ferrules

whammo57

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
Ok ... so we have discussed on this forum the merits of capped, uncapped, threaded, unthreaded ferrules.

For my security blanket, I thread ferrules 5/16-18. I have never had a problem with any of these. Sometimes I cap them and sometimes I don't. I can't really tell the different in the hit between them.

I see on recent posts that some CB's are using uncapped and unthreaded ferrules. Some use a 5/16-18 and even a 3/8-16 thread. Some use a 3/8 tenon and slip it on. That leaves about a 90 thou wall. Has anyone experienced a crack or split in these thin walled ferrules?

Are there any common problem with any of these methods? Is one better than the other???

I ask because I have replaced Meucci ferrules that have split and they are thin walled - slip on.

thanks

Kim
 
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Thin walled, uncapped are just begging for trouble. I do not and have not done them that way because of all the trouble that caused Meucci back in the 80s and 90's before they changed their method.
 
I've experimented with the different installations and as long as the materals are the same, I myself couldn't really tell a difference in the hit. For myself it's more about the ferrule materal used. If I were to use a big tenon, thin walled ferrule, I'd only do this if I was confident in the ferrule itself. The more prone a material is to cracking, the more I lean toward capping.
 
I've cracked thin walled melamine.
Juma and Mason's micarta are the only two materials I'd do it on.

I thread mine.
In a perfect world, wood wouldn't expand and contract.
Glue bond is good but mechanical bond with glue bond is better imo.

I like the way the ferrules sit when threaded.
I like the way collars, buttcaps and ferrules sit in place when threaded right.
And that the epoxy fills the threads resulting in a great mating of two materials.
I've never seen a tenon break b/c it has threads.
I've seen a lot of ferrules have nasty glue gap at the bottom b/c the ferrule moved.
Including a top threaded McDermott ( they only thread the top ).
 
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Hi Kim,

Every high skilled player I ever built a cue for specifically requested un capped ferrules. Customer feed back is something I like to factor in when I make a decision like your tread asks, " cap or not to cap".

I am just an average pool player because my game is 3 Cushion. I don't have the pool skills to know the difference in play because carom cues have very short ferrules ( under 1/2" ). Ray Schuller however never caped or threaded his ferrules and there is a whole list of 12 world champion players who preferred and used his cues including Mr. 100, Raymond Ceulemans.

Just Food for thought about threading.

I don't cap or thread my ferrules either and file 7 v grooves for glue keyways on the tenon. I have been doing a fairly large cue repair business for over 9 years at my pool hall Main Street Billiards and have replaced a very high number of ferrules as well as all of the new ferrules on the 140 cues or so I have built, many with two shafts.

I have not seen a single ferrule fail due to the install gluing procedure. Threading tenons in my opinion serves no practical purpose other than a feel good extra step or some kind of insurance for the CMs peace of mind. I trust the epoxy and my procedural control that has been proven to my mind over many years of successful outcome results. In fact there could be a case made that the threading of a tenon with a compression die on the thin tenons can stress it because it tends to over torque the wood unless you undersize the dia. Live threading would be the better way to say the least if one's views are 180 degrees from my prospectus.

The other factor is that due to this many people put wax on the tenon to make the job cut easier. The last time I checked wax and epoxy don't create the best bonding interfaces. If my ferrules where coming lose or failing I would be singing a different tune.

There are enough steps one needs to take to build a cue. I for one wish to remove as many steps as I can while maintaining sound engineering practice. Ferrules are an area that I myself know that this minimalist mindset is an advantage. One can over engineer something and that can lead to problems. Have you ever cut a threaded ferrule off during a repair job and noticed that sometimes they fly off leaving the threads exposed. I have. I don't remember ever seen that happen when cutting a thru tenon ferrule. They always turn down all of the way to the wood.

JMO,

Rick
 
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scdiveteam said:
Hi Kim,

Every high skilled player I ever built a cue for specifically requested un capped ferrules. Customer feed back is something I like to factor in when I make a decision like your tread asks, " cap or not to cap".

I am just an average pool player because my game is 3 Cushion. I don't have the pool skills to know the difference in play because carom cues have very short ferrules ( under 1/2" ). Ray Schuller however never caped or threaded his ferrules and there is a whole list of 12 world champion players who preferred and used his cues including Mr. 100, Raymond Ceulemans.

