Free Streaming Bad for Pool?

I believe it is apples to oranges here. I have done free streaming since 2008 and have seen people go from a webcam to multiple cameras which is awesome. I think comparing the free streams which are usually one or two cameras and not the best quality or commentary to others that are multiple higher end cameras, great commentary, bigger money involved does not make any sense.

I do not mind paying for streams because of the quality of the whole production but most free streams lack that so who would really pay for it unless its the match of the century. I think for the free streams getting sponsors makes perfect sense because they get bigger numbers then the PPVs and its probably 100 times if not more who tune in for it total. I cannot believe people pay money to watch a tournament that is a couple grand added or something like that and that sponsors go along with it as does the room and tournament promoter because I do not see how it makes any sense for them since the numbers will be low who tune in so no big exposure.

I do not think it makes sense for sponsors to get involved with PPV because the number of viewers is a couple hundred I am guessing for the whole show. You could counter and say that those people spend money buy buying the PPV so they will probably spend money on product also, I just do not see it.

I buy the PPV if I am betting on it plain and simple, I suspect a good amount of PPV buyers are betting on it also. If I am busy with life and other things I might still bet on the match and not even watch it or buy it as I did this past weekend.
 
The PPV model is based on what the UFC is currently doing. What is lacking is the morality play. You know the good versus evil thing that worked for WWF and wrestling in the 50's. In pool there is no Brock Lesner or Rowdy Ronda Rousey to carry the card. Free stream can establish players names thats about all . Once you see them you realize how bland they are. Only one has established himself as a bad guy to be feared. Everyone else is milktoast.
 
I view myself as a fan and a student of pool. I enjoy watching it played at the highest level. I have travelled to professional tournaments and to tournaments where professionals are mixed with, well, I guess we could call them semi professional player like those that attend Turning Stone. When streaming became available I bought what I needed to get the best quality that I could and also enable me to put it on my large screen TV. While streaming is still relatively in its infancy and needs to find its way, I believe that it may be able to fill the void that broadcast television has created in respect of pool.

In the past I would only see the Mosconi Cup some months after it was over and often not in a proper sequence via the television network that was using it to fill dead time. This year I was pleased to see a posting on Facebook indicating that I would be able to see it live via a FREE link. In going to the Matchroom web site I discovered that they were streaming it via PPV for $4.99. I chose to pay rather than use the free link for two reasons. First was that I feel that those of us who want to see more events like this, as they happen so to speak, should support them by paying. Secondly, and I cannot stress this enough, THE FEE WAS REASONABLE! I would continue to support this event provider, Matchroom Pool (and have since bought other events) because, in addition to a reasonable cost, when there was a problem with the stream I had an email contact that answered within a few minutes and resolved things.

Compare this experience to the PPV for the U.S. Bar Box Championships. Cost $50.00. I felt that in comparison to my Mosconi experience the PPV fee was a little high but certainly less expensive than going there. While I might second guess some of the matches that made the stream table and some that didn’t, overall it was a pretty good selection. However, the ending was not only a disappointment it was unprofessional. Although I would have thought that the mens final should have been the main event and the final match I found out that the final match would be the woman's final. No, surprised as I was at this, it was not the reason why I said it was a disappointment and unprofessional. The following was;

The woman’s final deteriorated into a farce with one of the contestants clearly trying to throw off the rhythm of her opponent by slowing down the match. She would stand and stare at the table for so long I thought that the stream had frozen. The same commentator that had been quick to come from behind the mike and tell other players not to pattern rack etc. now became speechless. Instead of putting these girls on a clock he started to say that he was having “audio difficulties”. The chat stream quickly responded saying “No, Ken, we can hear you fine.” In spite of this, with perfect audio, he announced that he had to step out of the booth so the audio difficulties could be resolved. We were now left with a PPV stream that had no commentator and a player taking so long between shots that you were left wondering if the stream had frozen. What did TAR do? Eventually they quit changing the score that was shown on the screen, went to one camera where you could see the actual scorecard in the background and appeared to abandon ship with Ken. No attempt to get an answer by email or via chat was responded to. I have not subscribed to a TAR event since, even though they have had some very good events.

