First time seeing my own stroke

monchiwai

monchiwai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
after 10 years playing pool, this is actually the first time I took a video and looked at my own stroke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKhJvyslwFc

I realize that when I draw or shoot center ball, I did not Elbow-drop. But when I follow, I did. Is this normal? I read many threads about elbow-drop but there seem to be no conclusion on which is correct.
I learned Pool by myself and no instructor whatsoever. So my fundamental is, bad.
I know the most important thing is to be able to make balls but am just surprised that my stroke went differently on different shots.

Any comments on my stroke is welcomed :)
 
I noticed the follow was with an open bridge.

I wonder if the front end "bridge" has an affect on the way your back end..."stroke arm" works.
 
BRKNRUN is on the money here. Somehow it's the idea of shooting follow or the different cue height on your bridge that affects your shooting. Watching your own shooting makes an immense difference in analyzing your own game. If you have a video player like VLC player which allows you to watch the videos in 1/2x or 1/4x slow motion, I'd recommend doing that.

But I think your stroke is very natural and relaxed and you have a really nice cueing action and followthrough. I would personally like you to take a bit slower practice strokes, your stroke preparation seems like you're in a hurry. I think it also might affect your stroke consistency. Thanks for sharing the vid :)
 
You asked, here is my opinion.

You hit every stroke with a de-accelerating cue stick. Watch your back hand come to a sudden stop at contact with the cue ball. That in turn causes a very tight grip, which you have. To fix this problem, allow your back hand to finish up on your body (chest) with a light grip.

Over all....not bad.
randyg
 
Your stroke is very solid, nice rythm, straight, alot of power there if you decided you wanted to spin the ball.

The elbow drop on the follow shots is part of the after contact followthrough and is totally fine, in fact it would be a detriment to try to limit/remove your followthrough, it would remove some of the power from that stroke and mess up your timing.

You have alot to work with there and I would not change much, if anyone tells you they want to alter things in your stroke I would think real hard about forgetting that. IMO you are at the point where shooting balls is key, shoot shots like in the video with top left, top right, bottom left, bottom right, center, get a feel for doing everything with the cueball for every shot and know how the various siding and spins effect the aim.

***********************************************************

On a completely unrelated note why in the sam hell do we not have pool halls like that in North America? That place looks friggin awesome, I mean REALLY freaking cool, aesome lighting, awesome marble columns, nice looking well spaced tables, great seating setup, totally cool atmoshpere.

Pool halls like that would be a big step towards changing how people see pool in North America, most of the crap in the USA and Canada is crap pool tables, cheap seating areas, and atmosphere created by neon beer signs and the usual picture of dogs playing pool or a color of money poster. This video is a proper modern pool hall and where the sport SHOULD be going. We are decades behind Asia in this regard.

This is part of pools problem and why it is percieved like it is in this country. Most American pool halls have no class or style, this video has a place that has class and style, it makes the game look a whole lot better.
 
I would agree that your practice strokes are two hurried. I would try a drill that I saw on a bert kinister video where you completely eliminate practice strokes. Get down on your shot with your tip at the ball, slowly pull back and shoot. It really helps with your concentration and helps you realize that all that mumbo jumbo before the shoot means nothing. Only the final stroke counts. I used to have 5+ practice strokes per shot, now I usually only have 1 or 2 tops. Hope this helps and good shooting:)
 
randyg said:
You hit every stroke with a de-accelerating cue stick. Watch your back hand come to a sudden stop at contact with the cue ball.
Click to expand...

I watched the whole video with what you said in mind. Not a single stroke he took in the whole video had a de-accelerating cue at the point of contact. It was accelerating at the time of contact in every single shot. Also his grip tightens on the followthrough, I am not sure it is so loose in the warmup strokes. What he does is somewhat similar to alot of Filipino players, a loose grip with contact on the thumb, forefinger, and maybe middle finger and on the followthrough the ring finger and pinky come up to in effect "catch" the cue in the finish part of the stroke. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that and many word champion calibre players do that exact same thing.

Anyhow, which stroke do you think he is de-accelerating at the time of cueball contact, please clarify and tell us how you figure this to be the case.
 
Sorry Celtic, but you're mistaken here. The elbow drop after contact is unnecessary, and doesn't contribute anything positive to the outcome of the shot. It does not reduce power/speed, and actually makes the timing of your stroke much more complicated and prone to error. Finishing your stroke (followthrough is a misnomer) does not require an elbow drop. Because the tip-to-CB contact time is so brief, how far you "followthrough" has no bearing on what happens with the shot. The OP would do well to pay attention to what Randyg told them.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Celtic said:
The elbow drop on the follow shots is part of the after contact followthrough and is totally fine, in fact it would be a detriment to try to limit/remove your followthrough, it would remove some of the power from that stroke and mess up your timing.
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Sorry Celtic, but you're mistaken here. The elbow drop after contact is unnecessary, and doesn't contribute anything positive to the outcome of the shot. It does not reduce power/speed, and actually makes the timing of your stroke much more complicated and prone to error. Finishing your stroke (followthrough is a misnomer) does not require an elbow drop. Because the tip-to-CB contact time is so brief, how far you "followthrough" has no bearing on what happens with the shot. The OP would do well to pay attention to what Randyg told them.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

I don't know how to say this any other way as you and Randy G. have been given alot of leeway on this subject of what a stroke should and shouldn't be.. I seriously wonder why you have this conviction that your thoughts/opinions are the end of all discussion on this subject.
If I took into consideration what you say, I couldn't play at a high caliber speed. I'll give an example. You say a person needs to slow down cue speed and have a relaxed grip on the stroke at the cueball? And that the cue ought to stop at the armpit? And the cue should end up on the table at the finish? I just want your views before I continue ..
 
