Fear of Feel

[LAMas]

Yes, that picture is better, but it is not exactly what Dave's exercise would yield.

With Dave's instructions, the pre-pivot alignment for shots A, B, and C in that picture would not all be on the same line. They would be 3 separate lines, from the offset position to the center of each OB. The more distant the OB is from the CB, the less angled the pre-pivot line would be relative to the line of centers through the CB and OB.

And then the pivot back to center CB would likely produce different shot lines for each of the shots A, B, and C, rather than the single line of travel of the CB shown in the picture.

But the effect of distance on the cut angle would still be present.

Dave's diagram is not what has been discussed earlier. The starting position is to aim the center of the CB at the center of the OB. The diagram looks like the starting position is aiming the cue at the left 1/8 of the CB at the left 1/8 of the OB for A, B and C pre-pivot.

This starting position (1/8 from the edge) perhaps represents the parallel shift to the side from the discussed center of the CB aimed at the center of the OB and way more than the aforementioned 1/2 tip offset pre-pivot.

Shifting the cue 1/2 tip (.25") to the side and parallel to the C2C line of the CB and then pivoting back to the CB center creates an included angle at the bridge.

Assuming that the bridge is 12" behind the CB, that the 1/2 tip is .25" then the created included angle is 1.2 degrees...all the way down the table.:smile: But we all knew that.

Just saying.

Be well

 

[Colin Colenso]

Bucket pockets are really fun to play on when playing straight pool, especially for a blind old man like myself.

But I like to play rotation games on tighter pockets. Perhaps you and I can play some on a Diamond Blue Label with 4.5" pockets at next years DCC? You'd have a clear advantage with that monster break of yours.

Cheers.

DTL

Thanks for the invite DTL. Would love to attend Derby City one day, though it is impractical being from Australia.

FWIW: Not a big fan of 9-ball or 10-ball. My pet game is 1 point per ball 11 ball, potted in rotation but 2 rails need to be it every shot in addition to called pot to continue the visit. Incoming player has ball in hand.

Not saying I'm great at it, but ok, and I enjoy that kind of playing. Have made last 4 in our National 9 and 10 ball titles, but it's not too competitive here and I play mainly on English pool tables with 3 1/2 inch pockets and 2 inch balls, though I have a US table that plays nearly as tight as a snooker table as it has been in the outside garage for 5 years and has 4.5 inch pockets.

Cheers,
Colin

 

[336Robin]

Yes, that picture is better, but it is not exactly what Dave's exercise would yield.

With Dave's instructions, the pre-pivot alignment for shots A, B, and C in that picture would not all be on the same line. They would be 3 separate lines, from the offset position to the center of each OB. The more distant the OB is from the CB, the less angled the pre-pivot line would be relative to the line of centers through the CB and OB.

And then the pivot back to center CB would likely produce different shot lines for each of the shots A, B, and C, rather than the single line of travel of the CB shown in the picture.

But the effect of distance on the cut angle would still be present.

AtLarge,
I have not read every single post here. I am not near a table and have a limited knowledge of pivot systems in general, but what I see in this diagram would likely discourage me from pivot systems use if its so dependent on distance. It would seem you would need a detailed instruction designed for each distance to pot in the far left corner. Am I wrong?

 

[cfrandy]

What I suggest is that you stop referencing CTE until you actually know something about it. The adult thing for you to do would be to discontinue speaking about subjects, in particularly CTE, in which you have no real knowledge or experience.

Stan Shuffett

The "adult thing" for YOU to do is stop acting like a child! Stop badgering people with CTE. Don't you get it? You have lost ALL credibility with your offensive demeanor here! For that reason alone many will NEVER try your system! :angry:

 

[stan shuffett]

The "adult thing" for YOU to do is stop acting like a child! Stop badgering people with CTE. Don't you get it? You have lost ALL credibility with your offensive demeanor here! For that reason alone many will NEVER try your system! :angry:

Spill forth your hate...nothing new from you....Mister.....

Stan Shuffett

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Do you understand the word Best?

I have no idea what this question is referring to but I'll do my "best" to answer it after you answer my questions first that I posted earlier. You avoided them.

1.What is PJ's professional accreditation in pool?

2. Is he a professional player and what is his professional play record?

3.What pro players has he taught?