Compare this to AccuStats. I went to the January Turning Stone event and through some lack of thought booked myself from Thursday to Sunday. If I had taken a few seconds to think this through I would have booked through Monday. I realized on Saturday that by the time the finals happened Sunday that I would have a long return trip with a very late start. Because AccuStats was streaming it, I decided to leave Sunday morning, got home by noon and watched the stream for the rest of the day. I then made a point of subscribing to their PPV at Derby City. Both of their streams were good, both commentaries were great, the Derby City PPV was really, really, good (like watching a television production) and the cost was reasonable. I would subscribe to an AccuStats production without hesitation as long as they kept the cost reasonable and the production value as professional as they do.

Also, there is Inside Pool who comes up with some really fine, free streams. While production value is not top tier, the commentary is and they do develop a base of interest in watching pool being streamed that, I believe, helps to grow this area overall.

Finally, many leagues now stream some of their matches, playoffs and championships. Our local APA affiliate does a good job in this regard and many lower level players are starting to see the entertainment value and the potential for learning that this offers. They represent a vast untapped source of future viewers to the above organizations. In my small way I have attempted to influence them to watch more streams and of the value of watching the major events on PPV (although I realize that my effort pales in comparison to the ongoing, tireless support of Upstate Al and Alison Fischer).

I believe that it is a combination of free streams, PPV priced to reach more than just the hard core fan (think of the number of league players and bar players that could be brought into the fan base) and the building of real celebrity in terms of Star players that the fan can relate to. By way of full disclosure, my background is in the entertainment industry and I have more than a small amount of knowledge in terms of star power and what it takes to develop an artist into a Star.

At this stage pool as entertainment is in its infancy and needs exposure and marketing to expand the core base of fans. I do not feel that the problem for organizations such as TAR is the threat of the free streams as much as it is getting a larger audience to buy into their brand. Watching Alex, Shane, Mike, Earl, Busty, Efren et al. play each other or others in a tournament does not compare to seeing them play in a race to 100 or in 3 separate disciplines as an event. The excitement generated in the Mosconi Cup, US Open, US Bar table championships is not diminished by seeing some of the same players via free stream at Turning Stone. In fact, had I believe that Turning Stone helped to showcase Jayson Shaw to a wider audience and along with a few subsequent events has helped in building the stature he needs for a TAR event. However, to attract a larger audience for that event he would have to become more known to that larger audience.
.

I recognize that I am a little more enthusiastic for this than the average pool fan and view pool entertainment as a primary activity in which I use disposable income to indulge myself. However, after factoring this in, I hope that I have been able to provide a little insight that will help the pioneers such as TAR, AccuStats and Inside Pool to grow the streaming of events in this industry to full potential.
 
Bad example. Youtube brings revenue to independent producers and performers. Pornhub does the same.

In other words, if pool streaming mirrored the internet porn industry, the pro's would be keeping all the money, while the big shot promoters go bankrupt. The difference is porn stars know what they're worth. Pro pool players can't balance a check book.

Really? Youtube has porn? I must be looking in the wrong spots. Your telling me all these free tubes pay real dollars to the big studios? Your kidding yourself. If the producers don't make money there is no trickle down effect and it becomes amateur hour.

Nick
 
I view myself as a fan and a student of pool. I enjoy watching it played at the highest level. I have travelled to professional tournaments and to tournaments where professionals are mixed with, well, I guess we could call them semi professional player like those that attend Turning Stone. When streaming became available I bought what I needed to get the best quality that I could and also enable me to put it on my large screen TV. While streaming is still relatively in its infancy and needs to find its way, I believe that it may be able to fill the void that broadcast television has created in respect of pool.

In the past I would only see the Mosconi Cup some months after it was over and often not in a proper sequence via the television network that was using it to fill dead time. This year I was pleased to see a posting on Facebook indicating that I would be able to see it live via a FREE link. In going to the Matchroom web site I discovered that they were streaming it via PPV for $4.99. I chose to pay rather than use the free link for two reasons. First was that I feel that those of us who want to see more events like this, as they happen so to speak, should support them by paying. Secondly, and I cannot stress this enough, THE FEE WAS REASONABLE! I would continue to support this event provider, Matchroom Pool (and have since bought other events) because, in addition to a reasonable cost, when there was a problem with the stream I had an email contact that answered within a few minutes and resolved things.

