Feb 10th $30 9Ball Waco,TX

Dear Ray,

I have read several of the comments regarding the Waco tournament and there appears to be a solution. It may appear ridiculous at first, but this change would create a perfectly fair atmosphere and possibly increase the amount in the calcutta.

Instead of seeding a select few players based upon the calcutta, why not seed everyone. For example, if player (a) sells for $300 in the calcutta and they are the highest bid, then they will play player (b) who sold for the least. Then the second highest player in the calcutta will play the second lowest. And so on, and so on. So, in order to avoid playing the top player, you'd better bid yourself up.

I will say regarding Zach's comment that I wasn't aware of the "greens fee" applied to the tournament. So, if it is true that $10 is taken from every entry, then $480 (minimum) is going to the establishment. Though I've seen this in several other tournaments, it definitely is nice to know ahead of time that a greens fee is in place.

Though I am only one player, I unfortunately will not be able to attend until the situation regarding the seeding of specific players is addressed. Though anyone in the tournament can run out, it's obvious some players are more accomplished than others. If these players are so accomplished, then they should have the experience and steadiness to deal with a "bad draw."
 
I think Ray is a stand up guy. He is doing great things to help pool in Texas. He should get paid from the events he created and runs, I don't think what he is getting is in any way out of line. He even took the time to Video the finals!

I do have to agree that the whole council thing is a bit odd to me in logic. Like in Jason's case. He is a very strong player but like mentioned by Zach he did not place in the money this last tournament. Why should he be banned? The original advertisement was no one that has finished 5/6th at a Fast Eddie's event or a compareable one. Even if there is an "honest" council, the decision is arbitrary. If a player is that good indeed, in that he should be barred, then he will eventaully make a 5/6th finish. If not and he wins two months in a row at the Waco event, oh wait yea you have to sit out a month if you win. If he wins every other month 3 times in a row then I think that would justify the banning of a player, maybe not even that. Known ability I don't think can be a means to ban a player, there are plenty of strong players in the tournament, big deal. Well just my 2 cents.

As far as the seeding of the tournament I think that the top picks should be split but after that then it should not matter, thats why it's double elimination.

Hmm,

Eric.A.
 
Ray
I Think If You Would Have Made It Clear That You Were Taking 10.00 For A Green Fee You Wouldnt Have A Problem With Some Of The Players Complaining. Also I Think You Should Just Let Everyone Draw Their Numbers And Leave The Seeding Out Of It, That Way No One Feels That They Are On The Wrong Side Of The Fence. Also The Commitee That Determines Who Can Play Or Not Is Or Maybe Like A Popularity Contest Because There Are People That Have Played In The Tournament That Did Not Do Any Good And Now They Can No Longer Play In Your Event For One Reason Or Another, And I Am Not Just Talking About Jason. There Is Also Tony Barrington And A Few Others That You And The Commitee Have Voted Out Because Of Their Reputation Of Being $$ Players. I Would Think That If Someone Played In Your Tournament Becuase They Did Meet Your Qualifications That They Could Still Be Able To Play In It. I Understand Jason Did Beat Snake Down There But That Has Nothing To Do With Him Playing In The Tournament. Like Zach Said He Went Real High In The Auction And Didnt Do Worth A Flip, Now He Cant Play Again Because He Beat Snake Down There Is Kind Of Strange. Also Tony Went Down There And Didnt Even Come In The Money And Now He Cant Play At All , Where Is The Logic In That....i Am Just Curious About The Way Things Are Going To Be Done ....ray You Run A Good Tournament But If Your Going To Have Qualifications And Requisites For The Tournament Dont Change It As It Goes On.
 
