Flame Away

[Roger Long]

It's funny that you should say it like that. Back in the mid 80's, when I first started playing, the owner of the local pool hall, fantastic one hole player, was teaching me to use english on my shots to obtain position. He didn't go into a long serenade about squirt, swerve etc... When I got down and shot the ball with english, and missed of course, the only thing he said to me was shoot it until you can make it. I think that was probably one of the best pieces of advice I ever had.

I think cluttering up your mind with all that crap about how much is it going to squirt, how much it could throw depending on the thickness, breaking down the angle of the shot etc... etc... puts your mind totally in a funk. It's like you say in your post, hit the cueball into the point on the object ball that will send it to the pocket. It couldn't be simpler than that. If you miss it, keep doing it until you don't.
MULLY

That is some extremely good advice, Mully. I teach my students about squirt and throw and all that "crap", but only to let them know that those things do exist and that aim compensations must be made when those things are present. Also, knowing how that crap works lets the students know whether to compensate left, or compensate right. After that, I tell them to PRACTICE! I cannot, and will not, try to give them a bunch of formulas and systems to make the balls for them. I feel the same way about all other aiming systems, banking systems, and kicking systems. I just do not believe there are any "systems" that can allow for variables like cloth speed, cushion rebound, ball speed, friction factors, eye sight, etc. and have the player be any better than if they would just PRACTICE more. I tell my students that (in my opinion) systems should only be used to get them in the "ball park" of any type shot they are having difficulty with. And once they have a feel for how to aim a particular type of shot, then scrap the system and shoot by feel.

Roger

 

[mullyman]

That is some extremely good advice, Mully. I teach my students about squirt and throw and all that "crap", but only to let them know that those things do exist and that aim compensations must be made when those things are present. Also, knowing how that crap works lets the students know whether to compensate left, or compensate right. After that, I tell them to PRACTICE! I cannot, and will not, try to give them a bunch of formulas and systems to make the balls for them. I feel the same way about all other aiming systems, banking systems, and kicking systems. I just do not believe there are any "systems" that can allow for variables like cloth speed, cushion rebound, ball speed, friction factors, eye sight, etc. and have the player be any better than if they would just PRACTICE more. I tell my students that (in my opinion) systems should only be used to get them in the "ball park" of any type shot they are having difficulty with. And once they have a feel for how to aim a particular type of shot, then scrap the system and shoot by feel.

Roger

Yeah, Roger, that guy that taught me way back when only said that if I'm hitting it too full (cutting to the right) then aim a little more to the left because the cueball will curve a little. Other than that he didn't go into details. Knowing how I am, if he had started in on the physics of it, I would have determined that it was too difficult for me to do something that took so much concentration working out the variables. I probably would have given up.
MULLY

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[TheBook]

It's funny that you should say it like that. Back in the mid 80's, when I first started playing, the owner of the local pool hall, fantastic one hole player, was teaching me to use english on my shots to obtain position. He didn't go into a long serenade about squirt, swerve etc... When I got down and shot the ball with english, and missed of course, the only thing he said to me was shoot it until you can make it. I think that was probably one of the best pieces of advice I ever had.

MULLY

That is good advice if you just want to be a good player but as Paul Harvey would say here is the rest of the story. Average (good) players will practice until they can make it, pros will practice until they never miss it.

 

[vagabond]

but there is no one system.

That is right. My system is 'Red Neck Aiming System'. I only charge one budweiser for an hour from my students.

 

[Pii]

It's funny that you should say it like that. Back in the mid 80's, when I first started playing, the owner of the local pool hall, fantastic one hole player, was teaching me to use english on my shots to obtain position. He didn't go into a long serenade about squirt, swerve etc... When I got down and shot the ball with english, and missed of course, the only thing he said to me was shoot it until you can make it. I think that was probably one of the best pieces of advice I ever had.

I think cluttering up your mind with all that crap about how much is it going to squirt, how much it could throw depending on the thickness, breaking down the angle of the shot etc... etc... puts your mind totally in a funk.

