Gambling with cranksters...

cyrex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Memikey, I honestly think most of us on here would like to see pool rooms 'cleaned' up and our sport flourish like golf or poker. I'm not advocating drugs in a pool room at all but the reality is that is part of the late night social lifestyle. Just like bars, clubs, denny's (trust me, after 2AM it's definitely a looney bin). I'm working on improving my overall game which includes environment as well as the different types of personalities that one can encounter. Just the fact that I'm gambling at all puts me on the wrong side of the image really.

Anyone that knows me, knows that I'm not out 'hustling' anyone. Matching up with another player (drug addict, pro player, Santa Claus, whatever) with something on the line is helping to improve my game. Gambling for $ can also helps offset the cost it takes to play at a competitive level. If I can win $20 that's an entry fee to a local tournament. Or food or gas or new tips on my cue.

Until we get to a perfect world.. I'm gonna learn to swim with the sharks.
 

kildegirl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gamblers Shut Eye

cyrex said:
For all you gamblers out there I need some advice.. basically on dealing with fatigue. I have an 8-5 construction job and generally play pool in the evenings. Occasionally, I'll match up with a local that is a crack/crank head. I hold my own until it starts getting into the late hours. I've been up for 18 hours and am burning up energy focusing. But crankster head goes 'to his car' and comes back refreshed. Even if it's not this exact scenerio I'm sure lots of people have to deal with late night fatigue in general. What do you guys do out there to keep the energy up or other techniques for focusing?
The majority of normal people would go by by with the sandman.
 

poolplayer2093

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cyrex said:
For all you gamblers out there I need some advice.. basically on dealing with fatigue. I have an 8-5 construction job and generally play pool in the evenings. Occasionally, I'll match up with a local that is a crack/crank head. I hold my own until it starts getting into the late hours. I've been up for 18 hours and am burning up energy focusing. But crankster head goes 'to his car' and comes back refreshed. Even if it's not this exact scenerio I'm sure lots of people have to deal with late night fatigue in general. What do you guys do out there to keep the energy up or other techniques for focusing?


crank man it's the easiest way to keep going. just a line or two at first then a lot. if you don't have any spair cash just offer someone your cue for a few bucks.










hahaha just kidding. i drink coffee and if that's not strong enough i go home and sleep. playing when you're too tired is a losing battle man. it becomes what you want to do and what your body needs. i'll give you ten to one i know which way it ends when it's all said and done
 

cyrex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
kildegirl said:
The majority of normal people would go by by with the sandman.

I might have to argue with you that most pool players are not 'normal'. :D

Poolplayer2093: Yeah, that's where I'm kinda leaning to now. Coffee, soda, and carbs. Trying to sneak in a nap after work before going out is helping too. Funny how your brain wants to keep playing but your body just walks out the door.
 

Dead Money

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hmmmmmm Diet or Regular Moutaindew will perk ya up I bet..though not like some of the other stuff guys are taking that you are playing!
 

Dead Money

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Btw I am totally shocked that there are drug users hanging out in pool halls these days. I don't think I'm ever going to go to one of those places again:eek:

























Until tomorrow:D
 

memikey

Never Has Been
Silver Member
Thanks to everyone for all the input on this. I take it that it is realised by most that this was mainly a bit of devils advocate stuff from my side.

Fully aware of the impact and extent of drugs in USA and EUROPE society in general and sometimes on the game we all love.

Call me a wishful thinking old fuddy duddy but I don't believe or accept that it actually HAS to be like this. It's like that because you (yes YOU) are prepared to accept it. You have a drug problem in USA the extent of which is way in excess of what it ever was in the past (including within pool) because when it boils down to it you are basically prepared to shrug your shoulders and accept it as inevitable. It isn't.

Where I live, many people (including many pool payers) have quite large disposal incomes and quite a few have vast leisure time. We are very close to some of the most prolific drug production and trafficking areas of the world. However compared to USA or Europe there is negligible drug use here in or near pool halls despite these circumstances and despite the high amounts of disposable cash washing around. That is because as a society in general and as pool players in particular we are not prepared to accept it and because the Govt are not prepared to accept it and because they back up their stance with harsh laws and penalties.

I can leave my car unlocked outside the pool hall with lots of valuables inside it and no-one would dream of stealing from it. I can leave my wallet on the table beside my beer glass while shooting some pool. If I have too much to drink and take a taxi and accidentally leave my wallet in the pool hall or in the cab the pool hall owner or cab driver and/or the police will trace me and return it next day. No crack head will ever shove a broken glass in my face or try to mug me in the pool hall car park.

There's no magic in this. You get what you're prepared to accept:(
 

John Barton

New member
memikey said:
Thanks to everyone for all the input on this. I take it that it is realised by most that this was mainly a bit of devils advocate stuff from my side.

