Ferall length

P

poolgoddess

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can any of you cue masters, tell me why, the difference in the
length of feralls, has gone from 1" to much less? Does this have
any effect on the hit, or is this the way it is with the cues being made
today?
 
Shorter ferrules weigh less than longer ferrules and the decrease of weight at the end of the cue reduces deflection.
 
ferrule length

Most ferrules replace the weight lost during the removal of the maple when cutting a tendon. Deflection is the most misnomer used over the last ten years. Using shorter ferrules cost less.
Best wishes
Robert Harris
 
  • Like
Reactions: JC
harris cue comp said:
Most ferrules replace the weight lost during the removal of the maple when cutting a tendon. Deflection is the most misnomer used over the last ten years. Using shorter ferrules cost less.
Best wishes
Robert Harris
Click to expand...

Maybe that is why you use shorter ferrules. I don't care what the ferrule costs but I do care how the cue performs and a shaft with a lighter weight ferrule causes less deflection than a heavier ferrule. I watched Ginky shoot a ball into a side pocket with inside english and he missed the ball the first two times. There was a brass weight under the ferrule.. Predator has made a lot of money with their LD shafts which feature long tapers and greatly reduced tip weight. Ferrrule material is heavier than wood so less ferrule, less weight.
 
ferrules

Maybe the first thing you do isn't attack. Please tell me how many shafts you have weighed before and after ferrule installation. I take the extra time to weigh the cue after any changes.
Best wishes
Robert Harris
 
deflection

No such thing as deflection in a cue. Royce. God rest his soul, agreed 100 percent. Your use and others have perpetrated the myth.
Best wishes
Robert Harris
 
Less weight, less deflection. Deflection is real, and measurable. You can debate how much very subtle differences in deflection will matter, but you cannot honestly avoid the fact that it exists.
 
Last edited:
harris cue comp said:
Maybe the first thing you do isn't attack. Please tell me how many shafts you have weighed before and after ferrule installation. I take the extra time to weigh the cue after any changes.
Best wishes
Robert Harris
Click to expand...

I have never weighed a single one. Why should I. To make it really simple. Ferrule material sinks in water, maple floats. I am having a hard time believing you are serious.
 
Last edited:
Bad answer

The maple floats answer was a poor choice... A quarter inch block of maple floats - so does a full bar of ivory soap. If a 5 gram ferrule sinks, and a maple log floats - is the ferrule heavier? No. You are talking about bouyancy. That doesn't apply in this debate.
 
Specific gravity dictates a material's weight in relation to its size. There should be no debate on whether ferrule materials are heavier than maple, because it's fact. Anybody who doubts it can cut a piece of maple & ferrule material the same dimensions & weigh them.

There should be no debate on deflection, either. It's not a perpetrated myth. It's 8th grade physics. The area I will concede some ground on is in exactly what factors in to cue deflection. I don't believe it's as simple as tip end mass, though I do wholly accept that tip end mass is a critical factor. There is absolutely zero doubt that when the tip touches the cue ball off center, the ball moves one direction and the tip moves the other direction. That's deflection. It's real. The Earth isn't flat and we did put a man on the moon.

Given that tip end mass is a factor, and ferrule material has higher specific gravity than the maple from which the shaft is made, it's only logical that minimizing the amount of material used will thus minimize the amount of impact it has on cue ball deflection.
 
poolgoddess said:
Can any of you cue masters, tell me why, the difference in the
length of feralls, has gone from 1" to much less? Does this have
any effect on the hit, or is this the way it is with the cues being made
today?
Click to expand...

While I'm no master, I will attempt to keep the thread on track & explain why I personally changed to a shorter ferrule.

I have always loved the way a cue played & felt when the tip is glued directly to wood, no ferrule. However, I also prefer hard tips cut short. That makes for a disaster waiting to happen, so some type of ferrule is a must. I also really like the classic look of a 1" white ferrule. What I did was found a material that felt & reacted much like maple, but was much stronger. I used a 3/8-10 threaded tenon and the ferrule was thru-type, meaning it was basically just a threaded sleeve. It's purpose was merely to reinforce the maple under it. Life was good.

Several years ago the manufacturer quit producing that material. I tried everything imaginable to replace it but nothing was as good. Either it wasn't strong enough or else it was too plastic in feel. With no other choice, I took the material that felt good but was too brittle, and I shortened the ferrule length while decreasing the tenon size. The result was a very close hit & feel to what I always had before, but with a short ferrule rather than the 1" I prefer.

That's why I went to a short ferrule. Other guys may have other reasons. Like Paul, cost was not a factor. I'd gladly pay many times more for my old material than I do for the stuff available now, but it's gone forever. It was either find a solution or quit making making cues. I seriously contemplated quitting.
 
Bad answer

Just to clarify- I meant no disrespect. I just thought that the argument needed to be framed differently and thoughtfully. I absolutely did not direct my answer to Mr. Dayton. I own some of his cues and greatly respect him. I have modeled some of my cue building from his theory about never using anything but phenolics as join the collars - certainly nothing derived from thermoplastic which is softer. I want my cues to have a certain resonance and feedback. Having said that - I do know that deflection is a real thing. I deal with it every day, as I shoot with an ivory ferrule and traditional maple shaft. I do however have a low deflection shaft of my design that I make for my customers if they choose.
 
Rafael Martinez told me he was the one who told Predator to reduce the length to 3/4 of an inch from 1".
Bustamante also preferred a shorter ferrule.
I used to think they looked funky.
Now, 1" ferrules look funky to me.

Shorter ferrules do not really cost the cue maker less for the most part.
I used to just buy 1" long ferrules and just shorten them.
Now, I make my own. Believe me the labor time in making them does not save me a dollar. I'm better off buying stock ferrules.
But, I don't like the stock 5/16 18 1" long threaded ferrules these days.
I prefer mine between 5/8 and 3/8 and no cap. So I make my own.

If you make enough cues and test ferrules you will probably end up making your own. If you have an un-cored ebony cue, you will probably find out a 1" long capped melamine, Ivor-X or Ivory ferrule will ping a ton with it. You might find that too hard and switch to a softer and shorter ferrule with no cap.

The deflection issue was settled a long time ago in the Jacksonville Experiment.
MORE END MASS, MORE CUE BALL SQUIRT. That physics cannot be argued against anymore. Sorry.
 
In 1998 I dabbled in a few carom shafts. After talking with a few billiards players about why they preferred the shorter ferrule I decided to go with it on all my shafts.
After a long conversation with the Dali Lama on this radical new concept I was convinced I was on to something. Hence anyone using this radical idea on their pool cue shafts after 1998 are just copying me for what I all ready knew.
True story.......well mostly.
But isn't it really about the story anyway?
:wink:
 
My guess is ferules got shorter for the same reason joints and butt caps did. Maybe not why the original person tried it but it's not hard to have a strong following at 60 cents on the dollar.

JC
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
In 1998 I dabbled in a few carom shafts. After talking with a few billiards players about why they preferred the shorter ferrule I decided to go with it on all my shafts.
After a long conversation with the Dali Lama on this radical new concept I was convinced I was on to something. Hence anyone using this radical idea on their pool cue shafts after 1998 are just copying me for what I all ready knew.
True story.......well mostly.
But isn't it really about the story anyway?
:wink:
Click to expand...
Mine floats and swims on water.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top