Compare this experience to the PPV for the U.S. Bar Box Championships. Cost $50.00. I felt that in comparison to my Mosconi experience the PPV fee was a little high but certainly less expensive than going there. While I might second guess some of the matches that made the stream table and some that didn’t, overall it was a pretty good selection. However, the ending was not only a disappointment it was unprofessional. Although I would have thought that the mens final should have been the main event and the final match I found out that the final match would be the woman's final. No, surprised as I was at this, it was not the reason why I said it was a disappointment and unprofessional. The following was;

The woman’s final deteriorated into a farce with one of the contestants clearly trying to throw off the rhythm of her opponent by slowing down the match. She would stand and stare at the table for so long I thought that the stream had frozen. The same commentator that had been quick to come from behind the mike and tell other players not to pattern rack etc. now became speechless. Instead of putting these girls on a clock he started to say that he was having “audio difficulties”. The chat stream quickly responded saying “No, Ken, we can hear you fine.” In spite of this, with perfect audio, he announced that he had to step out of the booth so the audio difficulties could be resolved. We were now left with a PPV stream that had no commentator and a player taking so long between shots that you were left wondering if the stream had frozen. What did TAR do? Eventually they quit changing the score that was shown on the screen, went to one camera where you could see the actual scorecard in the background and appeared to abandon ship with Ken. No attempt to get an answer by email or via chat was responded to. I have not subscribed to a TAR event since, even though they have had some very good events.

Compare this to AccuStats. I went to the January Turning Stone event and through some lack of thought booked myself from Thursday to Sunday. If I had taken a few seconds to think this through I would have booked through Monday. I realized on Saturday that by the time the finals happened Sunday that I would have a long return trip with a very late start. Because AccuStats was streaming it, I decided to leave Sunday morning, got home by noon and watched the stream for the rest of the day. I then made a point of subscribing to their PPV at Derby City. Both of their streams were good, both commentaries were great, the Derby City PPV was really, really, good (like watching a television production) and the cost was reasonable. I would subscribe to an AccuStats production without hesitation as long as they kept the cost reasonable and the production value as professional as they do.

Also, there is Inside Pool who comes up with some really fine, free streams. While production value is not top tier, the commentary is and they do develop a base of interest in watching pool being streamed that, I believe, helps to grow this area overall.

Finally, many leagues now stream some of their matches, playoffs and championships. Our local APA affiliate does a good job in this regard and many lower level players are starting to see the entertainment value and the potential for learning that this offers. They represent a vast untapped source of future viewers to the above organizations. In my small way I have attempted to influence them to watch more streams and of the value of watching the major events on PPV (although I realize that my effort pales in comparison to the ongoing, tireless support of Upstate Al and Alison Fischer).

I believe that it is a combination of free streams, PPV priced to reach more than just the hard core fan (think of the number of league players and bar players that could be brought into the fan base) and the building of real celebrity in terms of Star players that the fan can relate to. By way of full disclosure, my background is in the entertainment industry and I have more than a small amount of knowledge in terms of star power and what it takes to develop an artist into a Star.

At this stage pool as entertainment is in its infancy and needs exposure and marketing to expand the core base of fans. I do not feel that the problem for organizations such as TAR is the threat of the free streams as much as it is getting a larger audience to buy into their brand. Watching Alex, Shane, Mike, Earl, Busty, Efren et al. play each other or others in a tournament does not compare to seeing them play in a race to 100 or in 3 separate disciplines as an event. The excitement generated in the Mosconi Cup, US Open, US Bar table championships is not diminished by seeing some of the same players via free stream at Turning Stone. In fact, had I believe that Turning Stone helped to showcase Jayson Shaw to a wider audience and along with a few subsequent events has helped in building the stature he needs for a TAR event. However, to attract a larger audience for that event he would have to become more known to that larger audience.
.

