Flame Away

[JoeW]

Hi John and I would bet that your buddy, whether he knew it or not, was really good at organizing his approach to all those sports. Some people are more aware of and sensitive to their body and their own behaviors. Heck just watching some people walk is funny. Others have that natural ability to get it together. The rest of us --- we have to work at it.

I also think that it is neat that most of us are good in some areas and very poor in other areas. My left hand and arm seem more like a club than an arm, my buddy can use either equally well.

I like to dance and it just comes natural. Thinking about it wrecks it for me. Play the music and it just comes out. But if you hand me a cue stick and a set of balls -- just another banger who has to put in many hours to be average.

 

[Johnnyt]

ive noticed some people like john rocca in my high school growing up.
it was sickning but he was very good if not great at basketball,baseball,wrestling,running,football,fighting,etc.
he was a very athletic highly coordinated person.he was great at everything with little practice and was better at all those sports quicker than everybody else in high school.
if he would have picked up pool he would have been great real quick.
all the practice in the world only goes so far.
corey duell for example was great at pool at 16.he had only played a few years by the time he was almost pro caliber.
yes the great players have hit a million balls but believe me those guys were making everything after 50,000 balls.
if practice was the main reason then all the girls on the wpba would play like the top guys.trust me some of those girls have played and practiced as much as any male pro.they play great no doubt but not as good as the top guys.its called natural ability.some people can become great if not world class at almost anything they put their minds to.archer,strickland, duell etc etc.

I have said this many times over the years on here. If you don't have a LOT(not some) natural talent to play pool your not going to be great at it (top pro) no matter how many balls you hit, no matter how many lessons you take, or how many aiming systems, cues, videos you buy. I figured out 40 years ago that my natual talent would only take me so far. So I dealt with it. I made a lot of money as a nobody "B to A" player over the years and I invested my winnings in solid proven ways. I didn't "put it back into action" to loose in an hour what took me a week to hustle. Johnnyt

 

[Bob Callahan]

I think "natural talent" is just an excuse people give themselves for not being as good as someone else. Sure, in some sports, there are body types, etc that are perfect for the job--think of power lifting, for instance. But, our sport isn't like that--great players come in all sizes and shapes--some even wear glasses and contacts, and look nothing like Fats or any of the other stereotypes. My wife and I are also rock climbers (we took Tom and Marty Rossman once, but that's another story....), and we climbed with the top female climber for a while, who everyone said was a "natural". That devalued the thousands of hours she put in over the years. She was anything but a "natural" when we first met her.

Some people do get good at pool very quickly, but they also plateau out quickly and then it takes a lot of work for them to become world class...they just do it a little faster than the rest of us can.

 

[predator]

John Schmidt is right. Some people do have amazing ability to learn much quicker than average person could. Others could practice for decades and not get nearly as good. It's just a fact of life.

The best example sort of related to pool I could find is this:
A 14 year old boy from Belgium already has over 30 147s in practice. The kid is already qualified for snooker pro circuit, but will have to wait until he turns 16. How on Earth does someone get this good so quickly? Yes, snooker is not pool, but it's still balls and sticks. I don't think this kid had time to hit million balls yet. He's just too young.

I wonder what aiming system he uses?:grin::grin::grin:

A nice 147 attempt by Luca Brecel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgkzivOz_ZM&feature=related

147 by Luca, but with music background unfortunately:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgPuJhXnRHY&feature=fvw

 

[asn130]

aiming isn't the problem.

HITTING what you're aiming at is the problem.

 

[john schmidt]

hi

I think "natural talent" is just an excuse people give themselves for not being as good as someone else. Sure, in some sports, there are body types, etc that are perfect for the job--think of power lifting, for instance. But, our sport isn't like that--great players come in all sizes and shapes--some even wear glasses and contacts, and look nothing like Fats or any of the other stereotypes. My wife and I are also rock climbers (we took Tom and Marty Rossman once, but that's another story....), and we climbed with the top female climber for a while, who everyone said was a "natural". That devalued the thousands of hours she put in over the years. She was anything but a "natural" when we first met her.

