Fusco's The Spot (smoking allowed - nasty)

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Again this is a personal choice to drink, eat poorly, smoke or whatever. Not something that should be decided at the expense of our choices.

Most of the legislation passed was not to control what people could do but to give them information so they can make informed choices. If they are permitted to lie on labels then where do you go from there and that was the problem.

I hope you don't enjoy being lied to, I know I don't. If I see a label that says it contains X amount of sodium I want to know it is correct. You know a product like Pam says on their label that it has zero calories.

People spray it all over stuff thinking it has no calories when it is exactly the same as butter. One spray is so little that if you call it a serving size it is low enough to call it zero according to regulations. Of course we know people will saturate what ever they stray it on, not use one spray.

They just don't know it so it still is going on today, lying to the public and getting away with it. Want to make the calories in a can of soda 40% lower, just put in small print on the back of the can a smaller serving size.
Than in big letters on the front write 40% lower in calories.
 
He is still at it...

There is no reasoning with terrorists, no matter what their cause. Try reasoning with the treehuggers, the gun enthusiasts or their counterparts, PETA, its all the same thing.

In this case though, there is freedom, freedom to partake in a place that allows smoking, or to not go there. No one is arm twisting, well there is one guy just happens to be none of his concern.

We all make choices, I choose to walk 4 miles at night. Now many things can happen to me, a car can hit me, a car driven by someone that is impaired, or some kid texting. But its my choice to go walking even though I could be harmed. If I went to Fuscos that to would be MY choice, out of respect for the RULES, and the LAW, I would realize he allows smoking. If it was overwhelming, I may leave or at a minimum step outside. Funny, the same thing the anti-smoker wants a smoker to do, he doesn't want to do. Funny how things are good for someone else to do, but not for everyone.

JV
 
I'm glad you brought this up because its not an apples to apples comparison.

The establishment is not discriminating against non-smokers. Anyone can enter and anyone can leave. A person can completely exercise their free will.

In the case of refusing service to blacks or jews we're talking about discriminatory practices that single out and refuse service based on skin color or some kind of affiliation. Whereas a smoking bar allows the individual to decide for themselves what they want to be subject to.

So in your example the free will of black and jews are stifled and in my example the non-smoker has all the freedom in the world to enter or not. They can even go so far as to create their own bar with their own policies allowing smokers to enter or leave.

I'll even take it a step further for the sake of the argument. Even though say a Grocery store is a privately owned business I'll advocate for places like that to be smoke free. Reason being is that those kind of establishments are subject to minors entering against their own free will. We can't stop mommy or daddy from taking little junior into the grocery store that allows smoking. So I can see the value in protecting the health of a minor who cannot exercise their own free will or isn't mature enough to be educated on the harmful effects of smoking...or kids with bad parents.

But we're talking about 21 and over, adult only establishments that don't allow minors. Perhaps if the bar allowed minors until say 6pm it could be a non-smoking bar during the day until it was strictly adult only admittance. A very reasonable and fair compromise.

There should be compromise and as you put it, the line should be drawn....at an adult only establishment that does not allow minors.
That is true but it is not what you are discussing. You are discussing not the rights of the black or Jew but the rights of the business owner to exercise their rights and how far can they extend.

They don't have infinite rights just because they own a business or property. These right also change over time and what was yesterday may not be tomorrow. That is just how it is. People can be real delusional when it come to their rights and what they believe.

I think it is fun to listen to right wing radio, it is better then SNL. To hear what some of these people, (And I don't think they are lying) believe is really insane. Just this week all the discussion was Obamas tan suit. I swear to god they actually believe he is a member of Isis and the tan suit was a secret code to Isis sleeper cells in the US he controls.
 
Green to you.


He is still at it...

There is no reasoning with terrorists, no matter what their cause. Try reasoning with the treehuggers, the gun enthusiasts or their counterparts, PETA, its all the same thing.

