Fundamentals - Stroke Speed

Pidge

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are you a firm hitter or a soft touch specialist? Neither is the right or wrong way to do things, but I'm a firm believer that stroking firm rewards the player more.

Firstly, when I have a shot where I can hit the ball firm or soft I elect to hit it firm for a few reasons. Most importantly is the table. You don't want a bad roll caused by a speck of chalk or an uneven table to ruin your chances of winning. It happened far too often when I was a kid playing in leagues. I learned to take this out of the equation by hitting shots firmer when I could. Sometimes you just have to slow roll some shots, but often you have a choice.

Secondly, people have a tendency to tighten up when playing slow shots. Any tiny bit of side imparted means swerve comes into play. How many times have you missed a slow roll because the ball veered off and you blamed the table for being uneven? Chances are it could have been swerve.

I think the biggest factor for me is I can hit the cue ball in lots more places and still have the spin on the cue ball upon impact. For example - someone who has a slower stroke speed than me but is faced with the exact same shot of drawing straight back 2ft will have to hit the ball much lower. I would maybe only have to hit a tip and a half low and have the ball punch back (in snooker we would call this a stun screw type shot) whereas the slow stroke guy would have to hit maybe a whole tip lower to get the same CB position. This leaves the possibility of getting too much draw.

A slower stroke also brings decelerating through the ball into play. I see lots of players who like the softly softly approach who jab at the ball, especially when the balls are close.

How do you get a firmer natural stroke speed? Practice, and lots of it. Because you are about to hit the shot firm, doesn't mean you should use your warm up strokes as if you're about to break... Nice and steady on the back stroke, a little pause, and this pause will force you to accelerate through the ball and hit shots firmer.

So, just a little post this time. It isn't really a fundamental as such, its more of a natural characteristic. But try it and see how it goes. It isn't for everyone, I understand this. But maybe, just maybe you can start hitting the balls cleaner.

Happy New Year :-)
 
You don't have to decelerate through the cue ball with a slower stroke. Make your backstroke the same as your forward stroke and finish your stroke.

That is some good stuff here in your OP. I've been working on this very thing for a while now.
 
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It is real easy to spot those that don't play 14.1 or 1 pocket.

Your stroke needs to be based what's is needed for the shot. If a firm hit is needed, do it, if a soft hit is needed, do it.

Oh......what's a firm hit? Is my firm hit the same as yours, the guy at the next table?

Ones strokes has to fit all the possible hits neededs in pool and not try to have a one stroke fits all hits mentality.
 
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duckie said:
It is real easy to spot those that don't play 14.1 or 1 pocket.

Your stroke needs to be based what's is needed for the shot. If a firm hit is needed, do it, if a soft hit is needed, do it.

Oh......what's a firm hit? Is my firm hit the same as yours, the guy at the next table?

Ones strokes has to fit all the possible hits neededs in pool and not try to have a one stroke fits all hits mentality.
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Often position can be gained both ways by simply altering the place you hit the cue ball - a little higher or lower. When that's the case I elect to shoot firmer. Takes out any kicks, bad rolls, swerve and so on.

Nice to see you posting outside the aiming forum...never thought I'd see the day.
 
duckie said:
It is real easy to spot those that don't play 14.1 or 1 pocket.

Your stroke needs to be based what's is needed for the shot. If a firm hit is needed, do it, if a soft hit is needed, do it.
Click to expand...


Greg,

It's not just for those 2 games, but I think you know that. You were just making a point & I agree.
 
Pidge said:
Are you a firm hitter or a soft touch specialist? Neither is the right or wrong way to do things, but I'm a firm believer that stroking firm rewards the player more.
Click to expand...

Another reason for hitting firm is that the firmer hit will impress the cute girl watching from the rail. :cool:
 
Most people have 2 or 3 shot speeds. Soft and hard, or slow and fast, with maybe a medium stuck in between. But how much harder does one hit hard than soft? How much softer is soft than hard?

People can easily relate things to numbers. I was taught a speed drill where a lag shot is 1. The second diamond after coming back off the head rail is 2, center table is 3, 4 is on the foot string, and 5 is on the foot rail. You can continue back down the table for 6-9 or whatever, but you're getting to break speeds after 5.

