First time seeing my own stroke

[Celtic]

Sorry Celtic, but you're mistaken here. The elbow drop after contact is unnecessary, and doesn't contribute anything positive to the outcome of the shot.

I never said it was necessary but for a person who has a very clear style of stroke and 10 years of muscle memory ingrained into it trying to alter his stroke at this point and remove the elbow drop after contact is not only pointless, but a terrible idea because it is going to alter the natural flow of his stroke. There is no reason whatsoever to remove the elbow drop from his stroke, it is not causing nothing negative at all and altering his stroke to the degree it would very likely cause problems that he then might not be able to reverse.

 

[Tokyo-dave]

I've never personally given much thought to the fine details in the mechanics of a stroke. I mean sure, I've practiced many long and hard hours working on being straight, follow through, or whatever, but all this debate about this and that would only confuse me and put crap in my head that I don't need.
I video tape myself from time to time not to check my stroke as much, but to get a look at my ball movement, and most of all to get a look at the table from a perspective other than my angle as a shooter. This whole post actually made me take a look at my stroke, bridge, and wrist...............and it's all pretty rough if you ask me. I notice my wrist is almost cocked forward, my cue stops suddenly, and (a thing I've always done) my bridge hand has almost always got a figer or two moving or pointing up or both. My buddies have always said that my bridge hand looks like a spider walking with a shaft sliding across it's back.
My bridge? Not worried.
My wrist angle? Not worried.
But I'd like to work a little to improve my follow through.
dave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2nguCDpwCk

 

[genomachino]

Hi there,

the main thing is when you use that big long stroke can you get your shape and are you making the ball most of the time.

If not there are some things to try to improve consistency and accuracy.

When you first get down on the shot hold the cue still. Just like a gun and aim.

That big long stroke looks real good but if you watch some videos of many pros you will see that their stroke doesn't go way back to the bridge hand. When they are aiming the stroke is actually about 5 to seven inches.

it's really tough for anyone to handle bringing the practice stroke and the final stroke back that far and be consistent.

just something to try. You still want that much cue out there, just don't come way back to the bridge hand.

Good luck.. Your stroke does look good. Keep up the good work......

Geno..........

 

[monchiwai]

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice.
I have to admit I hurried on my shots. I am a fast player but more importantly, the one holding the camera is my GF and she doesn't have much patience holding the cam for too long

I noticed the follow was with an open bridge.

I wonder if the front end "bridge" has an affect on the way your back end..."stroke arm" works.

Somehow I cannot play follow shots with a closed bridge. Maybe I could but I feel more confident with an open bridge. I will shoot another video with closed bridge and we will see if it makes any difference.

If you have a video player like VLC player which allows you to watch the videos in 1/2x or 1/4x slow motion, I'd recommend doing that.

Thanks! just downloaded it. Great stuff!

You hit every stroke with a de-accelerating cue stick. Watch your back hand come to a sudden stop at contact with the cue ball. That in turn causes a very tight grip, which you have. To fix this problem, allow your back hand to finish up on your body (chest) with a light grip.

Will definitely try it out. Thanks for pointing out.

Why do you bridge so far away from your tip?

I have no idea. I tried shorter bridge before but I had difficulty seeing the line of sight. Again, this is the first time I video myself and honestly, it is farther than I thought.

That is a fantastic looking pool hall.

It sure is and doesn't come cheap. 1100JPY (about USD13) per hour and a must to order a drink at least. The name of the hall is Bagus and it is a chain.

 

[mosconiac]

Monchiwai: You must play or watch snooker as your cue action is very similar (stance & other alignments are not though).

You're stroke is like a piston (along a straight line, not an arc as in the BCA pendulum stroke) with an opening hand at the back of the stroke with a closing hand on the forward stroke. I would say you have an enviable stroke in that regard.

The fact that you take an extremely long backswing that ends with a closed hand will drive american pool instructors nuts...they see a lopsided stroke that ends abruptly & in tension. Note how your cue is level until you reach the end of that lloonngg backstroke. A snooker coach would praise you...then tell you to shorten your backstroke and ensure you don't clench the cue at finish. Then they would work on the exaggerated follow-through on follow shots.

Your forearm is vertical at impact, which is great.

 

[luckwouldhaveit]

The people who say he is decelerating on his stroke with such confidence truly impress me. You must have amazing eyes!

It's hard for mere mortals like me to give stroke feedback when you're hitting the balls so hard The speed of the shots plus the "active" part of your stroke make it hard to comment.

 

[pooltchr]

Have you ever been asked to watch a close hit on a pool table. If you try to see which ball was hit first, it can be extremely difficult. If you understand how to evaluate the results of the hit, it is very easy.