I recognize that I am a little more enthusiastic for this than the average pool fan and view pool entertainment as a primary activity in which I use disposable income to indulge myself. However, after factoring this in, I hope that I have been able to provide a little insight that will help the pioneers such as TAR, AccuStats and Inside Pool to grow the streaming of events in this industry to full potential.

The womens final was supposed to be before the mens in Reno. It was changed for whatever reason. Thats a whole can of worms I'm not going to get into. Call it unprofessional if you want. The same thing happens every year. It would make my life much easier if I never do another tournament again.
 
The womens final was supposed to be before the mens in Reno. It was changed for whatever reason. Thats a whole can of worms I'm not going to get into. Call it unprofessional if you want. The same thing happens every year. It would make my life much easier if I never do another tournament again.

JCIN it is sometimes difficult for me to keep my sentiments in respect of being a player, an avid fan, a student of pool and a rabid consumer (customer) in proper perspective. However, in that post and in this response to your post I am simply offering an opinion from the perspective of what I feel is needed to make the streaming of pool a business success to the benefit of everyone. I am being self serving to some extent because of my interest in the sport and what I feel has been the neglect of the mainstream media. I want you, and others in this the business, to succeed.

One of the reasons I enjoyed Jay Helferts book, Pool Wars, was that he has, in my opinion, at times been able to balance the many often conflicting parts of this industry successfully even though those same parts often work at odds with each other. If you read, starting on page 128, some of his adventures in promotion (the first Los Angeles Open is a good example) he did a lot of things right. Unfortunately, what could have been a good beginning and a template for building upon went to waste; there is an element in the pool world that works against it going main stream. I think that it goes beyond the problems with autocratic tour commissioners getting greedy and other issues outlined in Jay’s book. Simply put, I hope that some of those same elements do not derail the potential of streaming.

As a side note, I was surprised (with all due respect to Jay) to find as I read what had started to be a road warrior stories book that he was a very astute promoter. I won’t expand on this other than to say that, in my humble opinion, pool needs more like him, and, I suspect without having ever met the man, Pat Fleming who Jay refers to in the book.

As a player, an avid fan, a student of pool and a rabid consumer (customer) I will say again that I want you to succeed. Because of that I feel that I would be remiss if I did not point out that as a Customer of TAR your answer was not one that is conducive to this. It was more the answer I would expect from a pool player that also does live streams and who was offended by the reference to the incident that was described as not being professional.

With all due respect I would offer you this example of an answer to a customer that would have been more appropriate and positive.

“Thanks for your comments in general and the points made in respect of the TAR stream for the U.S. Bar Table Championships in particular. I am sorry that it did not end as you, or we, would have liked. In hindsight we might have handled it a little differently. While we feel our strength is doing the many great special events that we are known for, where we have complete control over the environment, we also do tournaments such as this where that complete control is not possible. Candidly, faced with the frustrations that come with not having that control we sometimes wonder why we do it. We will continue to put together interesting events that we hope our customers enjoy with the aim to keep getting better. I hope that you will give us a try again.”

JCIN, I offer these comments in a constructive way. Although I stand by the way that I expressed myself in respect of that one event I truly did not mean to give you offense.
 
thewiffer,

The issue at the USBTC in Reno: I believe I was the person to blame for this confusion.

This is my recollection - and it is probably basically corrrect but with some errors.

The men's final was scheduled for an approximate time.
The women's final could be played NOW - which was maybe 45 minutes before the men's was scheduled.

If we did the men's as scheduled, the women could be sitting around for 3 hours or so.

I thought it was be best for everyone to just do the women event and then follow that with the men's.

I also believe the women deserve their time on the streaming table. Unfortunately, they both played much slower and weaker than they did in their previous matches, This threw the schedule behind a little bit. But the bottom line is that we had the women's final and the men's final on streaming.

I am not going to apologize because I think we provided more than what was planned. The USBTC is a great event. And TAR did a great job streaming it.

Just remember that we (CSI) tries to keep many people as content as possible. I am sorry if you feel that we let you down. We are responsive to customer complaints and constructive crtiticism.