4. How many pool players has he instructed who have gone on to be pro players?

5. How many paid lessons does he do per year?

6. Does he have his own instructional website or created any books and dvds?

PJ is welcome to answer the questions directly himself without going around in circles saying nothing as he always does.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Well, everyone has an ego. The unknown is how far it will go to protect its owner...

No boundaries for PJ, infinity.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

For Colin and everyone else. Are you aware that CJ Wiley has the same 3 reference point aiming method on his instructional dvd? That's it! Center of the OB, halfway between C&E, and Edge. He doesn't use a pivot as I suggested but he gets to the OB and pocket through other means.

The question for all of you is how can a World Champion with all of his tournament wins across the world, money earned, lessons given to pro players and regular players, dvds produced, be so illiterate compared to all the keyboard cowboys on this forum? It's mind boggling.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I have no idea what this question is referring to but I'll do my "best" to answer it after you answer my questions first that I posted earlier. You avoided them.

1.What is PJ's professional accreditation in pool?

2. Is he a professional player and what is his professional play record?

3.What pro players has he taught?

4. How many pool players has he instructed who have gone on to be pro players?

5. How many paid lessons does he do per year?

6. Does he have his own instructional website or created any books and dvds?

PJ is welcome to answer the questions directly himself without going around in circles saying nothing as he always does.

I'll answer those questions as soon as you tell us how those qualifications are necessary to determine whether a system relies on feel or not.

pj
chgo

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Also, a BHE pivot is almost always different than an aiming pivot. A BHE pivot is performed within the bridge (like a nail going through the shaft) and an aiming pivot is performed "about" the bridge, as if the bridge were a fulcrum and lever, with the length of the lever being the distance of the shot.

That's why Dr. Dave's diagram is completely wrong. He's been told it's nonsense, he knows it's nonsense and his reply instead of fixing it is: make your own website. So, there's clearly politics at play.

Colin's posts about BHE pivots equaling certain degrees in aim change don't apply as you're using a screwdriver to hammer in a nail.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

The "adult thing" for YOU to do is stop acting like a child! Stop badgering people with CTE. Don't you get it? You have lost ALL credibility with your offensive demeanor here! For that reason alone many will NEVER try your system! :angry:

He hasn't lost any credibility, it's those like you who do everything in your power to destroy it.

I hope you have an open mind when you receive your new dvds from CJ. He's going to be showing an old dog who is set in his ways from the 60's or 70's some things which you'll be apt to blow off as garbage. One of which is the 3 line aiming method that I displayed and now is being picked apart by the keyboard wizards.

I have to LMAO because I've used it for years and run multiple full racks of balls using nothing but what I laid out and exactly as described. Watching them go through all of these illustrations and then saying it's BS is hilarious.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I'll answer those questions as soon as you tell us how those qualifications are necessary to determine whether a system relies on feel or not.

pj
chgo

Because you don't know what you don't know since you aren't a developed player yet.

(here we go, Patrick starting his favorite trick of going around in circles)

 

[336Robin]

Also, a BHE pivot is almost always different than an aiming pivot. A BHE pivot is performed within the bridge (like a nail going through the shaft) and an aiming pivot is performed "about" the bridge, as if the bridge were a fulcrum and lever, with the length of the lever being the distance of the shot.

That's why Dr. Dave's diagram is completely wrong. He's been told it's nonsense, he knows it's nonsense and his reply instead of fixing it is: make your own website. So, there's clearly politics at play.

Colin's posts about BHE pivots equaling certain degrees in aim change don't apply as you're using a screwdriver to hammer in a nail.

Yes I can see some of that. I can use a FHE or BHE pivot with a center ball delivery position with no problems. The aiming pivot I see as a different kind of adjustment as incrementally smaller and in so being I can see where some manipulations would work at more than one angle, its determining the angle range that spells familiarity. I find similarities in FHE and BHE the same basic way. One is very similar to the other while one is for a family or group of shots more so than the other, but one is much better for the strong stroke.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Also, a BHE pivot is almost always different than an aiming pivot. A BHE pivot is performed within the bridge (like a nail going through the shaft) and an aiming pivot is performed "about" the bridge, as if the bridge were a fulcrum and lever, with the length of the lever being the distance of the shot.

