Final from scott/dennis

Anyone who thinks that either of these guys should not be included in the circle of "worlds best one-pocket players" should either reevaluate their thinking, or get their eyes and brain examined.

That being said, the bottom line on this match was Scott Frost brought a knife to a gun fight. With the exception of the last 13 games of the first night when Scott outscored Dennis 10-3 after being down 5-0, Dennis simply had so much more fire-power than Scott had throughout. The 40-29 final score completely validates Dennis being the superior player in this match.
 
I think it's analysis, not criticism. Either of these guys (or any pro for that matter) would likely bury me alive. Doesn't mean I don't see what I see. You have one of the most knowledgeable one pocket players of all time in Frost, and one of the great pure shotmakers of this era in Orcollo. Frost played some amazing safeties, and made some great pockets himself. DO's safety play may not be as intricate as Frost, but he definitely elevated his game. Frost dogged a few key balls; this is not criticism but fact. He also left a few dead cluster shots that DO blasted, and if not for the fact that he played some crappy position, he would have ran all those tables out too. His shotmaking ability saved him, as much as Frost's misses. Misses when DO sold out big, and Scott likely routinely makes.

The other thing is you can't complain about table roll, chalk on rail, sticky balls, when it seemingly has no effect on the other player. Scott cleaned that CB seemingly every 4 shots, under no objection from DO. Then the one time DO cleans the ball, Scott is all over him like a pack of dogs on a 3-legged cat. I can see a legitimate beef, but I draw the line at pettiness.

I also never meant to imply that Gentile could take these guys on in a similar match. My point was that it was great to have some commentary from someone who plays the game at a high level. I think he placed second to Efren at the US Open one-pocket, don't know what year... so he can't be too horrible.
 
Some posters here expect perfect pool. Well thats not going to happen when they play 69 games. Some routine shots, some bad position play, and some poor safes will happen.

Overall Dennis played amazing, and Scott played good. He did miss some crucial shots, but its just part of the game. Look at 9-ball, Shaw, Shane, Dennis all will miss some routine shots through the course of the match.

I thoroughly enjoyed the match and hope to see more like this and less of players ducking unless it's a steal or an exhibition.
 
here's a reminder

Remember the quote from Theodore Roosevelt?

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

Kudos to both Scott and Dennis....
 
I placed no bet on this match, so I had no reason to root for someone. But I had a general feeling that Dennis was the underdog, especially in knowledge of the game, so I found myself hoping that he would do good.

If I had to pick one single thing in the match that made the difference, it was the long straight back banks. Dennis made an uncanny number of these which started many runs. Impossible not to leave someone long banks throughout the match.


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
wahcheck said:
Remember the quote from Theodore Roosevelt?

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

Kudos to both Scott and Dennis....
Click to expand...

Kudos, and great quote. But to put things in perspective, this is a glorified action match between two pros, neither who put up a majority of the their side of the money. This is not the Olympics, not the Super Bowl, not the FIFA World Cup. These two will not be defined by this one match (though I think Scott had more to lose other than money). Pretty historic match in the pool world, but a tiny blip in the world radar screen.

That said, this quote has been used extensively in sports and competition, when in fact this was Roosevelt's message to the leaders and upper-class of the day warning against ridiculing and belittling the "common man." Kind of opposite what's going on here. We're spectators, below the level of Orcollo and Frost, commenting on their performance, while looking UP to them, not the other way around.
 
louieatienza said:
... I also never meant to imply that Gentile could take these guys on in a similar match. My point was that it was great to have some commentary from someone who plays the game at a high level. I think he placed second to Efren at the US Open one-pocket, don't know what year... so he can't be too horrible.
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Yes, 2011.

And Gentile's co-commentator, Jeff Carter, also knows a bit about One-Pocket -- 2nd (to Ronnie Allen) in the 1984 Red's - Houston One-Pocket event, 1st (over Jimmy Fusco) in the 1993 Lexington All-Star One-Pocket event, and 2nd (to Jeremy Jones) in the 1998 US Open One-Pocket event.

[Source: One-Pocket.org -- https://www.onepocket.org/records.htm]
 
Get_A_Grip said:
If I had to pick one single thing in the match that made the difference, it was the long straight back banks. Dennis made an uncanny number of these which started many runs. Impossible not to leave someone long banks throughout the match.
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In addition, when the cueball was in the kitchen he made so many crossover banks on object balls downtable they were like automatics.
 
deanoc said:
If you expect more than this from two great players
yes,i think you expect too much

if dennis plays anty american i will have to bet on him


SVB vs Dennis O,i will take Dennis

Am I crazy,i thought it was terrific one pocket


I thought Dennis was at a very high level and scott was a little below him

People don't realize when you play a great player you don't get the opportunities to shine
every safety takes a great amount of skill to navigate

While gentile is a pretty good player,i don't think he can beat either of these 2

It disturbs me to see players criticized so much,the typical no player who couldn't beat either of these two gladiaters 18 to 5 is proud to call one or the other of these a dog for missing shots


What I love about pool is the step up or shut up

ask for a game and put up your dough,if you win you win,if you lose

you deserve the credit of trying


Frankly I would be afraid to match up with either of these two guys
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You put that very well.
 
Dennis played great. Scott played the worse I have ever seen him play honestly. He is 90% to win games where he has a 6 or 7 ball to 0 lead but lost a handful of them and about 10 other games that went down to the last ball or two between them. If he wins half those games the match is much closer. He simply did not perform to his capability.

I watched the whole match and some of it again while I edited video. It was a much closer match then the score shows because of all the games that could have went the other way and some Scott was huge favorite to win. He beat Dennis to the shot many times but did not punish him and run balls. He would run a few balls and get stuck or miss shots I have not seen him miss. Dennis won probably 85% of the game that went down to the last ball or two between them.

