From time to time people ask me for advice on their game..
- Thread starter Straightpool_99
- Start date
I think its like this with everything, not just pool. I used to get "how to" questions at the race track all the time. Most of the time the guy you are helping never heeds your advice (that he asked you for) or they just say "that wont work".
I noticed a guy on my pool team the other night had an extension in the middle of his cue. He is possibly just a little better than a banger you might find playing for drinks in a bar, but maybe not even though he has been playing for at least 20 years. I asked him why he started using the extension. "I got it for Xmas" was his only reason for using it. I noticed his bridge length was still about the same and he was holding the butt in the same location so his forearm no long is perpendicular to the floor but extended quite far backwards.
Big time jealous of you I am...
That's why he could run 100 balls on command and stopped at 526 'cause he was tired. He could make the shot and get shape 5 different ways, depending on what the pattern was...just find the path and he would make the CB follow it. The top ranks of today's pool world are lucky if they see two paths for every shot, let alone 5! I truly wish there were more YouTube videos of him out there, especially in his prime...and that goes for Greenleaf and Worst, too. There was a lot of really special pool played before 1988, and it's a shame it's lost. Could you imagine HD videos of TV tables at Johnson City? Any of the tournaments Greenleaf played? A young Irving Crane vs. a younger Mosconi? I think there were moves in their games not seen in decades and maybe never again...
Reminds me of a student I was trying to work on fundamentals with. He refused to have the cue tip closer than 2 inches from the cue ball when addressing it. He wouldn't even try to approach the cue ball closely once. He got angry at me for asking him to try.
I guess some people just have to find their own way. Some of the rest of us appreciate learning about useful paths others have discovered.
That's funny stuff but true enough.
I seldom give free advice for the very reasons you mentioned and others as well. My blood pressure goes up substantially when the "student" says, "Yeah but I shoot it like this." I'm going to start saying "And that's why you play like you do!" Oh never mind, I will just let them hit it their way. Lol
I took my sports psychologist's suggestion. Anyone trying to learn something from you, HAS TO HAVE SOME SKIN IN THE PROCE$$.
JoeyA
I seldom give free advice for the very reasons you mentioned and others as well. My blood pressure goes up substantially when the "student" says, "Yeah but I shoot it like this." I'm going to start saying "And that's why you play like you do!" Oh never mind, I will just let them hit it their way. Lol
I took my sports psychologist's suggestion. Anyone trying to learn something from you, HAS TO HAVE SOME SKIN IN THE PROCE$$.
JoeyA
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Sorry to be really blunt, but I've yet so see anyone's game really change due to advice or lessons. That may not be a popular view, but to excel in a sport or game is within you, not someone else's advice.
All the best,
WW
I disagree, there is a learning curve to this game. Some people it is quick, but for most it is a longer process. With proper instruction/advice that curve can be quickened as long as the person does the work/changes needed.
And with not much time to spare, WildWing jumps into the lead for Worst Post of the Year.
Congrats!
Sorry, without evidence, you beat me to it.
I believe you. On the other hand, I've seen lots of people improve immediately from lessons.
I'd like to believe that, but I haven't seen much of it. Maybe with beginning fundamentals shown, it's a good start. But I don't think that was what the OP was talking about. I think he was talking about advice to people who have been playing for some time, which led to his frustrated opening comment. I understand that. From what I've seen, a few months after advice, lessons, etc, players have pretty much the same game they had before. The old habits tend to come back.
From observation, top players do watch a lot to learn in the formative stages, but then they develop their game through hard practice and competition. I think that's true of pretty much any hand-eye coordination sport. Again, I don't think beginning fundamentals was what the OP was talking about.
A Cup of Tea
Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.
Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor’s cup full, and then kept on pouring.
The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. “It is overfull. No more will go in!”
“Like this cup,” Nan-in said, “you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?”
Same goes for pool.
Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.
Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor’s cup full, and then kept on pouring.
The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. “It is overfull. No more will go in!”
“Like this cup,” Nan-in said, “you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?”
Same goes for pool.
It is like that with everything. The driving range I used to work at had a phenomenal teaching pro. I took a few lessons and with practice I went from shooting 90s to 70s in a couple years. If you listen and do the work you get the results. There were people who took a weekly lesson for months and years on end and never improved 1 iota. Some people are teachable and willing to work. Some people act like they want to learn and just aren't teachable. Hate to hear that people with good information to pass on are clamming up because some folks can't get it.
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That's why you generally should have ongoing coaching and not just a single lesson to get the best results. You are right, those habits tend to come back without you realizing it, which is why once a month or bi-monthly lessons would help someone improve and maintain improvements and build on it.
I do think a dedicated player can improve with one-off lessons but I do understand your position and I admit I rarely see players improve noticeably after a certain point.
With that in mind improvements can be small enough that others do not notice anything, but to the player in question, they feel like they are playing better. Increased consistency is hard for others to notice, but it means the world to the learner.
You've basically confirmed my point. Intelligently, I might add. That could leave lovers of bieber grasping for sagacity...
All the best,
WW
you know why the ones youve seen didn't find lasting and noticable results?
because they do not practice, they do not work on the methods, drills, or techniques......they 'ingest' the info then figure 'well i heard and saw.......so next thing please' as if by some act of osmosis it just seeps into their games.
Unless your getting advice from someone without enough knowledge to help you, or your not putting the required time in mastering the skills through a dedicated practice regimine you actually take seriously.
I get students that will learn things......never work on it....their games dont change......then they come ask me more things and how that area still isn't getting better........
answer is always always always
'well got dam i been playing every day since'
oh so how many times haave you worked 'x' drill?
ummmmm how do you do 'x' drill again?
its like no child left behind......some of them just dont give a dam
some horses.....even when they are dying of thirst.......just dont like water.....because waters no fun....they want a got dam coke.
in closing dub........if a quality instructor and student pair is not worth its salt......then i dont see how or why any schools are even open from prek to college......because its no differient. You must practice what you have learned and commit to memory and subconscious.
since when you leave NPR homeslice?
-Greyghost