gambling and robbing an intoxicated person-moral values-rationalizations

Jim Kuykendall

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If the guy dropped his wallet, would it be ok to pick it up and keep it? After all, if he wasn't drunk, he wouldn't have dropped it. Playing someone for money when you know they are impaired is stealing. I wonder how pool got such a black eye.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
If it's the same guy I'm thinking of, I played him once $100 a game One Hole, EVEN, and he played good. I did win a few dollars that night (five or six hun), but he was not drunk, although he had a few beers while we played. I'm not so sure he plays that bad when drinking. He never got out of line with me. A little loud sometimes but nothing I would call abusive. If he had, I would have just quit. But that's just me.
 

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
Weird nobody seems to be seeing it this way...

You have to account for his wealth when talking about whether it's wrong to hustle a drunk who likes to gamble.

Is it wrong to take thousands from a guy who only has thousands, leaving him to sleep in his car and unable to support himself or his family? Sure... even if he seems to be begging for it by being a loudmouth while drunk.

But are you really harming a rich guy when you bust him for thousands and he has hundreds of thousands? That's the equivalent of taking 200 bucks from the guy with a 5k bankroll.

Maybe it seems like a rationalization, but I think spending money and being in the spotlight is part of how this player enjoys his alcohol. He'd rather donate the money than not be in action at all.
 

pwd72s

recreational banger
Silver Member
Although I would not do it, I also have a limited amount of sympathy for the victim. Also I think Vegas would disagree with you. They make a point to get the suckers drunk.

Isn't that the truth...a buddy talked me into going to Reno on my 21st birthday weekend. I had a long broke drive home to think about it. I decided that winners didn't buy all those lavish furnishings, or pay the salaries of those cute babes who kept bringing me "free" drinks.
 

gunzby

My light saber is LD
Silver Member
Sounds like he's the one who started up woofing and noise around him so I can't say he wasn't asking for it. He just let his mouth get ahead of his sense and he paid for it.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
There is a huge difference between hustling a drunk and betting with one. Anyone that suckers a drunk is pretty low. Anyone that allows a drunk to "go off" is just beneficiary of good fortune because the drunk is going to go off to somebody and it might as well be me.

I have been on the other end of it where I was the drunk and I lost $2000 from inserting my foot right into my mouth and challenging one of the best players in America to play even one pocket. The kicker was that I completely mistook him for someone else who I felt couldn't beat me playing one hole no matter how wasted I was. ( I am sure I was wrong about that as well.)

It is sad though to see people taking a drunk off like vultures and jackals.

Anyway if he is throwing away dollars and all you have to do is fade "the show" then it's his money. Probably illegally made money anyway.

I wonder about the part where you said that someone flipped him quarters for large amounts????? You don't have to win that bet with anyone drunk or not.

I don't think that flipping quarters is taking advanage of anyone drunk or not. Robbing them on the table when they have NO CHANCE to win is another thing. Personally I have never felt good about playing someone who had no chance whatsoever to win but I have accepted the gift and spent the money on something nice.
 

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
Maybe it seems like a rationalization, but I think spending money and being in the spotlight is part of how this player enjoys his alcohol. He'd rather donate the money than not be in action at all.

Years ago, a guy walked into our room and wanted to play. I beat him for some change. Had to leave to keep an important appointment. When I returned he was playing another guy who had him stuck hundreds. This guy kept going to the ATM for a couple of days. Don't know how much he wound up losing. Before he left, he told us he played in an internationally known rock band doing a show in Rochester. He loved the game and would rather give some money away playing pool than putting it up his nose:eek:. I liked that guy!

Lyn
 

vagabond

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JB Cases;1766455 I wonder about the part where you said that someone flipped him quarters for large amounts????? You don't have to win that bet with anyone drunk or not. I don't think that flipping quarters is taking advanage of anyone drunk or not. [/QUOTE said:
He flipped the quarters at the very begining and at that time he did not appear to be drunk and I did not think flipping coins equates to taking advantage.In the begining it was amusing to me.But later when I saw him staggering and falling on the next table,sleeping when he was supposed to shoot ,I then started feeling sorry for him. Many years ago at derby city I played a girl some very cheap one pocket. After she lost the first game she started crying.After seeing a girl cry I did not feel like shooting and gave the set and money away.May be I am a sucker.