That tourny was the nuts. And on Jason's concern, He could have given anyone in the room the last two and had the best of it. The council Idea sounds fair to me. Oh and as far as the Zach," sorry you didn't do so good ", I think what that sounds like to me is," if you ended up buying Joe Mac in the auction and came out like 500 winner you wouldn't be complaining about anything. I know I wouldn't. I would just want to know when the next one is so I can be there on time. Ray was a super nice guy throughout the tourny and the money wasn't even close to that bad for a one day thing. The places paid were great and the auciton wasn't nearly as low as I thought it would be. Oh and Zach, every tourny I've been to, 10% is standard for the cut of the auction. IF you think taking a cut of the auction is illegal, you're semi correct.

The whole auction is illegal. But I didn't see anyone shying away form it. I didn't hear anyone complaining that there was 10% taken. Especially since 10% is like 160. 160 out of 1600 isn't that huge of a chunk.

Ray you ran a great tourny. That's why it's filled every month. I look foward to seeing you next month.

Tony
 
rack'em zach'em said:
I want everyone to know all I want is fairness and consistency.

For example, Jason Pearce is a good player and everyone knows that. However, last month he was allowed to play. He came down and played and went for 300+ in the Calcutta out of his pocket, plus the entry fee of $30, and didn't even come close to getting in the money. A couple of weeks later on the way back from a fast eddies tournament Jason stops in Waco and plays "Snake" whatever his real name is...point is the top "dawg" in town. Point blank Jason beat Snake and the next thing you know he's not allowed to play in the Waco tournament any more, which previously stated that you couldn't play if you had finished 5th-6th or better in any major tournament. To this date Jason has done no such thing, but he's not allowed to play in the tournament now.

Then there are girls who want to play who play on the women’s tour. I've personally seen some women who could run my butt all up and down a pool table, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to play. You made qualifications for the tournament and didn't stick with them. This isn't one of those things where you make up the rules as you go along.

I understand the whole council thing being anonymous because no one likes a rat, but how do we know who's on the council, and if there really is one. Or is it a couple Waco locals sitting in their garage saying oh no, he shouldn't play, we can't beat him.
Click to expand...

I'm one of the council members and yes it does exist.

Ray is a straight up guy and does this because he loves pool and believe me it is not for the few bucks he makes doing this. For you to insinuate that there is no council is offensive and very wrong.
 
Tournament

Thanks to everyone for your responses!

This entire tournament was put together and made possible by all of you. Your input is a large part of how it is run. The input from other tournament directors was also invaluable. The breakdown of the entry fee WAS on the flyer, however it did not get updated in time. To my knowledge It is still not updated. This is not controlled by me, however I could have followed up better to ensure it was updated. To those that were bothered by this, I apologize.

There was no seeding done this month. The top picks were randomly drawn in seperate brackets, therefore no changes were made. Most people have indicated they prefer seeding the top picks, some don't. We could do it either way as far as I'm concerned.

As for the council. In my opinion it added more to the event by making the playing field more mid-level. The council is anonymous to prevent lobying. Some that had 5-6th finishes were voted in,some that didn't were voted out.


Thanks again to everyone!

Ray
 
What I'm saying is do the math:

Calcutta - $200
Ring Game - $100
Green Fee - $480
Total - $780

The look on your face when you read this - $$$$$Priceless$$$$$

I know the math and once again it's not about the numbers it's about how it's being done with the brackets and all. This was the first time I've lost anything going down there. I'm still up even. I just think $780 is rediculous to be taken for any tournament. Now there is no Calcutta?
 
rack'em zach'em said:
What I'm saying is do the math:

Calcutta - $200
Ring Game - $100
Green Fee - $480
Total - $780

The look on your face when you read this - $$$$$Priceless$$$$$

I know the math and once again it's not about the numbers it's about how it's being done with the brackets and all. This was the first time I've lost anything going down there. I'm still up even. I just think $780 is rediculous to be taken for any tournament. Now there is no Calcutta?
Click to expand...



WOW......