In this case though, there is freedom, freedom to partake in a place that allows smoking, or to not go there. No one is arm twisting, well there is one guy just happens to be none of his concern.

We all make choices, I choose to walk 4 miles at night. Now many things can happen to me, a car can hit me, a car driven by someone that is impaired, or some kid texting. But its my choice to go walking even though I could be harmed. If I went to Fuscos that to would be MY choice, out of respect for the RULES, and the LAW, I would realize he allows smoking. If it was overwhelming, I may leave or at a minimum step outside. Funny, the same thing the anti-smoker wants a smoker to do, he doesn't want to do. Funny how things are good for someone else to do, but not for everyone.

JV
 
We'll know at some point if they are, and if they are, whether or not they are meeting their exemption obligations.

I guess I'm missing something since I haven't read every post in this thread but is there some question about it's "private club" status?

If it's a private club and a person has to join to get in then that person should know when he joins what things are allowed and what things are not allowed. Personally, I would not join a club that allowed smoking and then complain about the smoke but that's just me. I don't smoke and stay away from anyplace that allows it but I enjoy gambling on pool and might go in a room that allowed smoking for a game but most likely I wouldn't.

P.S. If you are the "poolmouse" that joined 1Pocket.org. last week don't waste your time starting this same thread over there. It'll be quickly moved to the Members forum where nobody will see it.

ONB
 
Again this is a personal choice to drink, eat poorly, smoke or whatever. Not something that should be decided at the expense of our choices.


Unless your choice poses health risks to others. Exceptions are granted to ease the transition. It's discussions like this that raise awareness and change. ;)
 
Mousey,

Your best bet? You want to make a change?
Take it to Harrisburg ( thats our capitol b.t.w., 387 miles west on the turnpike ) if its the law you dont like, which it is.
Get a petition with a couple thousand signatures and Go lobby it to the people who can make those changes , take the podium like they have for 200 years and "philly"buster away.

You're making all kinds of friends this week aint ya!
Welcome to pencilveiniya.

Ok, for the last time, tronpocket signing off......for good .
Please dont ask me anymore questions. I wont answer them.
Its 330 on a holiday, i got a room full of members, 17 tables going and have a job to do.
Thank you for your discussion, good day sir


Ps. Welcome to the discussion of the week c.j.! Your idea wouldnt work here, but we are going to put some large (and expensive) rooftop exhaust units in for evacuating the smoke on busy nights. See. ..we do care!


Mr Wilson, i think this can now be moved to the NPR section.

Happy holidays!
 
Mousey,

Your best bet? You want to make a change?
Take it to Harrisburg ( thats our capitol b.t.w., 387 miles west on the turnpike ) if its the law you dont like, which it is.
Get a petition with a couple thousand signatures and Go lobby it to the people who can make those changes , take the podium like they have for 200 years and "philly"buster away.

You're making all kinds of friends this week aint ya!
Welcome to pencilveiniya.

Ok, for the last time, tronpocket signing off......for good .
Please dont ask me anymore questions. I wont answer them.
Its 330 on a holiday, i got a room full of members, 17 tables going and have a job to do.
Thank you for your discussion, good day sir


Ps. Welcome to the discussion of the week c.j.! Your idea wouldnt work here, but we are going to put some large (and expensive) rooftop exhaust units in for evacuating the smoke on busy nights. See. ..we do care!


Mr Wilson, i think this can now be moved to the NPR section.

Happy holidays!
You might not really want to antagonize him. He may very well have something with you not really going by the letter of the law as far as being a private club.

A lot of things are overlooked but when brought to light have to be investigated. That is how most code violations are found. Few cities have enough officers to go trouble shooting, they respond to complaints.

In fact they have to, they can't ignore a complaint it even if they want to.
As silly as it may sound, this thread could result in your boss having real trouble. You are not the owner and I would advise you to keep your mouth shut and just let this thread die. It has no upside for you. You do realize that, no one once under a microscope is doing everything right. You want to under all circumstances stay out from under the microscope if you can help it.