Which is why I've always said "The more you know about this game the harder it is" It's also the reason some of the dumbest people in the world have kicked my ass in pool :grin:

I find it pretty natural to look at the object ball and have my brain draw a nice line from it to the pocket and if you can't do that you should find another game/sport to play.:grin:

 

[Bob Callahan]

uh...

When I posted my Pool Hall Wisdom stuff, there was one I didn't post because I was afraid, but maybe I can tuck it into this thread and not get into too much trouble:

• There will always be some new system/gimmick/book/DVD sold by some old, wornout, "champion" or "road" player who doesn't play on the road or in tournaments anymore. It's their form of a "retirement" fund.

Having said that, I still have to say that there's certainly a place for such things with beginners, because guided learning is much faster than discovering something by accident through endless hours of practice.

Aim systems can also be helpful for more advanced players. I have a good example from a couple of nights ago. Even though I am a "science guy", I mostly play bank by feel. The guy I was playing is an advanced shortstop who is now getting out to tournaments and should be a force to reckon with in a couple of years...anyway, we were playing on a crappy-for-bank table, and instead of continuing to be frustrated with his inability to get a good "read" on the table, after a couple of games, he switched to the system Hillbilly teaches--and it worked: his percentages took a big jump.

 

[pool101]

Tom Rosman said when you don't feel the shot,
it is good to have a system to fall back on!
If I am hitting them good it is instinct, when something odd comes up I recall a system an can generally at least get a hit.

Mark

 

[-devil-]

Tom Rosman said when you don't feel the shot,
it is good to have a system to fall back on!
If I am hitting them good it is instinct, when something odd comes up I recall a system an can generally at least get a hit.

Mark

i have a system ... i point my stick at the cueball and hit it towards the ball i hope to make into a pocket ... if it didn't make it then i know i need to point it in a different direction the next shot.

 

[tom mcgonagle]

The game isn't as complicated as some people try to make it. A lot of it is just common sense. See the contact point, on the object -ball, and line up your shot and hit it. Easier said than done. Most of the mistakes made are in the shot alignment.

Some people refuse to believe the shots they continually miss the same way are because they are not seeing the shot the right way. If you over-cut a shot or under cut a shot over and over you're not seeing the shot properly and you need to make the correction.

The balls don't lie and they don't know who hit them. Stop kidding yourself when you miss a shot. It's your fault. Accept the responsibility.

 

[pooltchr]

Some people refuse to believe the shots they continually miss the same way are because they are not seeing the shot the right way. If you over-cut a shot or under cut a shot over and over you're not seeing the shot properly and you need to make the correction.

The balls don't lie and they don't know who hit them. Stop kidding yourself when you miss a shot. It's your fault. Accept the responsibility.

Very true. The laws of physics are not suspended at the pool table. The balls will always do exactly what the shooter causes them to do.

Reps for a very good post

Steve

 

[JoeyA]

I've been holding this in for over five years. If you already can run 30 balls or more, run 3 racks of 9-ball and 8-ball and a few racks of 10-ball you don't need an aiming system…you already have one. The few balls you miss are easy shots that either skid on you, you took the shot for granted trying for good position, you hit OB off your aim point for many reasons. Or they are low percentage shots that pros miss a lot too. The above players should spend more of their time on position and their mental game instead or jumping on every new aiming system that's "the secret". If you can run what I wrote above or more you KNOW HOW TO AIM, it's something else in your game that pops up once in awhile. It could be one of about 10 things…but not your aim.

For players that can't run a rack or so or run 30 in 14.1 you might benefit from a few of the aiming systems, and if I were you I'd try the old proven ones first. Johnnyt

Glad to see you get this off your chest. Five years of holding this is probably what did your feet in. This confession may add many years to your life. With the new feet and the ever-flowing fountain of youth you seem to drink at almost daily, you are surely going to keep on trucking. :grin:

Lots of people seem to agree with you, but I don't. I believe that you should never stop learning and that includes aiming systems.