Tony<-----------doesn't really care.
 
rack'em zach'em said:
What I'm saying is do the math:

Calcutta - $200
Ring Game - $100
Green Fee - $480
Total - $780

The look on your face when you read this - $$$$$Priceless$$$$$

I know the math and once again it's not about the numbers it's about how it's being done with the brackets and all. This was the first time I've lost anything going down there. I'm still up even. I just think $780 is rediculous to be taken for any tournament. Now there is no Calcutta?
Click to expand...

Why is there no calcutta?
 
Wait a second Ray now your saying you randomly seated everyone when you said before the Calcutta that the top picks would be put in different parts of the bracket? Wow! which one was it? You told us one thing and did another?

Ray all I'm asking is for things to be fair. Like everyone else I enjoy the tournament, but we are lacking some serious communication. Everyone doesn't own their own company we are all coming down to win. If you want to make money by running this tournament play in it. You did once before and from what I'm remember you did well.

Zach
 
Zack Ballas read the post.

rack'em zach'em said:
Wait a second Ray now your saying you randomly seated everyone when you said before the Calcutta that the top picks would be put in different parts of the bracket? Wow! which one was it? You told us one thing and did another?

Ray all I'm asking is for things to be fair. Like everyone else I enjoy the tournament, but we are lacking some serious communication. Everyone doesn't own their own company we are all coming down to win. If you want to make money by running this tournament play in it. You did once before and from what I'm remember you did well.

Zach
Click to expand...

Read the post Zach......They came up seeded randomly. No need to move anybody.
 
Your Good at math!

rack'em zach'em said:
What I'm saying is do the math:

Calcutta - $200
Ring Game - $100
Green Fee - $480
Total - $780

The look on your face when you read this - $$$$$Priceless$$$$$

I know the math and once again it's not about the numbers it's about how it's being done with the brackets and all. This was the first time I've lost anything going down there. I'm still up even. I just think $780 is rediculous to be taken for any tournament. Now there is no Calcutta?
Click to expand...

Now, why don't you itemize for everyone the expenses and time to put an event like this together........Oh wait a minute......you've never done it.... and never will....if you think $780. gross is a lot of money!

I think LPAC said it best.......Quit your whining!
 
$780 for a one day event is highway robbery or should I say a day and a half. By the way Lui was making a mockery of the tables. At least you admitted you took $780.
 
Oh yeah I worked in two different pool halls for 4 years I've run plenty of big and small tournaments. Stop crying like a baby, just face the facts . You're embarassed for taking that much money and now you want to push everything over on me. Did David Koresh white wash your brain to? Last time I checked $780 is a good amount for most people in todays society. Oh yeah, and even if you put 24 hours into the tournament that's still more than $20 an hour. I think you need to check with the FED and see what minimum wage really is.
 
Oh yeah, one more thing stop trying to change the subject Ray. My point was you said one thing and you did another. Ask anyone who was at the tournament in the room at the little Chinese place. You said they would be put in different parts of the bracket, and now your admitting they weren't.

By the way go ahead and tell all of us above the cost out of your pocket that it takes to run the tournament. Let's see there is gas and time (now remember you make less than minimum wage) $5.25 hour. Don't tell me there is flyers because God himself knows I haven't seen any. So take out the generous $20 for gas and that leaves $760/$5.25= 145 hours (and to that with my closing statement ) "I say BS!"
 
I'm offering a sincere suggestion that you back way off of this.

You don't like the money, the math, the man...whatever, don't play.

Other than that, quit stiring the pot on the board.
 
Keep up the good work

There was no tournament, no money, and no action in the area. Then Ray started a small monthly tournament and it has grown. Just last month the problem was too many people for a one day event. The tournaments have run as smooth as one can expect. The payout has been great and though I think it is impossible, Ray’s efforts to maintain a true B tournament have gone for beyond expectations. It takes work and a lot of time not just one Sat. a month. Ray I don’t care if your getting rich off the tournament just keep up the good work. I have enjoyed every tournament that I have attended and hope to attend many more. When you have people driving from all over the state you are doing something right. You should give yourself a raise because without you were back to nothing.