Same principle applies here.

Steve

 

[duckie]

The people who say he is decelerating on his stroke with such confidence truly impress me. You must have amazing eyes!

It's hard for mere mortals like me to give stroke feedback when you're hitting the balls so hard The speed of the shots plus the "active" part of your stroke make it hard to comment.

I find it interesting that the focus has been on the how of the stroke and not the overall purpose of the stroke and how to develop it to meet that purpose.

The purpose of the stroke is real simple......controlling the CB. That really is what pool is.....controlling the CB. As I said before, you must be able to do this from any postion and regardless of the ball layout of the time.

Understanding and praciting this will help you find your stroke. That's right..find your stroke. Everyone needs to find what works for them.

Try this drill ........put all 15 balls between the side pockets and the end of the table you were shooting from. Take BIH, and run as many balls as you can without hitting another ball or rail.

And this one....tangent line drill.....the object is to setup shots on the 1 ball and place the 2 ball along the rail where you think the 1 ball will hit. Do the shot and see how close you come Start with center ball hit. Then use different spins, hits and so on and see how you do. Of course, setup shots at different spots on the table.

CueTable Help

Pool is about putting balls where you want them, which does not always mean putting one in a pocket. Being able to use a stroke like a vilionist uses a bow is being lost in the world of standardized instruction.

Seldom have I heard the word finesse used in stroke threads yet it is this quality of a stroke that will make break you or break you in the long run.

 

[Celtic]

Monchiwai: You must play or watch snooker as your cue action is very similar (stance & other alignments are not though).

You're stroke is like a piston (along a straight line, not an arc as in the BCA pendulum stroke) with an opening hand at the back of the stroke with a closing hand on the forward stroke. I would say you have an enviable stroke in that regard.

The fact that you take an extremely long backswing that ends with a closed hand will drive american pool instructors nuts...they see a lopsided stroke that ends abruptly & in tension. Note how your cue is level until you reach the end of that lloonngg backstroke. A snooker coach would praise you...then tell you to shorten your backstroke and ensure you don't clench the cue at finish. Then they would work on the exaggerated follow-through on follow shots.

Your forearm is vertical at impact, which is great.

This I agree with.

Don't screw up a good thing listening to bad info Monchiwai, people here would "fix" Earl's stroke if you put a bag over his head and got him to shoot 10 shots on video.

The open hand on the backstroke and closing on the followthrough is exactly what I mentioned, people thinking it is a tightening grip. A TON of former snooker players turned semi-pro 9-ball players in Canada do the exact same thing. Don't screw up a great piston style stroke attempting to change it to a pendulum stroke.

 

[StrokeAnalyzer]

Check out StrokeAnalyzer. The best tool for analyzing your stroke in detail.

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[Stones]

I always thought I had a nice straight stroke until I saw myself on video for the first time about twenty years ago. My jaw dropped upon seeing it the first time.

Like you, nobody showed me anything in my early pool playing days.

But, jeez, did it have to look like an unfolding lawnchair? LOL

Stones

 

[Celtic]

Check out StrokeAnalyzer. The best tool for analyzing your stroke in detail.

It would be awesome to see you take top pros with different styles and see if the fundamentals that your program keys in on are all within specific limits despite different looking strokes, or where the top pros are similar and what certain things are seemingly less critical to a good stroke.

Say...

Bustamente
SVB
Efren
Earl
Thorsten
Mika
Appleton
Archer
Orcullo
Lee Van

I would love to see how your program would break down those 10 guys, see where they are similar, see where the variations are and what would then possibly have more variation and still allow for pro level play.

If you were to do the above, and possibly even get more pros your could actually tweak your program and what it deems as critical based on the strokes of the professional level players. Things that show more variation at the pro level would be less critical or at least need to be in certain tollerance windows, while other aspects of the stroke might be universal at the pro level and thus if a person then gets analized and what they do in their stroke falls outside of the range of what ALL pro's do then clearly that is a serious problem and something they might really need to fix.

If your program were based around pro strokes like that, with dozens of top players from around the world and using their strokes to create the tollerance windows of a proper successful stroke it would be a HUGE asset to teachers and people self learning the game alike.

If the program had dozens of pro strokes built in it could then also analyze your stroke, see flaws that are universal amoung the pros, but ALSO tell you what pro's your stroke most closely resembles and thus give you an idea on smaller changes in your stroke to more closely shoot like a certain pro or two who have a stroke that already more closely resembles yours.

I am not sure if you have the time, but the potential for that program if you manage to get dozens of the top players in the world to take the time to shoot the shots and have their strokes analyzed is off the charts.