Just doing this about 25-30 times and seeing where you land most often will help determine your "stroke speed" or natural speed when there's no specific target. But this will also help you dial in speed differences by practicing getting on a specific spot. You'll start to feel how much harder 3 is than 2, how much softer 1 is than 2, etc. You can do this drill with just a cb, and later try doing it by hitting a stop shot and sending the ob to a specific spot.
 
NitPicker said:
I was taught a speed drill where a lag shot is 1. The second diamond after coming back off the head rail is 2, center table is 3, 4 is on the foot string, and 5 is on the foot rail. You can continue back down the table for 6-9 or whatever, but you're getting to break speeds after 5.
Click to expand...

I've done the same, but I play straight pool mostly. For me a lag shot is a 3. A 1 is lag minus 4 diamonds.
 
Dan White said:
I've done the same, but I play straight pool mostly. For me a lag shot is a 3. A 1 is lag minus 4 diamonds.
Click to expand...

That makes a lot of sense for the position played in straight pool. Once you have the basic touch, the system can be dialed in very granular and precise.
 
My preferred stroke speed probably has more to do with the table I am playing on, on a Red Label Diamond BB I will be playing many slow speed (or pocket speed, where the object ball falls off the slate, does not hit back of the pocket) shots if I can get my position that way. Ultimately QB position will dictate how hard I hit the shot. On the money ball I will almost always choose soft over firm, especially on a fast 4 1/2" pocket table. If I am playing on a Valley or a GC with big pockets I will probably be more than likely to shoot money ball at firm speed, no concerns of rattling the ball under those conditions. My GCII at home measures 4 3/8", if you hit a less than ideal shot at speed you will pay for it by rattling the ball, this taught me that I make many more shots if I can take a little speed off and still get position.
 
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I avoid rolling the cue ball at JUST ABOUT all costs. Of course there are times when there is just no other option but for the reasons Pidge pointed out in his post -- firmer is better.

There's sort of two ways to skin this cat. The first way is you try to stay as close to center ball as possible and then vary your actually stroke speed depending on the needs of the shot, or you can try to stay as close to your favorite stroke speed as possible by moving around on the cue ball. Like Pidge, I prefer to hit the ball firmer if possible and just slightly vary where I hit the cue ball.

A perfect shot example would be on a straight in shot, say where the balls are separated by about 4 diamonds and you need the cue ball to follow the object ball about 6 inches for position for your next shot. How would you play the shot? I think most amateurs try to roll the cue ball forward for position. I wouldn't normally choose to go that route. Instead, I would shoot a stun through shot (not sure if that's the proper terminology or not) where I use that nice firm stop shot speed but just hit the cue a bit higher than center. The cue ball then drifts forward for position.

Whenever I see someone comfortably shoot this shot I always suspect that they can play a litte.
 
Basement Dweller

The term for letting the cue ball drift forward is called
commonly called "force follow". And yes, if you see someone
execute force follow with any degree of precision you can bet,
or not bet, but the guy can plat some.

Joe
 
Jodacus said:
Basement Dweller

The term for letting the cue ball drift forward is called
commonly called "force follow". And yes, if you see someone
execute force follow with any degree of precision you can bet,
or not bet, but the guy can plat some.

Joe
Click to expand...


No. I'm definitely not referring to force follow. Even most intermediate level players use force follow consistently. I'm referring to a shot where the cue ball is struck firmly, just above center ball, and after contact with the object ball it drifts forward several revolutions, maybe even up to about a foot or so. Players use this instead of rolling the cue ball and when it's done effectively it showcases a player that is real comfortable striking the cue ball with confidence but yet moving the cue ball around delicately at the same time. I really like the shot.
 
Stun Run-through shot as called in snooker.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRybs9jh89k

BasementDweller said:
No. I'm definitely not referring to force follow. Even most intermediate level players use force follow consistently. I'm referring to a shot where the cue ball is struck firmly, just above center ball, and after contact with the object ball it drifts forward several revolutions, maybe even up to about a foot or so. Players use this instead of rolling the cue ball and when it's done effectively it showcases a player that is real comfortable striking the cue ball with confidence but yet moving the cue ball around delicately at the same time. I really like the shot.
Click to expand...
 
