What am I missing here? The Galveston World Classic is billing itself as a $1,000,000 tournament but if you go to the payouts page the payouts all total up to only $518,400 and NONE of it is added money. The only thing in the prize fund is entry fees from the players. And they are expecting more players than reality suggests can occur. These payouts could go WAY down. Are the players really sucker enough to go for this? Pay their own way and then play for nothing except their own money? None of this is mentioned on the website. None of the payouts are guaranteed unless the fields are filled. And they keep harping on this being a million dollar tournament. What million dollars? Where? Where is the press on this? Why are none of the negatives being mentioned? The chat room at TWC was asked how many players are signed up (so you could figure the real monies) and they replied that they do not divulge this information. Why not? This smells real bad.
Galveston World Classic Payouts do not add up
- Thread starter Carolina Blue
- Start date
Yes you did miss something. 1) Not all events are shown on the payout page, 2) not all field sizes are shown on the payout page. They put the payout page up to give a representation of the payouts. The payouts shown are minimum payout for the field size shown.
If you think it smells bad then don't go. When it does go off and it is a success you will probably be kicking yourself.
BVal
The big question is where is the added money? The US Open adds $100,000 over and above the entry fee amounts. All the big tournaments do add sponsor money to the prize funds. When these folks were at the amateur nationals in Las Vegas they talked about how oil companies and tv companies and others were adding money. Where is it? Why is it not mentioned? Why are there no sponsors listed on the sponsor page of their website?
The danger here is what happened to Allen Hopkins and his million-dollar event that turned into a $30,000 event when only a handful of his expected 500 players showed up. If these guys want to clear the air they should post their paid entry figures now. And admit there is NO added money. Otherwise, this thing is just more smoke and mirrors. Exactly what we don't need. Cut the hoopla and open up the information flow.
The danger here is what happened to Allen Hopkins and his million-dollar event that turned into a $30,000 event when only a handful of his expected 500 players showed up. If these guys want to clear the air they should post their paid entry figures now. And admit there is NO added money. Otherwise, this thing is just more smoke and mirrors. Exactly what we don't need. Cut the hoopla and open up the information flow.
I posted this in another thread on this topic:
Pro:
10-ball: $174,377.60
1-Pocket: $78,248.00
8-Ball Open: $94,120.00
Women's 9-ball: $53,520.00
$400,265.60
Then we have these tournaments:
Teams 8-ball: Entry $500/team; $50,000 1st place
Amateur 9-ball: Entry $200; $10,000 1st place
Women's Team 8-ball: Entry $300;
WheelChair 8-ball: Entry $100; $5000 1st place
Women's 8-ball Amateur: Entry $200; $5000 1st place
8-ball Amateur Open: Entry $200; $10,000 1st place
Scotch Doubles: Entry $200;
The total payouts for all these other tournaments are not listed, but easily could push the total payout over $1 million.
Pro:
10-ball: $174,377.60
1-Pocket: $78,248.00
8-Ball Open: $94,120.00
Women's 9-ball: $53,520.00
$400,265.60
Then we have these tournaments:
Teams 8-ball: Entry $500/team; $50,000 1st place
Amateur 9-ball: Entry $200; $10,000 1st place
Women's Team 8-ball: Entry $300;
WheelChair 8-ball: Entry $100; $5000 1st place
Women's 8-ball Amateur: Entry $200; $5000 1st place
8-ball Amateur Open: Entry $200; $10,000 1st place
Scotch Doubles: Entry $200;
The total payouts for all these other tournaments are not listed, but easily could push the total payout over $1 million.
Did they mention added money specifically? They are guaranteeing the payout to the top of the field. They have indicated that as the fields become bigger and cover the top payout then some of the guaranteed money may be added. Again the payouts listed are "indicative of the MINIMUM PAYOUT". In other words if only 4 people show up and compete they will still payout what they "promise". If they get fields of say 256 and the entries cover what was guaranteed they will add money. If your question is how much under "EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE" then I don't know.
But where is the added money. These promoters have hired people that this won't be their first rodeo. One of the first things on an ad or poster for an upcoming event is the added money in BIG LETTERS. That is what players want to see. Second they want to know about how much the pay offs will be for a realistic turnout, not some pie in the sky turnout that will never happen for a first tournament. To me it looks like they don't care how many pros they get...they want amatuers. Johnnyt
Carolina Blue...Just for the record, Hopkins "million-dollar event" last year, drew 15 players, @ $5K each...that's a $75,000 event, not $30K. Allen did not expect 500 players to show up. His stated goal was 200 players @ $5K each. That's where the $1,000,000 was coming from...only 15 showed up, and he did not repeat the tournament this year.
There have been LOTS of questions about the Galveston event, and for the information you desire, they choose not to share that (I don't know why). That said, many people will still go and play, and many will stay home (and see what happens the first year). The promoters are not looking for a one-time event, of this magnitude, so I'm betting that they'll pay out a LOT of money this year.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
There have been LOTS of questions about the Galveston event, and for the information you desire, they choose not to share that (I don't know why). That said, many people will still go and play, and many will stay home (and see what happens the first year). The promoters are not looking for a one-time event, of this magnitude, so I'm betting that they'll pay out a LOT of money this year.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I would love to go to this event. I unfortunately can't. I don't see any big problems and I don't see how any player could be ripped off. But ya know what.............. Fu%^ it.................DON'T GO!