That's why Dr. Dave's diagram is completely wrong. He's been told it's nonsense, he knows it's nonsense and his reply instead of fixing it is: make your own website. So, there's clearly politics at play.

Colin's posts about BHE pivots equaling certain degrees in aim change don't apply as you're using a screwdriver to hammer in a nail.

So Dave,
When you explained aligning CCB to COB and then pivoting to 1/2 tip OE to make the cut, can you expand in any way how you pivot 'about' the bridge, rather than using it as a fulcrum?

If you can't explain it, then it's not a system. It's called fudging.

Colin ~ Explains systems, doesn't advise systems with unmentioned variables.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

So Dave,
When you explained aligning CCB to COB and then pivoting to 1/2 tip OE to make the cut, can you expand in any way how you pivot 'about' the bridge, rather than using it as a fulcrum?

If you can't explain it, then it's not a system. It's called fudging.

Colin ~ Explains systems, doesn't advise systems with unmentioned variables.

You pivot from the tip-back, based on the ob plane. I made like 20 posts on this topic over the years. Use the search function, it's also a great system.

 

[cfrandy]

He hasn't lost any credibility, it's those like you who do everything in your power to destroy it.

I actually bought Stan's DVD's too, before he compromise his character!

I hope you have an open mind when you receive your new dvds from CJ. He's going to be showing an old dog who is set in his ways from the 60's or 70's some things which you'll be apt to blow off as garbage. One of which is the 3 line aiming method that I displayed and now is being picked apart by the keyboard wizards.

I have always had an open mind when it comes to the sport I am passionate about. I didn't "blow off as garbage" Pro One, it was simply not for me! I have copied your "exercise" and will give it a try the 1st chance I get.

I have to LMAO because I've used it for years and run multiple full racks of balls using nothing but what I laid out and exactly as described. Watching them go through all of these illustrations and then saying it's BS is hilarious.

I think it would have been more helpful to use CueTable to lay it out. It would seem many here are unable to grasp your written diagram. Our maybe they simply doubt your sincerity because of all the riff raff you, Neil, and especially Stan seem to create. Being modest and polite is a much better way to get your point across. Character does count, if people respect you they will believe you!

 

[Colin Colenso]

You pivot from the tip-back, based on the ob plane. I made like 20 posts on this topic over the years. Use the search function, it's also a great system.

Dave,
You should get a name for your special pivots and always link to the description of the parameters of such pivots when you tell people to pivot.

Because your description is not of common understanding.

And you insisted on us being able to know how to 'pivot from the tip back'? (Shaking head). Seems more like pivoting one's head from reality when called out for making an impossible claim.

Cheers,
Colin

 

[Patrick Johnson]

You pivot from the tip-back, based on the ob plane. I made like 20 posts on this topic over the years. Use the search function, it's also a great system.

Just a quick clarification: do you mean pivot the cue as if it's long enough to reach the OB and it pivots at that distant point?

pj
chgo

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Dave,
You should get a name for your special pivots and always link to the description of the parameters of such pivots when you tell people to pivot.

Because your description is not of common understanding.

And you insisted on us being able to know how to 'pivot from the tip back'? (Shaking head). Seems more like pivoting one's head from reality when called out for making an impossible claim.

Cheers,
Colin

What really is an "impossible" claim? Determined by whom... the poster or the reader? Is the definition of "impossible" subjective based on one's playing ability? I can describe it just fine and execute it in a lovely fashion. If you can't see it....if you can't do it....maybe you're just not developed enough yet. That certainly wouldn't make the claim impossible in general, only for you.

That's like me listening to Phil Mickelson describe his hinge and hold system of pitching to get exact distance and when i try it, all I do is skull the ball. Is he making an impossible claim or maybe, just maybe, I'm not ready for the information?

 

[Mirza]

Dave,
You should get a name for your special pivots and always link to the description of the parameters of such pivots when you tell people to pivot.

Because your description is not of common understanding.

And you insisted on us being able to know how to 'pivot from the tip back'? (Shaking head). Seems more like pivoting one's head from reality when called out for making an impossible claim.

Cheers,
Colin

What Dave is talking about (pivoting differences) is described in this video of his, I think, he can correct me if I'm wrong:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij38hYBti4c