His income comes from the legitimate source.He has thriving business.

Many years ago there used to be a guy who had ' Asphalt ' business in charolette,NC who used to come to Mothers and used to give away money.But that Asphalt guy did not have alcohol problem and he used to get huge spots from others.This guy in las vegas is in 'Concrete ' business.May be these asphalt and concrete guys make lot of money and are very generous people.
 
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houmatroy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Many years ago there used to be a guy who had ' Asphalt ' business in charolette,NC who used to come to Mothers and used to give away money.But that Asphalt guy did not have alcohol problem and he used to get huge spots from others.This guy in las vegas is in 'Concrete ' business.May be these asphalt and concrete guys make lot of money and are very generous people.[/QUOTE]



If the guy in Charolette was in the asphalt business than there's a 99% chance that he's a gypsy...the asphalt thing is their gig...& I am friends with several of them & they all love to gamble...the way they do their business is borderline legit...& If you can get some of their money..great..cuz they always working angles to try n get yours.
 

APA Gene

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If it is a friend who is inebriated I will play but won't take their money. I usually don't play drunks otherwise. They tend to act like jerks and I just don't want to deal with them.
 

JustPlay

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A craps table, video poker machine, slot machine, roulette or blackjack table would have no problems what-so-ever taking a drunks money. All of which I am sure he donates to, weather drunk or sober. And I am sure he is happy doing it. So why not let him donate to an actual person.

It is most likely that this person realizes what he has done the night before in the pool room or casino, because he has done this MANY times before and has been told this pretty much everytime he has "gone off" by friends or people he knows. Its not like he is being rolled in the parking lot for his bread. So he know what he does, he makes enough money to afford what he does, so leave him alone or if you really feel bad for him, take him to rehab! Or even better, take his money and give it back to him the next day.
 

catpool9

"Rack Um"/ Rusty Lock
Silver Member
Many years ago there used to be a guy who had ' Asphalt ' business in charolette,NC who used to come to Mothers and used to give away money.But that Asphalt guy did not have alcohol problem and he used to get huge spots from others.This guy in las vegas is in 'Concrete ' business.May be these asphalt and concrete guys make lot of money and are very generous people.



If the guy in Charolette was in the asphalt business than there's a 99% chance that he's a gypsy...the asphalt thing is their gig...& I am friends with several of them & they all love to gamble...the way they do their business is borderline legit...& If you can get some of their money..great..cuz they always working angles to try n get yours.[/QUOTE]



Yep there's a family of Gypsy's in Texarkana,Ar./Tx. and they too are in the asphalt business, they like to get loud, drink it up, play poker, pool, flip quarters, throw coins at the spot,go to the casino's, anything that is a gamble!.........


but all in all they are very nice people!




David Harcrow
 

fcee06

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is an interesting question. I dont think you can put morals into gambling imo. Sure you can be gentlemen about it only if you are both gentlemen. It sounds like the drunk guy isnt much of a gentleman. When you make a bet you make a bet. He knew he had been drinking when he negotiated that spot and game. He was responsible for the money he lost. Thats when his so called followers or friends should have pulled him aside and talked to him. I mean who feels morally wrong when you have a road player rolls thru town and gives the top player in town a radiculous spot and gets hijacked? Not a person in that room would feel bad about taking that cash. A 5 year old is innocent and defenseless, a drunk person got that way on his own accord. I know tons of men that play better when they are drunk. I hate that it shook you up like that bud, hes a grown man with deep pockets that got into a bad game. Again, this is just my humble opinion.