For me, I think the main reason I miss shots is because I don't align myself correctly on occasion. My perspective of the shot is off every once in a while. I'm going to remain open to aiming systems, aligning systems, perspective systems and gobbly-gook systems. :grin: It's fun to learn new stuff even if you only discard them at a later date. So far, learning aiming systems and other new information hasn't caused my game to go down, even for a short while.
JoeyA

 

[uwate]

You can never stop learning in pool. For example just today I learned about how you can use clown feet to extend the foot on the floor rule.

As always learning new ideas are easy, its all about implemention.
<Dave is searching google now for a clown supply store>

 

[pooltchr]

Joey is correct. We should never stop trying to learn new things. As an instructor, I frequently attend classes with other instructors in hopes of picking up some new piece of information, or a different way of teaching something. It's all about constantly trying to move forward.

If you aren't learning something new, someone else is, and will sooner or later end up using it against you.

Steve

 

[Johnnyt]

Next thing you know we'll have billiard wind and humidity gauges. Opps...I have the humidity gauge already. Johnnyt

 

[JoeyA]

Humility Gauges

Next thing you know we'll have billiard wind and humidity gauges. Opps...I have the humidity gauge already. Johnnyt

Humility gauges are the next fad for pool-play-yaz. :grin:
JoeyA

 

[the420trooper]

You can never stop learning in pool. For example just today I learned about how you can use clown feet to extend the foot on the floor rule.

As always learning new ideas are easy, its all about implemention.
<Dave is searching google now for a clown supply store>

Great idea....I imagine if Earl the Pearl gets wind of this, we can expect to see him bringing stilts to his next match...:grin:

 

[Snapshot9]

It is ALL about the fundamentals!!
Mark

Did you get that? It is all about the Basic Fundamentals of form and stroke.

You only need to know 3 things about a player to know if you can beat him or not: his form, is it correct or has he 'modified' it in some way, does he have straight body lines?

his stroke, is it straight and smooth, does it jerk, does he do the hully gully stroke, does he stroke the cue ball or try to push it?

and last but not least, the way he thinks, does he shoot the right shots, does he play good position, on the right side of the ball, does he play a safety when he should, are his safeties average, good, or real good? How does he break? One break or multiple placement breaks? Does he read the rack before breaking?

After answering all those questions about a player, you may decide that you can not beat them, and then you can go handicapping if you want to, but keep in mind, most players DO NOT want an even game, they just want to WIN.

 

[JoeW]

It is like behavior modification. You can use it intentionally or unintentionally. But you are going to use some system. We all have systems for all kinds of stuff. I’ll bet you keep your car keys in one particular pocket and always reach in that pocket as you approach your car. When some one says “good morning” you say …. And nearly always use the same system to greet the average person you meet. This includes some facial expression, hand movements, voice tone, etc.

Systems are nothing more than organized ways of approaching a problem. If you do not think through the system you use, you will include things that are not needed and things that may hinder what you are trying to accomplish, with a cue ball or with your life.

So, if follows, that one should first learn what systems are available and then select the ones that meet your needs and then study your own system to refine it and get rid of the things that are detrimental.

I suspect that most of us do not like systems that are too rigid or that make unnecessary changes to out usual ways. To get really good at most anything one needs to study it and make subtle changes to their own system. Whether you know it or not, like behavior modification, you have a system.

If you do not acknowledge your own system and its components then you are using only those things that you haphazardly fell upon, some work, some don’t, and some are a waste or possibly harmful.

 

[john schmidt]

hi

ive noticed some people like john rocca in my high school growing up.
it was sickning but he was very good if not great at basketball,baseball,wrestling,running,football,fighting,etc.
he was a very athletic highly coordinated person.he was great at everything with little practice and was better at all those sports quicker than everybody else in high school.
if he would have picked up pool he would have been great real quick.
all the practice in the world only goes so far.
corey duell for example was great at pool at 16.he had only played a few years by the time he was almost pro caliber.
yes the great players have hit a million balls but believe me those guys were making everything after 50,000 balls.
if practice was the main reason then all the girls on the wpba would play like the top guys.trust me some of those girls have played and practiced as much as any male pro.they play great no doubt but not as good as the top guys.its called natural ability.some people can become great if not world class at almost anything they put their minds to.archer,strickland, duell etc etc.