Johnnyt...That's EXACTLY what they want! The amateur players will be the ones who drive this event...for the promoters, the sponsors, the hotels and restaurants, etc. Will they get a large crowd of amateur players? That remains to be seen! I'm betting the pros will be there in droves!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
What's the big deal about added money? I guess I'm a bit naive about this, as I mostly gamble instead of playing tournaments, and I would have no chance of winning any tournament other than the local weekly room event.
So when gambling, its either me or you. We are not getting added money by the rail watching us play.
When you sit down at a casino at a poker table for a live game, its your money vs the money of a handful of other people. The casino does not add money.
When you sit down at a casino for a poker tournament (and I've never done this), but from what I've been told, the WSOP actually takes about a 1/4th of the entry money.
In all the above cases, either heads up gambling, live action poker game, or poker tournament, it COSTS money for the player to even come to the table; (pool table time, rake in live poker, and entry fee take out in poker tournaments).
Many of the pool tournament players also do these 3 activities. So why does a pool tournament need to have added money?
I've been around pool a long time, so I'm kind of playing devils advocate here. But I'm sincere in my question. Why is it a big deal to pool players for added money, but when they play poker tourneys it does not matter?
So when gambling, its either me or you. We are not getting added money by the rail watching us play.
When you sit down at a casino at a poker table for a live game, its your money vs the money of a handful of other people. The casino does not add money.
When you sit down at a casino for a poker tournament (and I've never done this), but from what I've been told, the WSOP actually takes about a 1/4th of the entry money.
In all the above cases, either heads up gambling, live action poker game, or poker tournament, it COSTS money for the player to even come to the table; (pool table time, rake in live poker, and entry fee take out in poker tournaments).
Many of the pool tournament players also do these 3 activities. So why does a pool tournament need to have added money?
I've been around pool a long time, so I'm kind of playing devils advocate here. But I'm sincere in my question. Why is it a big deal to pool players for added money, but when they play poker tourneys it does not matter?
I'm in
I've looked at the Taylor Road information from very early on. I see that they leased Moody Gardens well in advance and have met their obligations to Diamond for the tables. That and the other dollars they have put out thus far aren't pocket change. I also see that they have some revenue streams coming in.
Come October I think there are going to be two groups of people. The people that got involved with Galveston and those kicking their own butts because they didn't get involved. Money to be won and I don't think the pick'ns will ever be any easier than this first event!
Hu
I've looked at the Taylor Road information from very early on. I see that they leased Moody Gardens well in advance and have met their obligations to Diamond for the tables. That and the other dollars they have put out thus far aren't pocket change. I also see that they have some revenue streams coming in.
Come October I think there are going to be two groups of people. The people that got involved with Galveston and those kicking their own butts because they didn't get involved. Money to be won and I don't think the pick'ns will ever be any easier than this first event!
Hu
I'm not a pro but I'll take a stab at what I've gathered from hearing past conversations between pro players.
I believe the mentality is that its frustrating to the pro players that pool tournaments rely on payouts off the backs of the players instead of sponsors. Its more of a gripe with "the system" than particular tournament promoters.
There isn't very much money in pool and if pool tournaments are paying out only what they bring in from entry fees, there isn't anymore money being put into the pool world, its only being shuffled from one player to another.
Most players and fans would love to see bigger payouts and more respect like other pro sports. Other pro sports pay tournament winnings (high dollar winnings) from sponsors. Pool is paying (low dollar amounts) off the backs of other players.
Ultimately, "added money" means more money to be had. As a working stiff, if I had two different job offers doing the exact same thing, I'm generally going to go with the company that offers me the most money (providing other needs like medical insurance & vacation time is in line with the competing employer).
I was wondering the same thing. This thread has been up way too long for him not to have jumped in with both feet.
I hope he's OK.
Lou Figueroa
concerned
I just spotted this thread but I see that there are plenty of level-headed people that now know the score and it doesn't need repeating by me.
Besides it seems I have my own concerned trolls and stalkers.
GO GALVESTON!
JoeyA
Nice post!!!
The fact is that pool players are spoiled little brats that have their hands out with the "give me, give me" attitude. Poker players realize that it takes money to make money. Pool players want to make a big score with little risk, and in most cases they have very little to risk.
This is the true state of pool in America today. Actually it resembles modern American mentality of "what can I get for doing a little of nothing". Everyone want a free lunch but no one wants to pay for it.
In most cases pro players don't want to do autographs or conversate with fans. They just want the money and to be left alone. They won't do the leg work to give pool the reputation it needs and build a fan base by treating those fans with the respect to make them want to attend more events, spend more time on the table at their local room, and buy more pool products to make the sport thrive.
The fact is that pool players are spoiled little brats that have their hands out with the "give me, give me" attitude. Poker players realize that it takes money to make money. Pool players want to make a big score with little risk, and in most cases they have very little to risk.
This is the true state of pool in America today. Actually it resembles modern American mentality of "what can I get for doing a little of nothing". Everyone want a free lunch but no one wants to pay for it.
In most cases pro players don't want to do autographs or conversate with fans. They just want the money and to be left alone. They won't do the leg work to give pool the reputation it needs and build a fan base by treating those fans with the respect to make them want to attend more events, spend more time on the table at their local room, and buy more pool products to make the sport thrive.