Mark Griffin,
 
Take note "Industry Professionals" this is how you respond to customer. Nice job Mark, no matter how many errors were in the response. .. ha-ha!!

thewiffer,

The issue at the USBTC in Reno: I believe I was the person to blame for this confusion.

This is my recollection - and it is probably basically corrrect but with some errors.

The men's final was scheduled for an approximate time.
The women's final could be played NOW - which was maybe 45 minutes before the men's was scheduled.

If we did the men's as scheduled, the women could be sitting around for 3 hours or so.

I thought it was be best for everyone to just do the women event and then follow that with the men's.

I also believe the women deserve their time on the streaming table. Unfortunately, they both played much slower and weaker than they did in their previous matches, This threw the schedule behind a little bit. But the bottom line is that we had the women's final and the men's final on streaming.

I am not going to apologize because I think we provided more than what was planned. The USBTC is a great event. And TAR did a great job streaming it.

Just remember that we (CSI) tries to keep many people as content as possible. I am sorry if you feel that we let you down. We are responsive to customer complaints and constructive crtiticism.

Mark Griffin,
 
I'll tell you who it's bad for: Accu-Stats.

I used to buy plenty of matches from them. But now, with the proliferation of streams and matches online, not so much.

Lou Figueroa
 
JCIN it is sometimes difficult for me to keep my sentiments in respect of being a player, an avid fan, a student of pool and a rabid consumer (customer) in proper perspective. However, in that post and in this response to your post I am simply offering an opinion from the perspective of what I feel is needed to make the streaming of pool a business success to the benefit of everyone. I am being self serving to some extent because of my interest in the sport and what I feel has been the neglect of the mainstream media. I want you, and others in this the business, to succeed.

One of the reasons I enjoyed Jay Helferts book, Pool Wars, was that he has, in my opinion, at times been able to balance the many often conflicting parts of this industry successfully even though those same parts often work at odds with each other. If you read, starting on page 128, some of his adventures in promotion (the first Los Angeles Open is a good example) he did a lot of things right. Unfortunately, what could have been a good beginning and a template for building upon went to waste; there is an element in the pool world that works against it going main stream. I think that it goes beyond the problems with autocratic tour commissioners getting greedy and other issues outlined in Jay’s book. Simply put, I hope that some of those same elements do not derail the potential of streaming.

As a side note, I was surprised (with all due respect to Jay) to find as I read what had started to be a road warrior stories book that he was a very astute promoter. I won’t expand on this other than to say that, in my humble opinion, pool needs more like him, and, I suspect without having ever met the man, Pat Fleming who Jay refers to in the book.

As a player, an avid fan, a student of pool and a rabid consumer (customer) I will say again that I want you to succeed. Because of that I feel that I would be remiss if I did not point out that as a Customer of TAR your answer was not one that is conducive to this. It was more the answer I would expect from a pool player that also does live streams and who was offended by the reference to the incident that was described as not being professional.

With all due respect I would offer you this example of an answer to a customer that would have been more appropriate and positive.

“Thanks for your comments in general and the points made in respect of the TAR stream for the U.S. Bar Table Championships in particular. I am sorry that it did not end as you, or we, would have liked. In hindsight we might have handled it a little differently. While we feel our strength is doing the many great special events that we are known for, where we have complete control over the environment, we also do tournaments such as this where that complete control is not possible. Candidly, faced with the frustrations that come with not having that control we sometimes wonder why we do it. We will continue to put together interesting events that we hope our customers enjoy with the aim to keep getting better. I hope that you will give us a try again.”

JCIN, I offer these comments in a constructive way. Although I stand by the way that I expressed myself in respect of that one event I truly did not mean to give you offense.
I can tell you now based on the last couple posts there is little chance I am going to live up to your expectations.
 
I'll tell you who it's bad for: Accu-Stats.

I used to buy plenty of matches from them. But now, with the proliferation of streams and matches online, not so much.

