Ferrule "less" cues good?

[cannon9313]

From what I understand and have been told there are two purposes for a traditional ferrule. One is to keep the end grain of the shaft from mushrooming (and splintering) when the tip is compacted. The second is to keep chalk off of the shaft. A large number of the pool population chalks wrong, you can see it very easily by how dirty their ferrule is

A shaft with a carbon or fiber pad has the ability to play great. It depends on the grade of the wood, the weight and taper. Predator, ob and tiger have laminated shafts and used lighter ferrules to reduce deflection.

 

[Scott Lee]

cannon9313...Nope...chalk on the shaft comes from the chalk dust in the cloth, which is absorbed into your hand, as well as the oil & dirt from your bridge hand...not the ferrule.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

The second is to keep chalk off of the shaft. A large number of the pool population chalks wrong, you can see it very easily by how dirty their ferrule is .

 

[branpureza]

I think you're saying: "I cracked two ferrules with pads in 10 years. Imagine the number if I didn't use pads!"
Freddie

Kinda, but with this last one there was no pad. Evidently the last guy to install my tip forgot to apply one. The pads he uses are black and the tip was black so I didn't really take a good look. Ernie told me about the lack of a pad when I sent the shaft to him to have the ferrule replaced. As far as the other one goes, it was so long ago I don't really remember.

and I'm saying: "Ivory ferrules crack even with the use of pads. I don't think pads are doing what people think they do."
Freddie

So because some padded ivory ferrules crack this must mean all pads are ineffective and have absolutely no benefit at all?

Isn't that tantamount to dismissing seatbelts because sometimes people die in car wrecks with them on anyway?

 

[JoseV]

Not sure if this was posted but the fibre pads on ivory ferrules are there to help with the compression it absorbs from striking the CB. The ivory ferrules are brittle so the pads help make them a little stronger and less likely to chip.

I always been a Ivory ferrule guy. I never even gave it a thought to non ferrule shafts.

 

[JimS]

I have had SW cues, Sailor cues, ob shafts, Predator shafts, Starkey cues/shafts, all with no ferrule and I prefer the hit and the playability. Spend a few bucks, try it, see if you like it.

 

[Cornerman]

So because some padded ivory ferrules crack this must mean all pads are ineffective and have absolutely no benefit at all?

Isn't that tantamount to dismissing seatbelts because sometimes people die in car wrecks with them on anyway?

Funky trap you've smithed yourself into. My posts are still on this thread.

 

[rayjay]

For a low deflection shaft, I prefer ferrule-less shafts...I like it much better than plywood. I've played Black Boar's and Joe Callaluca's and both are really, really good. I sold the BB, but kept the JC. Whenever I change tips on it, I always use a fiber pad. The choice of shaft wood is important...dense, heavy, the more growth rings the better.

 

[branpureza]

Funky trap you've smithed yourself into. My posts are still on this thread.

"smithed"?

Grandiloquence isn't for everyone Freddy. Try again. Haha

I don't have a disagreement with this, but I have my own thoughts on the fiber pad, but they're not important for this discussion. People, IMO, should use a fiber pad with an ivory ferrule, no ferrule, wood ferrule... and it's not a bad idea to have a fiber pad on a regular ferrule for all the same reasons that aren't associated with cracking ivory.
Freddie <~~~ that's what I was thinking

Had to go back and re-read all of your posts...

I didn't see this one.

Makes more sense now.

 

[CoachDitka2001]

Seems like the reason for a ferrule is common sense, historically speaking. If you didn't have some sort of ferrule and ended up damaging your shaft, you would have to shorten the shaft to repair it. With some sort of ferrule, hopefully more durable than wood, you have a tougher, replaceable piece should damage occur. The ferrule would also spread the impact of the ball out over the surface of the end of the shaft.

So the question now is, would a fiber pad prevent shaft damage if you have no ferrule? Obviously it would not spread the impact of the ball out to any degree, and its anyone's guess as to its effectiveness at preventing the end of the shaft from splitting.