Pidge said:
Are you a firm hitter or a soft touch specialist? Neither is the right or wrong way to do things, but I'm a firm believer that stroking firm rewards the player more.

Firstly, when I have a shot where I can hit the ball firm or soft I elect to hit it firm for a few reasons. Most importantly is the table. You don't want a bad roll caused by a speck of chalk or an uneven table to ruin your chances of winning. It happened far too often when I was a kid playing in leagues. I learned to take this out of the equation by hitting shots firmer when I could. Sometimes you just have to slow roll some shots, but often you have a choice.

Secondly, people have a tendency to tighten up when playing slow shots. Any tiny bit of side imparted means swerve comes into play. How many times have you missed a slow roll because the ball veered off and you blamed the table for being uneven? Chances are it could have been swerve.

I think the biggest factor for me is I can hit the cue ball in lots more places and still have the spin on the cue ball upon impact. For example - someone who has a slower stroke speed than me but is faced with the exact same shot of drawing straight back 2ft will have to hit the ball much lower. I would maybe only have to hit a tip and a half low and have the ball punch back (in snooker we would call this a stun screw type shot) whereas the slow stroke guy would have to hit maybe a whole tip lower to get the same CB position. This leaves the possibility of getting too much draw.

A slower stroke also brings decelerating through the ball into play. I see lots of players who like the softly softly approach who jab at the ball, especially when the balls are close.

How do you get a firmer natural stroke speed? Practice, and lots of it. Because you are about to hit the shot firm, doesn't mean you should use your warm up strokes as if you're about to break... Nice and steady on the back stroke, a little pause, and this pause will force you to accelerate through the ball and hit shots firmer.

So, just a little post this time. It isn't really a fundamental as such, its more of a natural characteristic. But try it and see how it goes. It isn't for everyone, I understand this. But maybe, just maybe you can start hitting the balls cleaner.

Happy New Year :-)
Click to expand...

You describe a very simple advanced concept.

And it's right on the money.

JC
 
Since I grew up in this game on straight pool, if anything I suppose I fall into the softer stroke camp. But the reality is you need to have both a soft touch and a good firm stroke to play the shot that's called for at any time.

Not sure I agree with some of the supposed disadvantages of hitting a shot soft. As for decelerating, my experience is the shot that's hit hard is more prone to decel than one hit softly. Take for example when you need to hit a big draw. Many players, in an attempt to apply the speed needed, will "hit at the cue ball" rather than stroke through it. I call this hitting from the back (or start of the through-swing); in golf it's referred to as "hitting from the top". It results in deceleration where it counts - through the cue ball.

I played Dave Hemmah in a the Swanee a few years ago and after our match he asked if I had a straight pool background. I was impressed at this observation and asked how he knew. One of his observations was the speed I hit certain shots. Like hitting a shot softly and not going to a rail to play position on the next ball to an up table corner, rather than doing the typical 9 ball play of going 2 or 3 rails to play the next ball in the same pocket as the previous ball. My style was probably unconventional to the 9 Ball specialist, but us 14.1 guys are quite comfortable playing balls in the foot half to the up table corner pockets at the head end.

One other thing, the pockets tend to be bigger for the shot hit softly.

And one other, if you aren't sending the cue ball to a rail then you can't scratch. ;)

Bottom line is you need both arrows in your quiver. My background probably induces me to a softer style that favors patterns with less cue ball movement, but you gotta have both to call on when needed. :thumbup:
 
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BasementDweller said:
No. I'm definitely not referring to force follow. Even most intermediate level players use force follow consistently. I'm referring to a shot where the cue ball is struck firmly, just above center ball, and after contact with the object ball it drifts forward several revolutions, maybe even up to about a foot or so. Players use this instead of rolling the cue ball and when it's done effectively it showcases a player that is real comfortable striking the cue ball with confidence but yet moving the cue ball around delicately at the same time. I really like the shot.
Click to expand...
In snooker its called a stun run through. In pool I've heard it called a stop follow shot where the cue ball on a straight in is hit firm but only follows anywhere from a few inches to 2ft. I've also heard it called a punch follow.
 
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