Flame Away

Big Perm said:
You forgot:

miscue
the pocket plastic it sticking out and spits the ball back
the pockets aren't cut regulation
the ball rolls off
the balls are warped
the cloth caused the ball to skid
there was a piece of lint on the felt
chalk on the felt
felt on the felt
hole in the felt
beer stain on felt
imperfections in the slate
slates not leveled right
dead rail
side pocket points stick out too far
too much rubber on the back of the pocket
could see a ball sticking out of the pocket, should have removed them
too light
too dark
shaft deflected too much
somebody moved across the room
somebody stepped in my line of sight
the jukebox was too loud
the waitress bent over
and I now realize the pocket can move

:grin:

Johnny, I don't have a system either....just feel it and shoot....if I miss, I likely put a poor stroke on the ball or a few other dumb mistakes that put my butt back in the chair :)
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LOL....

Josh
 
duckie said:
Here's my belief......its kinda like a martial artist. You start at the white belt level where systems/basic movements are used to help establish the foundations, the basics.

As you progess, you've done the basic systems so much, plain repeating of movements, that, over time, you just do them, no thought is necessary, same as in making a shot, you just see the shot.

The higher up the levels the focus goes from doing the physical to the metal aspect, same things happens in pool. You have to learn to let go, to just do.

So there is a place for systems, but there is no one system.
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Very well said and I agree. Johnnyt
 
There is no money in telling someone the secret to aiming is practice. That is why the real pros cannot and are not able to tell you their secret aiming system. The secret is not a secret, it comes from hours of hitting balls.

Don Feeney claims in one of his videos that one pro would shoot the same shot for 3 to 4 hours. Someone asked him why did he do that and he said because it always comes up in a game. Another was a fameous snooker player that was asked if using right english on a shot would help to make it and he was told "NO, NO, NO you shoot it 500 times"

The way to make money is to come up with a gimmick. The real secret to the gimmick is that it makes the player practice, doesn't matter if it really helps because the player will naturally get better from the practice.
 
the420trooper said:
To be honest, these are perfectly fair gripes, and they're far too common on 90% of bar tables...esp. the ones with the side points sticking out too far. If a ball is frozen to the long cushion, and you have to cut it past the side pocket, it's an impossible shot on these tables...
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That needs a good table mechanic and an aiming sytem...right? Johnnyt
 
I know a guy that seems to know every systems for various pool elements...everything from kicking to aiming to measuring draw off a rail etc. This guy might not be possessed of the greatest natural ability but he maximizes every opportunity at the table (when he's motivated to play). What works for one person may not work well for another or it might help quite a bit. You have to keep an open mind about just about anything new that is being used by people to improve their pool game.

Its like Dave said about, systems enable a person to execute easier while under pressure and you are more consistent. Little Joe Villapondo has a kicking dvd where he uses the clock aiming system to get consistent results from kicking 2 and 3 rails.

My biggest problems about systems is the time it takes to learn them. I struggle to find time to hit balls 5 hrs a week, let alone dedicating the time towards changing out something as fundamental to me as how I aim.

I admire those who adopt the philosophy of seeking constant and never ending improvement in their pool game.
 
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the420trooper said:
To be honest, these are perfectly fair gripes, and they're far too common on 90% of bar tables...esp. the ones with the side points sticking out too far. If a ball is frozen to the long cushion, and you have to cut it past the side pocket, it's an impossible shot on these tables...
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LOL, they all are fair gripes, at least to the person that said them (I get what you mean and clearly admit I have missed due to a miscue and a waitress bending over)

Well, except for the pocket moving, but I need to pay more attention to the table and the crazy stuff Dan says when he is around :grin:
 
TheBook said:
Don Feeney claims in one of his videos that one pro would shoot the same shot for 3 to 4 hours. Someone asked him why did he do that and he said because it always comes up in a game. Another was a fameous snooker player that was asked if using right english on a shot would help to make it and he was told "NO, NO, NO you shoot it 500 times"
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That is pretty much it in a nutshell. Virtually all the top players simply shoot a boatload of shots and in time the brain figures out itself, subconciously, where that contact point is and how to hit it so the ball goes into the pocket. An aiming system might be a good place to start for a newbie, but the real goal in pool is to get to the point that aiming is subconcious, natural, you are not aiming at a ghost ball or a contact point, you are aiming the ball into the pocket, that and the shape are all you think about, no imagining ghost balls, no contact point to contact point mathematical schemes.

If you find a shot you don't make and keep missing it on the wrong side then you don't have the "feel" for that shot and you brain is not attuned to how it feels to stroke that ball into the pocket. What the pro's and other great players are doing when they shoot that shot 500 times is getting the feel of making that ball engrained into their subconcious so that the next time they need to shoot that shot it is purely natural.
 
the420trooper said:
I would add that often, the mechanical error is due some last minute change made in the aim or stroke. (Which is usually caused by lack of confidence.)

)
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Whenever I see my opponent making aiming adjustments while they are down on the shot, I'm usually reaching for the chalk, because I'm pretty sure it is about to be my turn to shoot again.