Just Food for thought about threading.

I don't cap or thread my ferrules either and file 7 v grooves for glue keyways on the tenon. I have been doing a fairly large cue repair business for over 9 years at my pool hall Main Street Billiards and have replaced a very high number of ferrules as well as all of the new ferrules on the 140 cues or so I have built, many with two shafts.

I have not seen a single ferrule fail due to the install gluing procedure. Threading tenons in my opinion serves no practical purpose other than a feel good extra step or some kind of insurance for the CMs peace of mind. I trust the epoxy and my procedural control that has been proven to my mind over many years of successful outcome results. In fact there could be a case made that the threading of a tenon with a compression die on the thin tenons can stress it because it tends to over torque the wood unless you undersize the dia. Live threading would be the better way to say the least if one's views are 180 degrees from my prospectus.

The other factor is that due to this many people put wax on the tenon to make the job cut easier. The last time I checked wax and epoxy don't create the best bonding interfaces. If my ferrules where coming lose or fails I would be sing a different tune.

There are enough steps one needs to take to build a cue. I for one wish to remove as many steps as I can while maintaining sound engineering practice. Ferrules are an area that I myself know that this minimalist mindset is an advantage. One can over engineer something and that can lead to problems. Have you ever cut a threaded ferrule off during a repair job and noticed that sometimes they fly off leaving the threads exposed. I have. I don't remember ever seen that happen when cutting a thru tenon ferrule. They always turn down all of the way to the wood.

JMO,

Rick
Click to expand...

I know you don't thread or cap Rick.... and I think you build a solid cue.

I have seen the a threaded ferrule fly off when cutting and I have just picked off the glue left in the tenon threads. Never thought about it until you wrote it down here. Hmmmmm maybe that wax is not a good idea after all. What size tenon do you use? It looks big in your pics.

Kim
 
I've seen everything crack, at one point or another. Most of it is due to the ferrule material itself. Know what it is.

In addition, today's "plastics" are not like the PVC used years ago. They are fiberglass reinforced, light, and bad ass.

Also, I have a ferrule article coming out in www.cueandtable.com that may help. I believe it will be anther two part feature.

(Free to subscribe....)
 
whammo57 said:
I know you don't thread or cap Rick.... and I think you build a solid cue.

I have seen the a threaded ferrule fly off when cutting and I have just picked off the glue left in the tenon threads. Never thought about it until you wrote it down here. Hmmmmm maybe that wax is not a good idea after all. What size tenon do you use? It looks big in your pics.

Kim
Click to expand...

Hi Kim,

.308.

Rick
 
Choosing the way you install a ferrule is equally important as the way you choose a ferrule material. It's a science in cues that I see neglected more so than any other. The material you choose & the way you install it will GREATLY influence the way your cues will play & feel. The thinner wall & shorter you go, the less influence the ferrule has. Everything in between is infinitely variable.
 
ivory or bone

ivory
water buffalo horn
deer and elk and moose antler
camel bone
cap or un capped
threaded or un threaded

i normaly carry the old ivorine III threaded ferrules

taping ivory ferrule makes me nevous.

here is were guessing forgive for my bad spelling
i heard a story i think the cue makers last name was zieler.
and he did a lot of research and development on ferrules.
i also heard that one of you guys was right along side him learning too.
and that person knows a lot about ferrules.
if im wrong please correct me.
just a parts changer if i do somthing rights its because i was told to do it that way not because i know what im doing.

is there somthing to matching ferrules and tips to get a certain hit.
mike
 
I do not thread my ferrules on either. Also I keep the wall thickness between .060 and .070 regardless of O.D. I do them capped and uncapped, prefer capped myself as the uncapped, to me, seems to hit harder. May be my imagination, may not be. I do cut grooves in the tenon to hold more epoxy. Either way I have never, to my knowledge, had a ferrule crack due to thin wall or come loose because it was not threaded.

Bob Danielson
www.bdcuesandcomix.com
 
DoubleD said:
What glass-reinforced plastics do you use for ferrules?

dld
Click to expand...

The Porper ferrules have a fiberglass component. They are light and I've never seen one crack. Yes, they are softer than, say, the melamine ferrules but my cues hit on the stiff side.
 
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