That's right. The notion that they do it because they have to, but don't really like doing it, is pure melodramatic hogwash, plain and simple.
Gambling vs. playing better players vs. practice
- Thread starter lastminutepanic
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That's right. The notion that they do it because they have to, but don't really like doing it, is pure melodramatic hogwash, plain and simple.
Tournament play = gambling (just with better odds and with more people)
Playing league doesn't come close. I don't even think league play makes you better...but there are already a lot of threads about leagues.
Sure, you can experience lots of pressure by playing leagues. You can get the pressure by playing with your friends too. But win or lose, you still have a bed to go home to. You still have food for breakfast. When you're playing for a bed or food or gas to get home...the pressure increases. Now, it's not just, "I want to win." It becomes, "I NEED to win."
Correlation vs. causation.
Philippines: Causation. They play pool in the Philippines. That's what they do. They play baseball in Puerto Rico. That's why so many good pool players come from the Philippines...and so many good baseball players come from Puerto Rico.
Coffee in the morning: Neither. There's no overwhelming difference in coffee drinkers vs. non-coffee drinkers.
Right handed: I don't know. It seems to me as if there is a surprisingly high percentage of top level lefties. It's already proven that left brains operate a little differently from right brains. Maybe this is evidence that right-brained people are better pool players.
Gambling: Causation. You can probably count on one hand how many pros aren't gambling these days. The vast majority are gamblers. You don't have to be a pro to be a gambler, but you almost certainly must be a gambler to be a pro. The numbers are proof enough.
Tournament play = gambling, yes but at a very low level. There is no risk of "going overboard," or "developing a habit" of gambling with tournaments. And like you said, better odds, so it is more worth the investment.
Correlation/Causation:
I think you missed the point with the Phillipines. Puerto Rico analogy. The CAUSE of the increased skill coming from those locations is the PRACTICES employed in those regions, not the correlation of the address and the player! You are saying that "going to the Phillipines" will make you a better player, or move you toward Alcano/Orcullo/Reyes skill level. Now I know you don't think that, but that would be causation.
"Pro's" and gambling:
Now if you are saying that gambling CAUSES you to become a pro, I think we can find some real suckers in our area that disprove that. But if you are saying that "being a pro" CAUSES you to gamble, I would most likely agree with you.
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All of the Pros gamble, what does that tell you.
Most all of the Pros are staked, whats that tell you!
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If these players would get a real job they wouldn't have so much pressure on them. Also 9 out of 10 times they are being staked since they don't have any money to begin with.
We all make choices in life and people who depend on gambling at pool to support themselves (with a few exceptions) have made a bad choice.
I use to gamble a little and play tournaments. I feel tournaments are tougher simply because if you make a few to many mistakes you are out of a tournament. As long as you have money you can always "reload" and keep playing.
My advise gamble around your own speed +- a ball speed and play tournaments. Loosing to players alot better than you will only hurt your game not make it better. You can play in tournaments and play these better players for only the entry fee into the tournament.
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I agree. The ability to play under pressure is huge. Learning to play under the pressure of possibly losing more money than you care to lose builds your inner stone cold killer. I gotta learn myself.
For the most part, I agree. But this thread is not about life choices. It's about playing better.
What's the best way to play great pool? Do what the pros do. Quit your job. Live in the poolroom. Don't stop playing. If you're not in a tournament, you better be gambling. If there's nobody to gamble, then you practice: play the ghost or do drills or practice the tough shots. Play everyone. Learn to outrun the nuts...now you can start calling yourself a pool player. Nobody said it was glamorous. Nobody even said it was smart. But if you want to be a champion, gambling is part of the life.
That they're playing with someone else's money?
There is a host of reasons why a pro would play with someone elses money. Risk would be less, obviously. Less pressure on the pro if he's not fronting his own cash.
Convenience. Let somone else do the leg work.
Even safety, I suppose, in some places.
Tournament pressure and gambling pressure are 2 different things but it's good to be used to both of them I think. Whether you are broke or not there is still pressure from a gambling match. I feel plenty of pressure from it even though I'm not broke.
Gambling
Having money on a game certainly does make a difference. My $10 game is better than my beer game. Is it the answer to playing great? Hell no! You gotta have great skills to win. Anybody that gambles at pool all their life and isn't in the black has a gambling problem!!!!