What I would do if I were you and had the time and resources would be set up a booth in Vegas with a 9-foot table, pay the pros $200 or whatever for 1/2 an hour of their time to analyze their strokes, and get as many as possible that are there playing in the BCA 10-ball at that time anyway. If you get 40 pro's to do it it would cost you $8,000 total if they agreed to do it at that price, which does not seem a bad way to spend 1/2 hour, give them the program as a free download as a bonus. With those 40 pro's you can basically get each of their strokes and start to see where the differences and similarities lie, the more top pro's you get the better the program's analysis would be, 80 or 100 top pro's simply limits the standard deviations that much more and gives you more precise windows where most of the pros are in various aspects of the stroke.

If your program had all of that I would buy it instantly, if it had the ten players mentioned above and 30+ more of the top players. If I could videotape my stroke, load it onto the program, and then see where my stroke falls into the variances of the professionals, where it deviates from the average of the pro's, if I could have the program say "based on all of the variables your stroke most closely resmebles Dennis Orcullo" And then I can click on his analysis and view his angles, his amount of elbow drop, and all of the other data and see where the variation from my stroke and his occurs. I can instead compare my stroke to the overall average of EVERY pro in the system and see where my stroke deviates from the average of the pro's, or I can pick any player and see how my stroke compares to theirs. A tall person can thus analyze their stroke and see how it compares to Neils Feigen, or they can analyze their stroke and then compare it to 6 taller players that they choose from the list of all the pros and see how their stroke compares to the average of those 6 players.

If you did this, man, the program would be awesome and you would sell heaps.

 

[SirNoobs]

...That's a classy pool hall.

 

[Celtic]

. Yet, each time you do, you show that you really have no idea just what they do teach. Let alone WHY they teach what they do.

I know full well what they teach, I have taken lessons from one of the most famous BCA certified instructors. I don't agree with alot of the teaching methods, especially when it comes to expereinced players.

What is your problem Neil, you think everyone should be positive little ass kissers? Noone can have a differing viewpoint on things? If you are not part of the "yes" crowd then your voice should be censored, you should be encouraged not to speak? Too bad you live in America I guess, perhaps some place in the Middle East would be more to your liking, people there can be killed for voicing differing viewpoints. People here on the other hand have the right to disagree and the right to vocalize that disagreement. If you don't like that then tough luck.

 

[Neil]

....................

 

[Celtic]

One other thing- I got a kick out of you voicing your differing opinion about the instructors and how they should not be listened to because they are always wrong in your eyes, and that being just fine and proper and all American. But, as soon as I voice MY opinion, I am right away an ass kisser, un-American, and should move to some mid-east country. Real nice attitude you have.

The reason for that is while I debate the topic at hand, the instruction and how it relates to pool, you attack me personally and start posting glib comments like "oh you must not understand, you just hate instructors don't you".

I have said good things about some instruction I have had, I am skeptical about some instruction techniques. But when I post on these threads I question the information being posted and the isntruction techniques, not the people who are posting those opinions. You on the other hand when you disagree ignore the topic and go straight after the person posting anything that you disagree with. And this is by no means the first time you have done it to me and many other people. If you want to debate the topics at hand cool, that is what a message board is for. If all you want to do is take offense from others opinions who disagree with you and start posting dumb glib remarks that are more personal attacks then rebuttles against their view of the topic then ya, we are on a very different page on the way we enter these discussions and I stand by what I said about you completely and rest assured, we are NOT the same in this regard.

 

[justnum]

Unless your interested in preserving your energy, elbow drop or not, all that matters is that you pocketed and were close to the position you thought you'd get.


The elbow rule is to general too be applied because people differ in size and shape.

It is a trip watching your own stroke when your in a match that you lose. I learn so much more about what I am doing watching myself when I am losing.

 

[luckwouldhaveit]

Have you ever been asked to watch a close hit on a pool table. If you try to see which ball was hit first, it can be extremely difficult. If you understand how to evaluate the results of the hit, it is very easy.

Same principle applies here.

Steve

Haha you do realize he's just letting his stroke out right?

 

[randyg]

after 10 years playing pool, this is actually the first time I took a video and looked at my own stroke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKhJvyslwFc

I realize that when I draw or shoot center ball, I did not Elbow-drop. But when I follow, I did. Is this normal? I read many threads about elbow-drop but there seem to be no conclusion on which is correct.
I learned Pool by myself and no instructor whatsoever. So my fundamental is, bad.
I know the most important thing is to be able to make balls but am just surprised that my stroke went differently on different shots.

Any comments on my stroke is welcomed

This is the content of this post. We have the right to post and everyone has the right to decipher.
randyg