Forfeiting out of tournament

D

decent dennis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I played in 9 ball tournament this weekend. It's one where you play three during the year and qualify for the money added one at the end of the year.
There is a total of six so as long as you do three your ok. I get a bye first round, lose second round,win third.
This was a 660 and under Fargo rate so there were various handicaps.
So in the losers side i play a guy even race to seven, he gets me down 6 to2, i come back to tie it 6-6 and he gets a
shall we say fortunate three rail lets find a pocket and wins.
He felt bad i didn't play bad and never gave up so could deal with it.
Here's where it gets interesting. I go home as it's getting late and there were 70 something players, and check on the brackets
and see he was supposed to play his son next and forfeited out.
Long story short do you think if he has enough plays he should be allowed to play in the money added event?
I don't know who bought who in calcutta or care but it kind of could be looked at as manipulating the board.
In the state tournament that we used to have which was round robin it was well known if you didn't finish all your
matches you wer not allowed to play again.
 
I think if you pay the entry fee the required amount of times you have put your share in to the end of session tournament.
Tough to beat up on your own kid.
 
I don't have a problem with this event counting as one of his needed three events. However, if I were him I would talk to the people putting on the events to make sure they feel the same way.

He could have played his son, deliberately tanked the match, and it being the same difference as the forfeit. Ernesto and Oscar Dominguez are well known that Ernesto will forfeit or lose to Oscar. Most are satisfied with the forfeit.

I have seen it in other family type competitions like pistol shoots. The parent wants their child to go on so they forfeit or deliberately lose.

I don't see this as entirely fair as the son or other child is effectively playing triple elimination while everyone else is playing double elimination. However, I don't see any way to prevent the parent letting the child go forward, or other stalls. I knew a man that let his wife win. She hated to lose and he would notice it at mealtime and at bedtime for days if he beat her! Better to put up enough battle to let her think she won. As Vince said in The Color of Money, one or two shots can be all it takes.

Hu
 
The sons fargo is 597 vs dads 530. They would have played 8-6. He went on to win 6 more matches and finished third.
 
decent dennis said:
I played in 9 ball tournament this weekend. It's one where you play three during the year and qualify for the money added one at the end of the year.
There is a total of six so as long as you do three your ok. I get a bye first round, lose second round,win third.
This was a 660 and under Fargo rate so there were various handicaps.
So in the losers side i play a guy even race to seven, he gets me down 6 to2, i come back to tie it 6-6 and he gets a
shall we say fortunate three rail lets find a pocket and wins.
He felt bad i didn't play bad and never gave up so could deal with it.
Here's where it gets interesting. I go home as it's getting late and there were 70 something players, and check on the brackets
and see he was supposed to play his son next and forfeited out.
Long story short do you think if he has enough plays he should be allowed to play in the money added event?
I don't know who bought who in calcutta or care but it kind of could be looked at as manipulating the board.
In the state tournament that we used to have which was round robin it was well known if you didn't finish all your
matches you wer not allowed to play again.
Click to expand...

I play my son often in tournaments, sometimes I let him go through, sometimes we play. Funny thing is that HE never lets me go through LOL
The calcutta thing, I am not a fan of them, due to issues like this. Or when players buy other players, now there is an incentive to let them win if you have $50 in a player in a $20 entry tournament and are going to potentially knock them out or to the losers side. I either only get myself, or go in partially with my son or friends. I'm not going to bid on some guy I have a good chance of playing eventually and be faced with having to win or waste my money.
 
What am I missing?

Did he play in the tournament?

If so, he met the requirement of "playing in the tournament".
 
Always a question of how the forfeit affects the integrity of the tournament too. The guy in fourth place might have much rather played the dad!

One way of deciding if something is OK is to look at what would happen if the behavior was more widespread. Suppose 50-60 of the people in this tournament were members of family units and forfeiting back and forth. From a cash standpoint there is effectively a lot of added money in the pot. However, if you came to the tournament to compete and test yourself you would almost certainly be unhappy with mass forfeits every round of the earlier stages.

What is OK for one is OK for all but like some other practices if the practice of forfeits gets too widespread it will destroy the integrity of the event.