Having money on a game certainly does make a difference. My $10 game is better than my beer game. Is it the answer to playing great? Hell no! You gotta have great skills to win. Anybody that gambles at pool all their life and isn't in the black has a gambling problem!!!!
If you spend 10 % of your time at the pooltable improving your break, 30 % doing drills, 30 % playing tournaments and 30 % gambling, you will definitely improve at a quick rate.
All of the Pros gamble, what does that tell you.
Ralf Souquet?
Here's my problem with gambling: I have a family, a job, and other priorities that are more important than pool. So I'm unwilling to gamble for an amount of money that is going to upset me (or my wife). I think there are a lot of people in this same situation. Now here's what happens - I play guys that I should be getting the 7 or 8 from in nine-ball even, just to get a chance to play. I end up losing a hundred bucks or something (no big deal). But when the shoe is on the other foot and I'm playing somebody that I'm better than it seems like 9 times out of 10 after one set they either want to quit or adjust the game. So here I am wanting to play some competitive pool so I adjust. Then I sometimes win and sometimes lose. So, for a guy like me who LOVES POOL first and gambling is just sometimes a necessary evil I get screwed in the long run. I've really grown to not like the gambling at all.
I will concede that having something on the line helps improve your focus and I know you can't just run up to the pool hall and have a tournament waiting for you so I don't know what the answer is
- Chris
Frustrated with gambling
I will concede that having something on the line helps improve your focus and I know you can't just run up to the pool hall and have a tournament waiting for you so I don't know what the answer is
- Chris
Frustrated with gambling
One other thing:
I've just recently returned to playing again after hiding out in my basement for past 10 years or so (starting a family can do that) and what I have found is VERY FEW PEOPLE actually improve that much - gambling or not. I've seen a lot of players recently that I hadn't seen in probably 10 years or so and I can't say that many of them have improved very much. I guess they must not have gambled enough right? :wink:
I really think this is a societal thing, were not too many people are willing to put in the work. Most decent players just hang out until they can find a game...nothing left for them to practice I suppose.
I've just recently returned to playing again after hiding out in my basement for past 10 years or so (starting a family can do that) and what I have found is VERY FEW PEOPLE actually improve that much - gambling or not. I've seen a lot of players recently that I hadn't seen in probably 10 years or so and I can't say that many of them have improved very much. I guess they must not have gambled enough right? :wink:
I really think this is a societal thing, were not too many people are willing to put in the work. Most decent players just hang out until they can find a game...nothing left for them to practice I suppose.
The two biggest things that I noticed that helped my game was 1. playing in bigger tournys and tours and 2. Gambling, which in all honesty I think helped out more. Yes at first you may be nervous (I was) and butcher shots you would normally drill in your sleep, but once you start pushing through the payoff is tremendous.
What the hell does a French Impressionist painer got to do with anything? :wink:
Gsitz, you have hit the nail on the head. Welcome to the forum, by-the-way.
A long time ago a rising young pro told me that in order to do well you must become tournament seasoned. Well said.
If there is one thing all the top players have in common, it seems to be they all practice their asses off.
It is difficult to improve by gambling with the same handful of people all the time. If you're lucky, you can match up with a truly great player for cheap sets and after you've donated some can get tips and pointers to improve your game. I play my best pool when I'm over my head and that seems to be where most of my improvement takes place -besides drills that is. Playing the same people who are around your level will not make you much better and you will certainly hit a ceiling.
Gambling definitely improved my game under pressure. I never flinch under pressure in leagues (including Vegas), or in tournaments and I attribute that to having shot hundreds or even thousands of shots with money on the line. Tourneys don't help as much because your entry fee has been paid. That money is gone right off the bat and the pressure is off. You can earn bonus money if you place in the tourney but once the money is paid you no longer have money on the line. Drills AND gambling worked best for me.
Gambling definitely improved my game under pressure. I never flinch under pressure in leagues (including Vegas), or in tournaments and I attribute that to having shot hundreds or even thousands of shots with money on the line. Tourneys don't help as much because your entry fee has been paid. That money is gone right off the bat and the pressure is off. You can earn bonus money if you place in the tourney but once the money is paid you no longer have money on the line. Drills AND gambling worked best for me.