forearm stiffness

spliced

spliced

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've read a lot that v groove points have structural benefits because they add stiffness to the forearm. I'm guessing that means it flexes less.

So why is that stiffness in the forearm so important?

Is a sneaky pete like the one pictured going to have a whippy hit because the points are so low and the forearm is basically solid maple?

Is the taper more important than points regarding stiffness?

How does a core affect stiffness? If the cue pictured were partially cored with maple or a rosewood, what affect would this have on stiffness?

Thanks
Ian

100_0452.jpg


(picture borrowed from buffalofloyd)
 
I believe that points of any kind will add STRENGTH to a forearm. Remember that most of what we call the "hit" or feel" of a cue comes from the tip, ferrule & shaft taper. Stiffness is not much of a factor in a forearm...JER
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
I believe that points of any kind will add STRENGTH to a forearm. Remember that most of what we call the "hit" or feel" of a cue comes from the tip, ferrule & shaft taper. Stiffness is not much of a factor in a forearm...JER
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Thanks for your reply Jerry, but strength needed for what? Resistance to breaking/warping/bending? What else?
 
I like to make my forearms as stiff as possible and the handles as reasonant as possible.
I don't like too much vibration in the forearm. The less vibration there, the more of that reasonance get to the grip hand imo.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I like to make my forearms as stiff as possible and the handles as reasonant as possible.
I don't like too much vibration in the forearm. The less vibration there, the more of that reasonance get to the grip hand imo.
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What do you do to make the forearm as stiff as possible? Core/taper?
 
spliced said:
Thanks for your reply Jerry, but strength needed for what? Resistance to breaking/warping/bending? What else?
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A piece of wood has a visible grain to it. On the 2 sides where the grain lines are close together is where it is strongest & yes the stiffest. Adding points on 4 or more sides acts much like rebar does in concrete. It strengthens all of the sides. The points, whether inlayed or "V" bottomed AND THE GLUE that holds them in place, gives extra strength to the wood. That strength shows itself in resisting warpage & bending, but I don't feel the butt flexes very much. Any force exerted on a bending cue will probably break at it's weakest point. That point is usually about 1" behind the end of the imbedded screw, in the forearm. For example if you lean on a cue while breaking, the shaft, which is tapered, bends. That bending stops at the joint. The joint is much stronger than any part of the shaft. The next weakest place is just behind that joint screw, where the wood does not flex. It doesn't flex, so IT BREAKS at that point...JER
 
I think it depends what you are using for wood. Hard to get an 18 oz cue with ebony or dymondwood as a material unless you core them. Same with burls and other soft exotics, they are beautiful but they should be cored also for hitting purposes. Cocobolo and birdseye have been good players for me in the past, you can use some aluminum or titanium parts to put them together with and keep a reasonable balance and weight....
 
joey in cali

if you like to make your cues as resonant as possible,this actually means they actually vibrate as much as they possibly as they can. being resonant is recurring vibrations or resonance.
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
A piece of wood has a visible grain to it. On the 2 sides where the grain lines are close together is where it is strongest & yes the stiffest. Adding points on 4 or more sides acts much like rebar does in concrete. It strengthens all of the sides. The points, whether inlayed or "V" bottomed AND THE GLUE that holds them in place, gives extra strength to the wood. That strength shows itself in resisting warpage & bending, but I don't feel the butt flexes very much. Any force exerted on a bending cue will probably break at it's weakest point. That point is usually about 1" behind the end of the imbedded screw, in the forearm. For example if you lean on a cue while breaking, the shaft, which is tapered, bends. That bending stops at the joint. The joint is much stronger than any part of the shaft. The next weakest place is just behind that joint screw, where the wood does not flex. It doesn't flex, so IT BREAKS at that point...JER
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Good point, I've seen cues fall gently on carpeting and break there, hit the side of a bar stool or chair and break there, also seen someone get mad and smash cue accross the room and it also breaks there! If you ever see someone do the old deflection test where they tap the cue in the middle of the front prong against their hand to see how much the cue vibrates, thats where you see the most vibration, about an inch or so below the joint. Good point...
 
rob@BPQ said:
if you like to make your cues as resonant as possible,this actually means they actually vibrate as much as they possibly as they can. being resonant is recurring vibrations or resonance.
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Ok.
Or
"the intensification and enriching of a musical tone by supplementary vibration".
Just the handle section.
All within reason of course.
 
I have found that when the cleanliness of theory meets the mess of reality that things I have read or been told about cues are not necessarily so.



DEAN
 
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deanoc said:
I have found that when the cleanliness of theory meets the mess of reality that things I have read or been told about cues are not necessarily so.

That said I found I can take a Schon and play myself with a Meucci and give myself the 7 ball.The problem that keeps me from profiting with this newfound wisdom is that no one will stake the meucci so i am left playing for fun which is no fun

Please contact me if this doesn't answer all of your questions

DEAN
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Go play on some really slow cloth and see if the results are the same. :)
 
my thread was kinda a joke,except i do like cues that play like south west,scruggs,deano,or schon as compared to meucci.i have assumed that stiff is better from my experience
 
spliced said:
I've read a lot that v groove points have structural benefits because they add stiffness to the forearm. I'm guessing that means it flexes less.

So why is that stiffness in the forearm so important?

Is a sneaky pete like the one pictured going to have a whippy hit because the points are so low and the forearm is basically solid maple?

Is the taper more important than points regarding stiffness?

How does a core affect stiffness? If the cue pictured were partially cored with maple or a rosewood, what affect would this have on stiffness?

Thanks
Ian

Ian, I am certain that many opinions will be expressed throughout this thread so here is mine.

First let me say two cue makers have influenced me more personally than all other combined, and they are Burton Spain and David Paul Kershinbrock.

According to Burton, your statement concerning V-Grooved points would be not be correct, because V-Grooved Points are actually an inlay. Burton believed that any points used in a cues forearm other than Full Spliced Points weakened the structural integrity of the cue and detracted from the solid feel of the cue. I also agree with this and while it is not common that V-grooved points fail I do think they can effect the firmness of the cues hit.

When it comes to firmness of hit, I think taper has a great effect on how a cue feels when the tip strikes the cue ball where firmness of hit is concerned. A pioneer in this thinking and the man most responsible for experimenting with and designing cues built in this manner is David Paul Kershinbrock. David developed what is now know as the Parabolic Taper or Double taper of a cues forearm. This design is made using a Parabolic Curve which focuses this power in a manner that intensifies the transmission of power at contact with the cue ball. This technique has been adopted by ever cue maker who had the opportunity to work with Paul and by many others who want their cues to be firm to stiff hitting. Some examples of Cue Builders who are currently using or used this technique or a variation of it are South West, Bender, Omega DPK, and many others.

Coring can also be done to stiffen the hit of cue. This is normally done when softer hitting woods are used as a forearm wood. Each wood has it's own hit and this can even differ when using wood from the same family. Coring is also done when using woods that are not straight grained, have intense figure, or have know structural instability such as Burls, intense Birdseye, and many other beautiful variations of either.
Purple Heart is a Good coring wood if you want a stiff hitting cue, and it is used to strengthen many softer or non-straight grained woods for this purpose. Straight grained Sugar maple which is the hardest variety of Maple is also used for this purpose by many cue builders. But in the end the type of wood used in a core will reflect how a cue maker wants his cues to hit whether stiff, soft or in between.

Hope this helps
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