Steve
 
Big Perm said:
You forgot:

miscue
the pocket plastic it sticking out and spits the ball back
the pockets aren't cut regulation
the ball rolls off
the balls are warped
the cloth caused the ball to skid
there was a piece of lint on the felt
chalk on the felt
felt on the felt
hole in the felt
beer stain on felt
imperfections in the slate
slates not leveled right
dead rail
side pocket points stick out too far
too much rubber on the back of the pocket
could see a ball sticking out of the pocket, should have removed them
too light
too dark
shaft deflected too much
somebody moved across the room
somebody stepped in my line of sight
the jukebox was too loud
the waitress bent over
and I now realize the pocket can move
Click to expand...

Don't forget "I was playing safe and missed on purpose!" :)

Brian
 
cause and effect?

pooltchr said:
Whenever I see my opponent making aiming adjustments while they are down on the shot, I'm usually reaching for the chalk, because I'm pretty sure it is about to be my turn to shoot again.

Steve
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It's also possible that he misses because his opponent started reaching for the chalk while he was down on his shot. :confused: :shocked2: :poke: :nono: :p
 
Cuebacca said:
It's also possible that he misses because his opponent started reaching for the chalk while he was down on his shot. :confused: :shocked2: :poke: :nono: :p
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Figuratively speaking. But, my chalk is on my belt, not on the table.
No need to shark someone who is probably about to miss a shot. I might shark them into accidently making it! :grin:

Steve
 
Johnny,

I too go crazy reading through the aiming forums but for me it is because it is so 1 dimensional. I think for most better players that you speak of the aiming system or new secret technique for pocketing balls is just a placebo. Nothing helps your game more then shooting the same shots over and over until you can make the ball go in and the cue ball go where you want.

If a player can make a long straight in stop shot 70 percent or more but they can't make basic cut shots the same percentage maybe they can benefit from a system that helps them aim better however if you can't make a straight in ball more than 50 percent you don't need to work on your "aiming system" you need to work on your fundamentals.

my $.02

Dud
 
Penn & Teller hada show on cable called Bullshit. They had one show on lawns that I only caught the last few minutes of.

It was something about a guy that has spent about 10,000 hours on his lawn. Penn & Teller pointed out that's about the same amount to time to get to a pro level in sports.

So I thought if that was true, I got alot of time to make up. I started doing 4 - 5 hours a day, about 4 times a week of just hitting balls. It interesting the things that happen doing that. You find weak muscles that need strengthing. You find you go through up and downs and learn how to get out of a down cycle. You learn to see where the cue ball is gonna go. You learn there is no such thing as a easy shot and so on.

Also, when you start the practice session next day, its feels like you haven't stopped which is a good thing.
 
gatorcc said:
I miss because I don't practice enough! :)

I have always believed in one true aiming system. Hit the cue ball into the object ball to send the object ball into a pocket! :)

Happy Friday. Time for some caffeine!
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It's funny that you should say it like that. Back in the mid 80's, when I first started playing, the owner of the local pool hall, fantastic one hole player, was teaching me to use english on my shots to obtain position. He didn't go into a long serenade about squirt, swerve etc... When I got down and shot the ball with english, and missed of course, the only thing he said to me was shoot it until you can make it. I think that was probably one of the best pieces of advice I ever had.

I think cluttering up your mind with all that crap about how much is it going to squirt, how much it could throw depending on the thickness, breaking down the angle of the shot etc... etc... puts your mind totally in a funk. It's like you say in your post, hit the cueball into the point on the object ball that will send it to the pocket. It couldn't be simpler than that. If you miss it, keep doing it until you don't.
MULLY
 
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the420trooper said:
Say you're down on the ball, and you realize that you're aiming a little too full on the OB. Too many of us, (me), make a minor adjustment, like tucking the elbow a little to change the contact point. If we, (I), were more willing to get up and start over when the shot doesn't feel right, our, (my) consistency would improve a lot.
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Good point. Last minute changes are the main reason why I miss shots.

What gets me is similar to what you said, but rather because I make last second changes to the speed of the shot. The shot behaves completely different depending on the speed, so the changes to throw, deflection and swerve alter the angle of the shot, causing me to miss.

Or rather, *resulting* in a miss. :p
 
mullyman said:
It's funny that you should say it like that. Back in the mid 80's, when I first started playing, the owner of the local pool hall, fantastic one hole player, was teaching me to use english on my shots to obtain position. He didn't go into a long serenade about squirt, swerve etc... When I got down and shot the ball with english, and missed of course, the only thing he said to me was shoot it until you can make it. I think that was probably one of the best pieces of advice I ever had.

I think cluttering up your mind with all that crap about how much is it going to squirt, how much it could throw depending on the thickness, breaking down the angle of the shot etc... etc... puts your mind totally in a funk. It's like you say in your post, hit the cueball into the point on the object ball that will send it to the pocket. It couldn't be simpler than that. If you miss it, keep doing it until you don't.
MULLY
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Some good points. We perform better when we act on instinct rather than performing consciously (ie. thinking about how hard you need to hit the ball, what angle the shot is, pulling the cue back slowly, accelerating etc.). This stuff is fine during practice but definitely not in competition. Ideally I like to think about where I want to put the cue ball for my next shot, and then focus going through my routine.

I liken the process to playing a song on an instrument. Once you've learned a song you don't think about the individual notes as you play if you did the whole thing would fall apart. Rather it becomes an automatic process, if anything you think about the song in sections (ie. intro, chorus, bridge, verse etc.). Same thing with improvisation, it's entirely instinct.
 
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