Lou Figueroa

Yup. I don't see the trend ever reversing either. Jerry Forsythe made a post early in this thread that sums up exactly how I think its all going to play out.
 
you sir and an idiot and prove this by your 7th grade comment that takes advantage of something that is totally coincidental and not of that which was brought up. I can clearly see that you are just another groupie.

You nailed it!:thumbup:
 
My 2 cents...

Free Streams: I usually forget they're even available but when I remember, and I have time to watch it, I will check it out. If there is no match currently going on, or the quality is bad (bad picture and/or commentary), I will go do something else and forget all about it.

Paid Streams: I have only paid for one stream, the TAR match this past Friday. Why? Because I got other shit I gotta/wanna do on my weekend nights. Can I watch them repeated throughout the weekend? Yeah, but I got shit to do during the day on the weekends.

DVDs: I love Accu-stats DVDs because they are high quality and available whenever the hell I want to watch them. My DVD player always has an Accu-stats in it and I watch a few racks of whatever and then go on to do other things. And I don't have to be in front of a computer to watch them. I can sit on my comfy couch and relax.

So... in my experience with streams and what-not, more often than not you get what you pay for. Free streams are low quality (compared to the other options). TAR streams (given my sample size of 1) are a great value for your dollar: good picture, commentary, and Friday's 8-ball match was great to watch). DVDs are my favorite because a) high quality video b) great production (e.g., camera work) and c) I can watch them when I want to.

(This is not some indirect plea to Justin to put TAR matches on DVD... he has repeatedly answered why he does not and I fully accept his answer.)
 
thewiffer,

The issue at the USBTC in Reno: I believe I was the person to blame for this confusion.

This is my recollection - and it is probably basically corrrect but with some errors.

The men's final was scheduled for an approximate time.
The women's final could be played NOW - which was maybe 45 minutes before the men's was scheduled.

If we did the men's as scheduled, the women could be sitting around for 3 hours or so.

I thought it was be best for everyone to just do the women event and then follow that with the men's.

I also believe the women deserve their time on the streaming table. Unfortunately, they both played much slower and weaker than they did in their previous matches, This threw the schedule behind a little bit. But the bottom line is that we had the women's final and the men's final on streaming.

I am not going to apologize because I think we provided more than what was planned. The USBTC is a great event. And TAR did a great job streaming it.

Just remember that we (CSI) tries to keep many people as content as possible. I am sorry if you feel that we let you down. We are responsive to customer complaints and constructive crtiticism.

Mark Griffin,

Thank you for taking the time to comment/explain, much appreciated.

My comments were not a complaint about the schedule. I merely noted that I was surprised that the Women’s Final was played after the Men’s as I thought the celebrity of the participants in the men’s final would make them the “main event” but the order did not matter at the time or now.

I agree with, and applaud, your giving the women’s competitors streaming time. Again, scheduling was never an issue.

I do not know what you planned so I cannot comment if you did, in fact, provide more. I am quite happy with everything that was provided in respect of matches and competitors. It was, and is, a great event and, for the most part, TAR did do a great job in streaming it.

My comment in respect of a lack of professionalism was based on the appearance that the commentator, and then the camera operator/producer, abandoned ship when the ladies match became so odious. I felt that Ken, who had actively intervened/acted as a referee in prior matches could have handled it better than doing the “we have an audio problem” duck out (although I have turned this into a hilarious parody that has delivered a lot of laughs to my pool playing friends).

Mark, my nature is to be very positive especially when it comes to pool. I believe that TAR, and/or others like them, is very good for our sport. It drives me crazy when mainstream media here in Canada (TSN/Sportsnet) present major pool events several months after they happen and then in a haphazard order as fill in.

Professional Stream providers fill a void and I not only want them to succeed but I would like to see them prosper to the point of moving from the niche of providing live tournament and interesting made for streaming content for hard core fans such as myself to becoming mainstream providers (as such they will be held to a higher standard) of all things pool to a wide audience. In my perfect world events like the Amway Cup would be available, live and with English commentary, to a large enough base of fans that it could be provided at a reasonable per viewer cost.