Big Frank
 

Alex Kanapilly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
;)
The incident I saw yesterday shook me up and I left the place while the drama was still going on. I was saddend to see an intoxicated man taken advantage of. I am not mentioning the name of this player and many regulars to the cue club in Las Vegas know the name of this individual. He is a rich man and a very strong player both in one pocket and 9 ball and usually others negotiate with him for spot.He says that money is nothing for him and it is only 00000s to him.After 2 weeks he returned to the pool room and his presence was immediately made known by his loud utterences on top of his voice.he started with his usual shouts of profanity including telling the people to s.. his....d etc.He had 4 men and one women accompany and I later found out that he met them in a local bar and brought them with him. I do not think that he knows that they are gangsters.In the begining it was amusing to listen to his utterances on top of his voice with now and then roaring like a Lion, howling like a keyote etc.The show began and the people started gathering around the table 7 & 8.There were nearly 25 sweaters around.Everybody knows it is a pay day to everybody and some will go home with thousands of $.There was a pool league tournament was also going on there that time. There was lot of woofing and lots of hundred dollar bills thrown on the table and lots of debates,arguments between the challengers and this rich man.The people that came in with this rich man were west side gangsters ' Bloods ' and except I and my friend no one in the room knows that those guys are ' Bloods'. One guy entered into flipping the coin contest with the rich man and this guy quickly won three flips in a row for huge amount and then left the place to return later.After 2-3 hours woofing,profanity finally one guy matched uo to play one pocket game race to three.The rich man gave the guy a spot 10-7.The rich man was staggering and few times fell on the next table.several time when it was his turn to shoot he left the cue on the table stands there leaning on the table and sleeps for 30 seconds to a minute and then wakes up and shoots .He then asks the rail for side bets of 1000 $.The story goes on.I could not take it and left the place.


IN MY OPINION ,taking the money from totally intoxicated person is like having sex with a 5 year old child or with a dead person.It is wrong.
I also BELIEVE that gambling with a minor can and will be construed as 'contributing to the delinquency of a minor'.It is wrong.:angry:

Vagabond,

I think I met you at the cueclub when something like this was happening a few months back. I'm guessing you're talking about the same guy. I made a few bucks that night betting on my friend Neil who was playing this guy. While I applaud your moral convictions, this guy isn't just some poor sap that happened to get drunk then get fleeced, he makes a routine out of this kind of thing I think. Also, I don't know how the guy acts when he's not drunk, but he's a real jerk when he is. So, I guess I'd have to say that in this case, I don't feel bad about it.

Does he ever play when he's not lit up? Based on what I saw, he was pretty damn strong even when he was wasted. He beat Neil one game even up and Niel was playing very good that day.

PS... look at your sig line
 

1on1pooltournys

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Many years ago there used to be a guy who had ' Asphalt ' business in charolette,NC who used to come to Mothers and used to give away money.But that Asphalt guy did not have alcohol problem and he used to get huge spots from others.This guy in las vegas is in 'Concrete ' business.May be these asphalt and concrete guys make lot of money and are very generous people.

This sounds like Jeff...? I beat him out of 10k when I was about 18. He still gambles, but not like he used to. He was a great guy to play. Mothers was really pumping with action bout then. Best place I've seen all over the country.

As far as the drunk, in my opinion the only tragedy that took place was you not getting a piece of the action. Drunks are going to go off to somebody, might as well be you. How do you think the casinos feel after they pick them off by the hundreds every weekend?
 

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
Hey justplay,

Are you back in Cleveland? Haven't seen you at Suncoast in a long time. If you're still in fantasyland let me know where. I'm back there for most of May.

Lyn
 

memikey

Never Has Been
Silver Member
Hard to resisit taking a little of his money if he is the one doing the very insistent and loud challenging but honestly think I would try to steer clear of him when he's in that state. Lots of potential for getting into a scrape with someone else in and around a feeding frenzy like that.

Certainly couldn't condone anyone going looking for a drunk to rob if unlike this guy he was just quietly getting wasted and minding his own business.

Vagabond.......it's not completely clear from the opening post whether or not some of the Gangsters/Bloods participated in robbing him on the table or whether they were perhaps just enjoying his hospitality drinks-wise as a sort of continuation from the last bar where he met them......and to be honest I'm not sure what the relevance of them being Gangsters/Bloods is to this subject anyway?

If the guy had any real friends they would have tried to stop this.
 
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