Some people do get good at pool very quickly, but they also plateau out quickly and then it takes a lot of work for them to become world class...they just do it a little faster than the rest of us can.

maybe im misreading but are you saying basically anyone can be world class at pool .it just takes them longer than others.
if thats what your suggesting i would have to respectfully disagree.

 

[ironman]

You forgot:

miscue
the pocket plastic it sticking out and spits the ball back
the pockets aren't cut regulation
the ball rolls off
the balls are warped
the cloth caused the ball to skid
there was a piece of lint on the felt
chalk on the felt
felt on the felt
hole in the felt
beer stain on felt
imperfections in the slate
slates not leveled right
dead rail
side pocket points stick out too far
too much rubber on the back of the pocket
could see a ball sticking out of the pocket, should have removed them
too light
too dark
shaft deflected too much
somebody moved across the room
somebody stepped in my line of sight
the jukebox was too loud
the waitress bent over
and I now realize the pocket can move

:grin:

Johnny, I don't have a system either....just feel it and shoot....if I miss, I likely put a poor stroke on the ball or a few other dumb mistakes that put my butt back in the chair

I agree here, quit talking yourself out of it!!LOL!

 

[duckie]

maybe im misreading but are you saying basically anyone can be world class at pool .it just takes them longer than others.
if thats what your suggesting i would have to respectfully disagree.

Here's kinda another take on it.......in motorcycle racing you have a grid of x number of riders on the grid, say for a motogp race, all world class riders. Out of that x number, you will see the ones with natural talent. They are at the front of the race.

So, yeah, it is possible to be at a world class level at something, but that doesn't mean you will be the champion. I believe there are those that just know how to step it up a level from the current field.

 

[Bob Callahan]

maybe im misreading but are you saying basically anyone can be world class at pool .it just takes them longer than others.
if thats what your suggesting i would have to respectfully disagree.

We're sort of stealing someone's thread, but let's try it this way: What do you think it takes to become world class? What special attributes are required that aren't trainable?

I totally respect your proven ability which is vastly more than mine, so maybe you have an insight I don't have.

 

[JoeW]

Assuming a normal person, whatever that is

You can train your ability to increase and lengthen your concentration.
You can train attitudes and personality characteristics.
You can enhance your ability to use your eyes for different tasks.
You can train your hand eye coordination to improve functioning.
You can train or improve someone’s desires or inclinations.
You can educate yourself about the nuances of the game

I cannot think of any element of playing pool that can not be trained or improved given that you start with that normal person.

The missing components are probably the original desire to enhance these factors and the knowledge about how to go about making the changes in an organized manner. To keep in the context of the original posting, what is needed is a system for making these changes and checking progress over time.

 

[Johnnyt]

We're sort of stealing someone's thread, but let's try it this way: What do you think it takes to become world class? What special attributes are required that aren't trainable?

I totally respect your proven ability which is vastly more than mine, so maybe you have an insight I don't have.

In this case I don't mind the thread hi jacked. I figure is John stays in it he might slip and tell us the "BIG SECRET" on how to become a champion at pool. LOL. Johnnyt

PS: You can just PM me, the chosen one if you don't want to share it with everyone.

 

[JoeyA]

$50 large

We have this witch doctor down here on the bayou who claims that if we can hold John Schmidt still for about three minutes, he can remove some bone marrow gene cell samples from Schmitty's spine using a standard turkey bone needle and provide you with the cell implant to make you see and play just like him.

It's kind of expensive but with the kind of money you could be making playing pool, it would only take a dozen years or so to make up for the 50 large investment.

Schmitty may be skirting New Orleans for a while especially if someone posts that they will put up the dough. :grin:

JoeyA

 

[john schmidt]

hi

We're sort of stealing someone's thread, but let's try it this way: What do you think it takes to become world class? What special attributes are required that aren't trainable?