So, do we still need ferrules, and if so, can we shorten them? Historically, materials such as ivory and bone were obviously a bit brittle. I'm sure at some point a certain length was determined to be needed to prevent cracking. With modern materials we can probably have a shorter ferrule that would be less likely to crack, while still protecting the the end of the shaft and being replaceable. On the other hand my Predator shaft with a short ferrule has cracks that would beg to differ...

Anyway, all this is moot if you play a relatively soft game. Play with or without a ferrule and just don't hit hard enough to do any damage. I can bet, however, if you gave a ferrule-less shaft to one of the guys on my APA team he would damage the thing in a month or two.

-Dave

 

[cannon9313]

cannon9313...Nope...chalk on the shaft comes from the chalk dust in the cloth, which is absorbed into your hand, as well as the oil & dirt from your bridge hand...not the ferrule.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Scott what I was referring to is without a standard ferrule most people's chalking method would put a large amount of chalk onto the shaft. Which would cause some serious problems. I not talking about the discoloring of use over time from the chalk on the table and your hands. Have you ever noticed the ring of chalk halfway down most peoples ferrules (and every house cue)? The wood of a shaft would not hold up to this abuse like a standard ferrule can.

 

[Luther Blissett]

I have been using Z2 with .4" ferrule or a Starkey w/no ferrule and I like them both cosmetically and believe they are more accurate than "regular" ferrules. It's a bad idea to break with them and it's a good idea to have a fiber pad under the tip.

Hell yeah, you should NEVER break with a Z shaft. ...They play very nicely though.

 

[Cornerman]

Seems like the reason for a ferrule is common sense, historically speaking. If you didn't have some sort of ferrule and ended up damaging your shaft, you would have to shorten the shaft to repair it. With some sort of ferrule, hopefully more durable than wood, you have a tougher, replaceable piece should damage occur. The ferrule would also spread the impact of the ball out over the surface of the end of the shaft.

So the question now is, would a fiber pad prevent shaft damage if you have no ferrule? Obviously it would not spread the impact of the ball out to any degree, and its anyone's guess as to its effectiveness at preventing the end of the shaft from splitting.e

So, do we still need ferrules, and if so, can we shorten them?

Historically, the ferrule was on the cue before the tip was in invented. Given that evolution, does that give your thoughts any change?

If the tip was the predecessor, I would probably be 100% in tune with your post. But since it didnt, then there's a little gap.

Maybe the pad is necessary as long as there's a tip high enough. Maybe we need a 1mm cap instead of a pad. But, I don't think a ferrule is necessary at all.

Freddie <~~~ will break withe ferrule-less just to find out

 

[Joqpub4]

Starkey

I've broken and played with a Starkey ferruless shaft cue... Wizard medium on a carbon fiber pad. Cue plays jam up... breaks VERY well... it's currently in my wife's case since the only cue I've seen her break better (not a real hard hitter) with is the BK2 I just picked up.

I think the play has something to do with the taper chuck used and the shaft itself (a piece of birdseye)... its a cue that he said, if you want a clear shaft, don't buy...

It is interesting, I play with multiple cues (Predator 314, Tiger ultra LD, and a bunch of regular maple including ivory ferrules) so I go from 'low deflection' to 'higher deflection'... the starkey is a cue, that more than just about any other, i have confidence in the long straight shots. It puts the cue ball exactly where I want it...

What I'd say more than anything is, if you haven't tried it and have a few bucks to throw around... it is worth trying.

-Joe

PS - why did it come out of my case?? Primarily it's the 1/2 - 8 wood pin. It's the only cue I have like that and in leagues/tourneys, i didn't want to take the chance of popping the tip off of my shooter and having to go to an entirely different cue. In the long run, if I need work done on it, it'll go back to Chuck and come back with a second shaft. I have multiple shafts for every other cue I own...