Tim Byrum
 
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TIMBER1 said:
There was no tournament, no money, and no action in the area. Then Ray started a small monthly tournament and it has grown. Just last month the problem was too many people for a one day event. The tournaments have run as smooth as one can expect. The payout has been great and though I think it is impossible, Ray’s efforts to maintain a true B tournament have gone for beyond expectations. It takes work and a lot of time not just one Sat. a month. Ray I don’t care if your getting rich off the tournament just keep up the good work. I have enjoyed every tournament that I have attended and hope to attend many more. When you have people driving from all over the state you are doing something right. You should give yourself a raise because without you were back to nothing.

Tim Byrum
Click to expand...

I agree with Tim on this. Ray does one hell of a job of putting together an event where the field is tough but not out of reach for everyone. That's the main reason that me and Jesus have been going down for just about all of the tournaments Ray's put on. Ray is consistently getting people from D/FW, Denton, Austin, and Houston. He's had people drive in from Odessa and now, Tony and Frank I'm sure will be going to be making the drive in from San Antonio. Hell...if that doesn't speak for itself, I don't know what else to say.

- Juan
 
Mystick Cue Fan said:
That tourny was the nuts. And on Jason's concern, He could have given anyone in the room the last two and had the best of it. The council Idea sounds fair to me. Oh and as far as the Zach," sorry you didn't do so good ", I think what that sounds like to me is," if you ended up buying Joe Mac in the auction and came out like 500 winner you wouldn't be complaining about anything. I know I wouldn't. I would just want to know when the next one is so I can be there on time. Ray was a super nice guy throughout the tourny and the money wasn't even close to that bad for a one day thing. The places paid were great and the auciton wasn't nearly as low as I thought it would be. Oh and Zach, every tourny I've been to, 10% is standard for the cut of the auction. IF you think taking a cut of the auction is illegal, you're semi correct.

The whole auction is illegal. But I didn't see anyone shying away form it. I didn't hear anyone complaining that there was 10% taken. Especially since 10% is like 160. 160 out of 1600 isn't that huge of a chunk.

Ray you ran a great tourny. That's why it's filled every month. I look foward to seeing you next month.

Tony
Click to expand...

This is the last I will respond to this and I respond now only because I believe in Ray and what he is doing. He is a fair and honerst man and is busting his ass to be so.

Firstly, there is no council. There is a small group of us who vote on players. I'll not mention the other names, but I will say that nobody {in their right mind} would be dissappointed in the others as they play real well and are very respected.

We get a list of people and cast individual votes. We don't discuss or debate the issue at all. We vote strictly on their level of play.

This idea was mine and not Rays. I brought up the idea because I had been in this situation before and felt it was not fair for Ray to take all the heat for these decisions.

I vote on a players level of play and I don't base it on tournament results or gamblling results. Simply, their level of play and I feel I know a little about that.

Seeding the highest picks in the "AUCTION" I feel is a very good idea as it promotes those who participate to do so even more. What ist does do is prevents the top two from playing each other in early rounds and gives the buyers a bigger bang for thier bucks. Granted, this is a bold move and not something which is going to be popular with everyone, but, it is a good move for the AUCTION as they have become stagnant around here and need a breath of fresh air.

Ray does this because he loves the game and he is a natural promoter. Money has little or nothing to do with it. As I am sure Eydie would agree, pool needs more things like this to promote the game and get players ready for bigger steps and bigger events.

Promoting pool and directing tournaments is not brain surgery but it is tougher than most realize. One must stay very enrgetic and creative to keep energy sparked and participation to a maximum. It is hard detailed work. Granted many of us get caught up trying to re-invent the whell at times, but we can't be too closed minded either.

Pool is a great game and has been my passion for over 35 years. I'm still competitive and hope I always will be. The game/sport needs all the Rays we can find. My suggestion is, don't critisise until you have walked a mile in his moccasins.

Lewis Jones
Fast Eddies 9-Ball Tour
 
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