Scott and I talked earlier for about an hour as I drove him to the airport and they will play again down the road there is no question. Scott has a ton of heart but Dennis was the better player for 3 out of the 4 days. His banking and shot making were an awesome display and those who don't know one pocket well had to be impressed by it. It was still a hell of a match and great for all involved along with promoting pool and the game of one pocket.
 
AtLarge said:
Yes, 2011.

And Gentile's co-commentator, Jeff Carter, also knows a bit about One-Pocket -- 2nd (to Ronnie Allen) in the 1984 Red's - Houston One-Pocket event, 1st (over Jimmy Fusco) in the 1993 Lexington All-Star One-Pocket event, and 2nd (to Jeremy Jones) in the 1998 US Open One-Pocket event.

[Source: One-Pocket.org -- https://www.onepocket.org/records.htm]
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Both great players and some in the chat were talking as if these guys knew nothing about the game. Some clueless people in there and on here.
 
jay helfert said:
Took the words out of my mouth. Part of the game is adjusting to the conditions re: balls, cloth, rails, pockets and table rolls. Some players do this better than others. The Filipinos have to be good at this as conditions vary widely from room to room and day to day.
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You are correct Jay. There was powder all over the table as Dennis elected to not wear a glove that he usually uses and he kept placing the chalk upside down on the rail for some reason. This certainly affects conditions and I think Scott's stroke is more susceptible to balls skidding then Dennis. Scott had more then a handful of skids and Dennis had one the whole match.

Dennis hits the balls firmer with a more compact accurate stroke, he is very unlikely to get many skids like that. Scott spins balls and hits the balls softer with finesse along with a longer back swing which goes through the cue ball less accurately. Just my observation.
 
Fast Lenny said:
You are correct Jay. There was powder all over the table as Dennis elected to not wear a glove that he usually uses and he kept placing the chalk upside down on the rail for some reason. This certainly affects conditions and I think Scott's stroke is more susceptible to balls skidding then Dennis. Scott had more then a handful of skids and Dennis had one the whole match.

Dennis hits the balls firmer with a more compact accurate stroke, he is very unlikely to get many skids like that. Scott spins balls and hits the balls softer with finesse along with a longer back swing which goes through the cue ball less accurately. Just my observation.
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Lenny, my observation was, Scott let every little thing bother him!..Everybody is going to get a few skids now and then!..He just never really played up to his capabilities..Also, Dennis played about as good as anyone could play, and it was just too much to overcome!..He was far and away the best player throughout the match!

PS..I went off for a few bucks too!..I seriously misjudged DO's grasp of the game!..What did he miss, about 2 banks the entire session?..I don't think even Alex can beat him now! :rolleyes:
 
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you guys did a great job streaming and commentating that match, but why the hell is the excuse train rolling again? at mosconi it was the races, the breakrules and the weather, now the skids, the powder and frosts "unusual bad shooting"!
lets face it, it was a rt 40 and frost got outplayed in every department, heck it was 32 19 last 3 days where DO let it go a bit last day! isnt that the sign that DO was a class or 2 better? he adjusted his game, he was shooting awesome under pressure and he even was moving better..... thats what a real pro is doing!
im looking forward to the rematch, now that DO figured the freezer out lol
 
when I saw Dick had replied this morning I
was eager to see his comments

when I was a kid,Dick was a top player like Ronnie,Red or some of the others so I was looking forward to hearing his views

they were short and accurate,none of the critical foolishness that some are so frequently making,I was interested to see his evaluation of dennis,he was very complimentary of his play,stopping shport of saying he is the vest in the world but preferring him to Alex,which is close

Honestly fellas,if this guy is not the best or one of 2 or 3 in the world,who is?

after what I saw ,I would bet on him against any one

Who would you pick to beat him?
 
At the risk of showing my lack of knowledge

What causes a skid?

I get one ever so often when shooting easy but I never really could tell why?

Ignorant in Texas,but still willing to match up
dean
 
Alex would definitely need to bring his a-game to make it a battle.

Not sure one can ignore dennis' recent history of staying in action, vs alex, who we rarely hear about getting played.

Id like to see it though, no doubt about that.

And ftr, alex is the only pinoy that i think would be. Apt to match up with dennis, domestically.
 
Black-Balled said:
Alex would definitely need to bring his a-game to make it a battle.

Not sure one can ignore dennis' recent history of staying in action, vs alex, who we rarely hear about getting played.

Id like to see it though, no doubt about that.

And ftr, alex is the only pinoy that i think would be. Apt to match up with dennis, domestically.
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This is true..Alex would have to be ready to play, to give DO a good game..He's the only one I see that even has that potential!..None of the new young guns (Smith, Shaw, etc.) can compete with the way Dennis is playing right now..I would be surprised if they even tried!..But 'ego' can do strange things to pool players! :cool:
 
SJDinPHX said:
This is true..Alex would have to be ready to play, to give DO a good game..He's the only one I see that even has that potential!..None of the new young guns (Smith, Shaw, etc.) can compete with the way Dennis is playing right now..I would be surprised if they even tried!..But 'ego' can do strange things to pool players! :cool:
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Hey Dick,

How long do you think it might be till "Billy the Kid" jumps in to play one of these guys?

Lyn
 
a great learning tool;

If you had the pleasure and were fortunate enough to watch scott and denis play there best at this particular time was a real treat for those wanting to know more about this great game. after playing one pocket and watching some of the greats play this game there was much to be happy about regardless who won. I would like to thank the streamer and also the sponsors who brought this event to the public. I believe thru advertisements and good promotion of our great game more of this kind of competition can be brought to the people. Regardless of the complaining the competitors did the game justice with there extraordinary skills.
everyone misses, its about the timing. Pool is the greatest!:smile:
 
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