I used to own a bar with a 24 hour license, I made a fortune. Based on one complaint against one beach side bar we all lost our late night licenses and had to begin closing at 2 am. One place owned by Joe Namath went out of business, they could not survive without the late night business. We hired the same lawyer trying to save our licenses but it was a waste of time. The good times were over.
My advice, stay under the radar, keep your mouth shut and forget about this thread.
 
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I guess I'm missing something since I haven't read every post in this thread but is there some question about it's "private club" status?


It's more a question of whether Fusco's The Spot is adhering to the Clean Indoor Air Act exemption rules. If they are, they should have no problem producing 10+ years worth of monthly meeting minutes including all board discussions and votes. :)
 
You might not really want to antagonize him. He may very well have something with you not really going by the letter of the law as far as being a private club.

A lot of things are overlooked but when brought to light have to be investigated. That is how most code violations are found. Few cities have enough officers to go trouble shooting, they respond to complaints.

In fact they have to, they can't ignore a complaint it even if they want to.
As silly as it may sound, this thread could result in your boss having real trouble. You are not the owner and I would advise you to keep your mouth shut and just let this thread die. It has no upside for you. You do realize that, no one once under a microscope is doing everything right. You want to under all circumstances stay out from under the microscope if you can help it.

I used to own a bar with a 24 hour license, I made a fortune. Based on one complaint against one beach side bar we all lost our late night licenses and had to begin closing at 2 am. One place owned by Joe Namath went out of business, they could not survive without the late night business. We hired the same lawyer trying to save our licenses but it was a waste of time. The good times were over.
My advice, stay under the radar, keep your mouth shut and forget about this thread.


Tronpocket, you should know by now that this thread is about doing the right thing. :)
 
It's more a question of whether Fusco's The Spot is adhering to the Clean Indoor Air Act exemption rules. If they are, they should have no problem producing 10+ years worth of monthly meeting minutes including all board discussions and votes. :)

If you read Orwell's 1984.....I think I know which side you'll be cheering for.
:yeah:
 
Don,

I think that the readers of this thread get your point. Please. Enough. Let's move on.
 
No worries here, our lawyer gets a good penny to make sure we are in complience with the law. If we were'nt , we would be the first to know, Thanks again.
 
That is true but it is not what you are discussing. You are discussing not the rights of the black or Jew but the rights of the business owner to exercise their rights and how far can they extend.

They don't have infinite rights just because they own a business or property. These right also change over time and what was yesterday may not be tomorrow. That is just how it is. People can be real delusional when it come to their rights and what they believe.

I think it is fun to listen to right wing radio, it is better then SNL. To hear what some of these people, (And I don't think they are lying) believe is really insane. Just this week all the discussion was Obamas tan suit. I swear to god they actually believe he is a member of Isis and the tan suit was a secret code to Isis sleeper cells in the US he controls.
I'm discussing the limits as well and provided an example of where the line should be drawn.

That is with consideration for the rights of minors who cannot exercise free will over the rights of the property owner. So I'm very specifically addressing the rights of everyone and not just the bar owner.

I don't know how you can call that delusional. I'm clearly stating there is compromise.
 
Unless your choice poses health risks to others. Exceptions are granted to ease the transition. It's discussions like this that raise awareness and change. ;)
It doesn't pose a health risk to you unless YOU CHOOSE to put yourself right next to me. No one is forcing you to go where smokers go. Are you an addict? Can you not control yourself?

Again, we are not responsible for your inability to make good decisions for yourself.

Why can't you be responsible for you and I'll be responsible for me?

Why do you insist on having control over everyone because you can't control yourself?
 
Don,

I think that the readers of this thread get your point. Please. Enough. Let's move on.


Mkbtank, I'm guessing you're right, unfortunately Fusco's The Spot (the "private club" or its designated representative) doesn't seem to take this issue seriously.

I suppose it's no big deal for a salaried employee who can walk away if this gets escalated. That's too bad.
 
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