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monchiwai said:
after 10 years playing pool, this is actually the first time I took a video and looked at my own stroke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKhJvyslwFc

I realize that when I draw or shoot center ball, I did not Elbow-drop. But when I follow, I did. Is this normal? I read many threads about elbow-drop but there seem to be no conclusion on which is correct.
I learned Pool by myself and no instructor whatsoever. So my fundamental is, bad.
I know the most important thing is to be able to make balls but am just surprised that my stroke went differently on different shots.

Any comments on my stroke is welcomed :)
Click to expand...

The most important thing is to realize that a shot has two parts: putting the ob where you want it and putting the cb where you want it.

Different shots takes different strokes.

Before I could really comment on your stroke, I would have you do specfic types of shots to really see how you stroke. What you were doing was just what I call wham bam shots. Shots with no real purpose.

To really see your stroke requires having you do some drills that test how you stroke on shots that are not wide open in the middle of the table. The key to a great stroke is being able stroke straight with any speed in any stance.

All that nice spin is useless unless you learn to have control of it. That's what you need to work on. Stroking to always have control of the CB, meaning, the CB goes where you want after hitting an OB. You follow this advice, and your stroke will come to you.


Shots like this:
 
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canwin said:
You say a person needs to slow down cue speed and have a relaxed grip on the stroke at the cueball? And that the cue ought to stop at the armpit? And the cue should end up on the table at the finish? I just want your views before I continue ..
Click to expand...

I don't think he said anything about slowing dow the cue speed on the shot. Cue speed will vary from shot to shot as needed for position.
And yes, the grip hand needs to be relaxed at contact.
And no, your grip hand does not have to stop at the armpit. It needs to stop at it's natural finish position for each individual. (mine is right in the side of my chest)
And no, the tip should still be reletively level, or angled down toward the table, or touching the table (individuals have different finish distances, so again, this is not a fixed point) The thing you want to avoid is having the tip move upward near the end of the stroke.

Steve
 
canwin said:
I don't know how to say this any other way as you and Randy G. have been given alot of leeway on this subject of what a stroke should and shouldn't be.. I seriously wonder why you have this conviction that your thoughts/opinions are the end of all discussion on this subject.
..
Click to expand...

And just who is the one granting them this "leeway" on the subject of what a stroke should and shouldn't be? I think the years of research and study they have put in on the subject give them a good bit of credibility.

How many videos have you studied of player's arm movements? How many doctors have you talked to about this topic. How many engineers? Physisists?

Are you a player, or do you actually do studies and research?

I'm not accusing, I'm just asking. I know how much study time these two put in.

Steve
 
canwin said:
If I took into consideration what you say, I couldn't play at a high caliber speed. I'll give an example. You say a person needs to slow down cue speed and have a relaxed grip on the stroke at the cueball? And that the cue ought to stop at the armpit? And the cue should end up on the table at the finish? I just want your views before I continue ..
Click to expand...


I get instruction from Randy G and he never told me any of the things you mention here. Not really even close to what he teaches......
 
canwin...I think you misread what Randyg posted. What he said was that the OP hit every shot with a decellerating stroke, and an abrupt stop of their stroke, and a tight grip...which is true. That is the opposite of the desired stroke movement. With a pendulum swing, the tip always ends up level, on, or near the cloth, in the finish position. With a natural finish, your grip hand ends up in or near your armpit. That's just the way your arm works with your body.

There is no "end-all", "be-all" that you describe. There are easy ways to accurately and repeatably setup and deliver the cue...and there are more difficult ways (elbow drop as one example). Our opinion is that the elbow drop is a choice, rather than a necessary part of the equation. We never said it cannot work doing that. Our conviction comes from decades of teaching 1000's of students, lots of continued education, and a desire to provide our students with a solid, easy to understand, and easy to execute means of cue stick delivery.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

canwin said:
I don't know how to say this any other way as you and Randy G. have been given alot of leeway on this subject of what a stroke should and shouldn't be.. I seriously wonder why you have this conviction that your thoughts/opinions are the end of all discussion on this subject.
If I took into consideration what you say, I couldn't play at a high caliber speed. I'll give an example. You say a person needs to slow down cue speed and have a relaxed grip on the stroke at the cueball? And that the cue ought to stop at the armpit? And the cue should end up on the table at the finish? I just want your views before I continue ..
Click to expand...
 
Klopek said:
I take it this comment was referring to my post. I wrote "up by his armpit" which means "near" his armpit. Your chest is near your arm pit in the shooting position no?. If you actually read the second sentence you would understand what I was saying. You need to read more carefully.
Click to expand...

If you carefully read pooltchr's post and the post he is quoting, you will see that he is referring to canwin's post...he quoted it directly
 
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