand...

Agreed taking a break is necessary to separate the wheat from the chaff. Some things aren't as important as others and if you find something you can't abide by, time alone and thought allows you to release it, abandon it and move on better for it.
 
Lets define the phrase "playing with feel" a little better.

There is feel from the cue hitting the ball, the feel of a proper stance, the feel of a good stroke, the feel of a well executed shot and so on.

But playing with feel is not the same thing.

I ride a motorcycle, raced one for few years, and recently started doing track days again.

Riding by feel is the only way to go fast. You can not consciously think fast enough to ride fast. Things are occurring so fast that reactions must happen without thought. You just react to what you see happening in front you.

For me, playing with feel is like riding a motorcycle fast. I just the series of shots (turns) on the table I need to do and then do them.

Like riding fast, the better I know the road or track, the faster I ride.

The more I spend timing hitting balls on the table ,the better I shoot.

I've noticed that when I start thinking about shooting, I start playing badly. The stroke is first to go, then where I place the CB.

But once I go back to just see and doing.......ie playing by feel, things quickly change. The stroke comes back, CB placement goes up and balls go in the pocket.

It is as if I'm not playing pool at all......but just out for a fast ride.
 
Playing with feel and strength

I understand what youre saying Duckie,

There is a local guy that takes me off my game because he is slow. Learning to play that game has given me a lot of strength, better more consistent feel when you get to a more refined point where you can turn it on or off. It doesnt happen overnight either.
You have to know how you go about things really well so feel for me is knowledge in the background like parameters, edges that tell me how far I can go.


duckie said:
Lets define the phrase "playing with feel" a little better.

There is feel from the cue hitting the ball, the feel of a proper stance, the feel of a good stroke, the feel of a well executed shot and so on.

But playing with feel is not the same thing.

I ride a motorcycle, raced one for few years, and recently started doing track days again.

Riding by feel is the only way to go fast. You can not consciously think fast enough to ride fast. Things are occurring so fast that reactions must happen without thought. You just react to what you see happening in front you.

For me, playing with feel is like riding a motorcycle fast. I just the series of shots (turns) on the table I need to do and then do them.

Like riding fast, the better I know the road or track, the faster I ride.

The more I spend timing hitting balls on the table ,the better I shoot.

I've noticed that when I start thinking about shooting, I start playing badly. The stroke is first to go, then where I place the CB.

But once I go back to just see and doing.......ie playing by feel, things quickly change. The stroke comes back, CB placement goes up and balls go in the pocket.

It is as if I'm not playing pool at all......but just out for a fast ride.
Click to expand...
 
336Robin said:
On the subject of feel.....

Somewhere a long time ago in a land very far away I think I picked up a book by The Monk and he had something in there about him going on a sabbatical in the Wilderness to get back in touch with the inner forces that made his feel stronger and gave him determination to want to play better.

So what do you think of things as such?
Click to expand...

Taking time off to reflect might be ok... I don't know about taking that time off in the wilderness... but then, I'm not a Monk.

.
 
Agreed

Ralph Kramden said:
Taking time off to reflect might be ok... I don't know about taking that time off in the wilderness... but then, I'm not a Monk.

.
Click to expand...

I sort of agree with you, Most of my time off is spent working outside and thinking about what is good about my game and what needs improvement or something I am working on.

In a way the whole subject of feel is subjective in and of itself.

Some people seem to think that Feel is supposed to be felt without any help or direction whatsoever and I think this is totally wrong. I know in my game I would figure out how to get as close to skill as possible using a reference and then I could understand exactly how to apply shot pressure, spin, cut and make things work out if it were a shot, bank shot or safety.

So where do you guys stand on what feel is?

Are you supposed to be at one with the universe and just go willy nilly into playing as if you have no thoughts whatsoever or is it a thoughtful process?
 
336Robin said:
I sort of agree with you, Most of my time off is spent working outside and thinking about what is good about my game and what needs improvement or something I am working on.

In a way the whole subject of feel is subjective in and of itself.

Some people seem to think that Feel is supposed to be felt without any help or direction whatsoever and I think this is totally wrong. I know in my game I would figure out how to get as close to skill as possible using a reference and then I could understand exactly how to apply shot pressure, spin, cut and make things work out if it were a shot, bank shot or safety.

So where do you guys stand on what feel is?

Are you supposed to be at one with the universe and just go willy nilly into playing as if you have no thoughts whatsoever or is it a thoughtful process?
Click to expand...
As I use it, "feel" in aiming simply means any part of the process that isn't accomplished by following a precise robotic "formula", but requires some "estimation" learned through experience. I think all aiming, with or without any system, relies on "feel" to find the final alignment, and also for other parts in the process (like choosing the correct reference alignment, for instance).

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
As I use it, "feel" in aiming simply means any part of the process that isn't accomplished by following a precise robotic "formula", but requires some "estimation" learned through experience. I think all aiming, with or without any system, relies on "feel" to find the final alignment, and also for other parts in the process (like choosing the correct reference alignment, for instance).

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Yes. Whilst worthless on virtually every conceivable level, aiming systems appear to do nothing but add an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy to the process.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top