I believe that there is a larger potential fan base than is currently being tapped. In my estimation/thinking (based on what I observe in the various leagues available here) less that 5% subscribe to PPV streaming. I am continually surprised to find that many of the average league players do not know who the top players in the world are and are not aware of the major events. In my experience when I have an opportunity to expose them to this world they become fans; to a person, male and female, young and old.

Back to TAR in particular. Thanks again for your response I will certainly be an avid supporter and, to whatever extent possible, encourage others to follow suit.

Keep putting together the interesting events that you do but do not give up on tournaments. JCIN wouldn’t know what to do if things were too easy and if our expectations for him were too low.

Jerry
 
I'll tell you who it's bad for: Accu-Stats.

I used to buy plenty of matches from them. But now, with the proliferation of streams and matches online, not so much.

Lou Figueroa

Yup. I don't see the trend ever reversing either. Jerry Forsythe made a post early in this thread that sums up exactly how I think its all going to play out.

In a way, I agree as well. The free streamers are going to do some damage. In a consumer-driven market, that's the only way it can play out.

However, I'm not sure I'm a fan of the "stream once," and it's forever gone without a record of it (save for those few streamers that put in the effort to upload a recording to Vimeo, YouTube, etc.). The nice thing about a DVD product is that it's a static "play anytime you want" recording not beholden to loop schedules or needing an Internet connection to view. Just pop it into your player and enjoy. There are certain classic matches that are timeless and should be preserved on a hard medium.

I still maintain my Accu-Stats VOM membership, and there are certain DVDs (e.g. of 14.1 and one pocket) that I refer back to, from time to time. That includes both Accu-Stats and older TAR DVD products, btw. There are just certain matches that are so chock full of good stuff that it would be a shame to make them vulnerable to a "cloud" library's storage policy -- where the streamer/owner may decide one day to delete, to free up some paid-by-the-month cloud storage space for new material. Once that recording is gone, that's it -- good luck finding someone that still has it and can make it available to you, without violating anti-piracy laws.

Anyway, no matter the medium -- DVD or cloud -- I support all you guys.

-Sean
 
In a way, I agree as well. The free streamers are going to do some damage. In a consumer-driven market, that's the only way it can play out.

However, I'm not sure I'm a fan of the "stream once," and it's forever gone without a record of it (save for those few streamers that put in the effort to upload a recording to Vimeo, YouTube, etc.). The nice thing about a DVD product is that it's a static "play anytime you want" recording not beholden to loop schedules or needing an Internet connection to view. Just pop it into your player and enjoy. There are certain classic matches that are timeless and should be preserved on a hard medium.

I still maintain my Accu-Stats VOM membership, and there are certain DVDs (e.g. of 14.1 and one pocket) that I refer back to, from time to time. That includes both Accu-Stats and older TAR DVD products, btw. There are just certain matches that are so chock full of good stuff that it would be a shame to make them vulnerable to a "cloud" library's storage policy -- where the streamer/owner may decide one day to delete, to free up some paid-by-the-month cloud storage space for new material. Once that recording is gone, that's it -- good luck finding someone that still has it and can make it available to you, without violating anti-piracy laws.

Anyway, no matter the medium -- DVD or cloud -- I support all you guys.

-Sean

Totally agree from this stand point. These matches are THE historical record of pool in the USA (God Bless Accu-stats for starting this...) or Earl, Buddy, Sigel, Varner would have gone the way of Lasiter, Crane and all the other greats. Rumors of legendary challenge matches... or great tournament wins... old guys saying “ah, you should have seen xxxx... play”...

We can debate the staged events BUT when events have title US Open in the front ... (9 Ball, 10 Ball, 1 pkt, now 8 Ball) ... there is almost a fiduciary responsibility to the game to preserve the historical record. One copy to the BCA Library or copy right for the library of congress at a minimum for research or scholarship.

50 years from now some of the players today will be in the Pantheon of the Greats... a visual record of their US Open 1 pkt win or wins separated by decades.. to be lost forever is just to much of a heartbreaking thought to contemplate.

I am sure Mark Griffin recognizes this and as a historian and keeper of the game will do his best that some tangible evidence survives into the future. At least this is my hope.:angel:
 
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