I totally respect your proven ability which is vastly more than mine, so maybe you have an insight I don't have.

im not sure what it takes ,its just that ive noticed some people in all walks of life seem to become very good at just about everything they do.
i think we can all agree that some people are smarter and have a higher learning ability than others.with no outside training they just have a higher than average i.q.
so i dont understand why some people wouldnt be more physically able naturally than others.
since pool requires physical and mental skills i would think a high i.q. and high amount of coordination is what separates good from great.imho

 

[Jason Robichaud]

im not sure what it takes ,its just that ive noticed some people in all walks of life seem to become very good at just about everything they do.
i think we can all agree that some people are smarter and have a higher learning ability than others.with no outside training they just have a higher than average i.q.
so i dont understand why some people wouldnt be more physically able naturally than others.
since pool requires physical and mental skills i would think a high i.q. and high amount of coordination is what separates good from great.imho

I dont know about IQ levels amoung top players being higher, I'm guessing they just have a natural eye for geometry. They probably do well with shapes, vectors, judging distance and time. I would also guess they hate to lose and have a higher EQ than the normal person.

 

[Bob Callahan]

John, one of the things I was trying to get at was this: suppose you take me, a highly motivated, but mediocre player who has basic skills as your protégé--teach me all the things you know, and let's assume it "takes". As soon as I run 400+ balls, everyone will say I'm a natural, otherwise I woudn't be so good.

This would devalue your mentoring, and my thousands of hours of practice.

 

[Neil]

..................

 

[PoolBum]

I miss for 3 reasons:

1. My confidence is shaky for some reason.
2. I don't feel "right" when I am shooting the shot and shoot anyway.
3. The pocket moves.

1 and 2 account for 99% of my misses.

That's weird. 3 accounts for 99% of my misses.

 

[john schmidt]

hi

John, I agree with you that some have natural ability. We all have seen the math whiz kids, the piano playing whiz's, ect. So, it stands to reason that some pool players are naturals also.

I know of no way to test my theory, but I suspect few pros are actually naturals. I think they have something else going for them. And, I strongly suspect that it was formed in them in their very young years.

I do believe hand-eye coordination can be taught and learned. But, it takes a long time to do it. Most that don't have it, are not going to take the time required to learn it at an older age. I think most of it is actually learned from baby-time on up. What toys we play with, ect. Playing baseball as a boy, I know for a fact really helped my hand-eye coordination. Having toys as a baby that help hand-eye coordination can give one many years head start over a baby that doesn't have those kind of toys.

Another aspect is the ability to actually recognize just what you really are doing. Every pro out there KNOWS where they hit that cueball, and they are hitting it in very small increments. Almost no average players know where they hit it, they just think they do. That fact alone makes a HUGE difference in ones game. It's called repeatability. If you think you hit spot A, but actually hit spot B or B+, then when you DO pay attention to hit spot A, you will get a different result, and haven't learned anything. You have to have the ability to know what you are actually doing, the results of that action, and then be able to compensate correctly if need be. And the ability to take that knowledge, and make it grow into more knowledge. This can also go back to hand-eye coordination, or at least ties in with it.

Very few girls play any games from very young on up that actually require a lot of hand-eye coordination. They start out pool with a great disadvantage. Tom-boys, such as Jean Balukas says she was, are the exception, and it showed in her play on a pool table.

I think that to learn those skills at an older age, while possible, require much more effort than most are willing to put in. The reward just isn't that great or obvious, and most will find a different path in life.

good post neil,that makes sense.

 

[john schmidt]

hi

you know i ask myself this same question all the time. how do certain people get this good at anything.if i knew i could teach it and be rich.
im thinking about telling you guys a long story about my life from 10 years old till now.i think it would shed light on alot of things but im afraid i would get bashed so im not sure.anyway im thinking about it.

 

[JoeyA]

you know i ask myself this same question all the time. how do certain people get this good at anything.if i knew i could teach it and be rich.
im thinking about telling you guys a long story about my life from 10 years old till now.i think it would shed light on alot of things but im afraid i would get bashed so im not sure.anyway im thinking about it.

Don't do it John!

Save it for THE BOOK!

JoeyA