Hu
 
What i'm saying is, by him forfeiting it might have changed the outcome for at least six other people,
as his son went on to win six more matches.
Maybe dad beats him maybe he don't.
 
decent dennis said:
What i'm saying is, by him forfeiting it might have changed the outcome for at least six other people,
as his son went on to win six more matches.
Maybe dad beats him maybe he don't.
Click to expand...
That doesn't seem to have anything whatsoever to do with whether or not he played in enough tournaments to qualify for the end of year tournament…

He played.

For what it's worth, I'm not a big fan of early forfeits, but they happen for any number of reasons…
 
decent dennis said:
I played in 9 ball tournament this weekend. It's one where you play three during the year and qualify for the money added one at the end of the year.
There is a total of six so as long as you do three your ok. I get a bye first round, lose second round,win third.
This was a 660 and under Fargo rate so there were various handicaps.
So in the losers side i play a guy even race to seven, he gets me down 6 to2, i come back to tie it 6-6 and he gets a
shall we say fortunate three rail lets find a pocket and wins.
He felt bad i didn't play bad and never gave up so could deal with it.
Here's where it gets interesting. I go home as it's getting late and there were 70 something players, and check on the brackets
and see he was supposed to play his son next and forfeited out.
Long story short do you think if he has enough plays he should be allowed to play in the money added event?
I don't know who bought who in calcutta or care but it kind of could be looked at as manipulating the board.
In the state tournament that we used to have which was round robin it was well known if you didn't finish all your
matches you wer not allowed to play again.
Click to expand...
It's his entry
He can dump the calculcutta buyer by not playing, though they can also be pissed. No different as him dumping the calcutta buyer while playing and going through the motions. This is the risk of buying anyone.

Buddyswon't always play one another. The team up and put the younger, better guy up. Or let a guy get experienced
 
Last edited:
David in FL said:
That doesn't seem to have anything whatsoever to do with whether or not he played in enough tournaments to qualify for the end of year tournament…

He played.

For what it's worth, I'm not a big fan of early forfeits, but they happen for any number of reasons…
Click to expand...
I understand your point and i don't know why he didn't play as i had left but ihave played in a tournament where if you did this you wouldn't play again.
 
it can go both ways if someone dumps the calcutta for value. if he dumps it and it makes you a winner you are happy but if it goes the other way you complain.

you cant have it both ways. and base you decisions or complaints on results.

nothing is completely fair and you have to take the good with the bad.
 
decent dennis said:
I played in 9 ball tournament this weekend. It's one where you play three during the year and qualify for the money added one at the end of the year.
There is a total of six so as long as you do three your ok. I get a bye first round, lose second round,win third.
This was a 660 and under Fargo rate so there were various handicaps.
So in the losers side i play a guy even race to seven, he gets me down 6 to2, i come back to tie it 6-6 and he gets a
shall we say fortunate three rail lets find a pocket and wins.
He felt bad i didn't play bad and never gave up so could deal with it.
Here's where it gets interesting. I go home as it's getting late and there were 70 something players, and check on the brackets
and see he was supposed to play his son next and forfeited out.
Long story short do you think if he has enough plays he should be allowed to play in the money added event?
I don't know who bought who in calcutta or care but it kind of could be looked at as manipulating the board.
In the state tournament that we used to have which was round robin it was well known if you didn't finish all your
matches you wer not allowed to play again.
Click to expand...
It happens all the time. Even in pro events, Ernesto Dominguez will always forfeit if he’s matched up against his son Oscar, in any round.

As far as calcuttas, I learned a long time ago that it is Buyer beware. If you purchase all or part of a player that ends up forfeiting his match at any point, that’s just too bad.
 
ChrisinNC said:
It happens all the time. Even in pro events, Ernesto Dominguez will always forfeit if he’s matched up against his son Oscar, in any round.

As far as calcuttas, I learned a long time ago that it is Buyer beware. If you purchase all or part of a player that ends up forfeiting his match at any point, that’s just too bad.
Click to expand...
I've also seen people come into the tournament knowing that they were only going to stay so long. Maybe because of another commitment later in the day, or the following day if it was scheduled for 2 days.

I've never seen a tournament Director turn down an entry fee because of it.

Admittedly, calcutta money is a different kettle of fish in that case.
 
In 1987, Tommy Kennedy did not show up for his match in the morning of the VNEA Masters. He was shooting very good, so I was looking forward to see another match. Heard that he was in a two man tournament the night before with his next opponent on the bracket and they played for that match in addition to the "entry fee" that each put up. Tommy lost that match the night before, so forfeited the next morning. No calcutta involved.
 
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