Fully understand and discussion is always better than trying to cover it up.

Fully aware of the impact and extent of drugs in USA and EUROPE society in general and sometimes on the game we all love.

Call me a wishful thinking old fuddy duddy but I don't believe or accept that it actually HAS to be like this. It's like that because you (yes YOU) are prepared to accept it. You have a drug problem in USA the extent of which is way in excess of what it ever was in the past (including within pool) because when it boils down to it you are basically prepared to shrug your shoulders and accept it as inevitable. It isn't.

I don't actually agree that drugs are more prevalent now than in the past. When one looks at the history of drugs then you can see that many now illegal substances were once legal and used widely and freely. I think drugs are a hot button issue for politicians and the media to push whenever they need headlines. Obviously there are a lot of complex social, moral, and legal facets that surround the issue of drugs in general. I also don't believe that individuals who refuse to socialize with drug users are going to stop those users from using by virtue of shunning them. If anything rejection will lead to even more use. The only way to keep drug users out of the pool room is for the owners to tell them their business is not welcome. Of course each individual can decide not to play with a person who seems to be high but that will include a lot of judgment on that individual's part and probably more than they need to deal with.


Where I live, many people (including many pool payers) have quite large disposal incomes and quite a few have vast leisure time. We are very close to some of the most prolific drug production and trafficking areas of the world. However compared to USA or Europe there is negligible drug use here in or near pool halls despite these circumstances and despite the high amounts of disposable cash washing around. That is because as a society in general and as pool players in particular we are not prepared to accept it and because the Govt are not prepared to accept it and because they back up their stance with harsh laws and penalties.

That is commendable but I think we have all heard that the laws don't apply to the upper echelon. I don't think that much is denied to those who want it for their pleasure if they are in high positions, no matter where they are. There are basically three kinds of users, recreational, functional, and escapist. You can bet that the harsher the laws the more underground it is. I am sure that in your community there are those that use drugs and fit into one or more of the three groups. However people who use and are halfway smart can control themselves to be able to conceal their use for a long time. But also you have quite a different culture there so it doesn't really apply to the USA. In the USA there are also some pretty harsh laws and plenty of stories of people in prison because of relatively small offenses. Still people use in the three groups I mentioned. Why? Because the recreational ones like it, the functional ones need it, and the escapists are desperate. So potential punishment isn't much of a deterrent. Why is it illegal to eat an ecstasy pill but not to slam down four vodka and red bulls? So you can see that some people don't see the reasoning behind such "laws" and refuse to obey them. It's really a sticky issue that goes far far beyond tolerance.

I can leave my car unlocked outside the pool hall with lots of valuables inside it and no-one would dream of stealing from it. I can leave my wallet on the table beside my beer glass while shooting some pool. If I have too much to drink and take a taxi and accidentally leave my wallet in the pool hall or in the cab the pool hall owner or cab driver and/or the police will trace me and return it next day. No crack head will ever shove a broken glass in my face or try to mug me in the pool hall car park.


Well I have been to many pool rooms around the world and especially in the United States. The incidence of people getting mugged by drug addicts in pool room parking lots is incredibly low. The users/addicts that I know are for the most part functioning people who have day jobs and wouldn't dream of doing anything to harm another person to support their habit. Of course the media and the government never report on those types of users. What would happen to the war on drugs if it were known that most people who use them get along just fine in society and harm no one?



There's no magic in this. You get what you're prepared to accept:(

Actually there is quite a bit of magic and sleight of hand going on. There are plenty of "studies" that are backed by various special interest groups who have their hand out for funding. Law enforcement now gets to "keep" what they seize and seizing someone's vehicle or home is only a matter of finding drugs in said vehicle or home. So the incentive is strong to make sure that drugs are "found". Perhaps a lot of people are prepared to accept that the drug issue isn't quite as cut and dried as the government would have you believe and so therefore aren't ready to pass judgment so quickly on those who use. I know I am not and my adolescence would make a strong case for the "war on drugs". Still I have seen to much in my life to tell people what not to do. As long as they are not harming anyone but themselves then I leave it alone. I accept that my fellow man has their own issues and knows how to deal with them.
 

!Smorgass Bored

Hump ? What HUMP ?
Gold Member
I Wonder What This BLUE Pill Is For

John Barton woke me up before the coffee perked with:
...The users/addicts that I know are for the most part functioning people who have day jobs and wouldn't dream of doing anything to harm another person to support their habit. Of course the media and the government never report on those types of users. What would happen to the war on drugs if it were known that most people who use them get along just fine in society and harm no one?


This is a bane on today's society and I have spent my entire life fighting this problem. I have gone to great lengths to avoid your scenario, including marrying every natural hair color. It's not easy going through life without a Job or any source of income.
Doug

*Step #1: Hello, my name is Doug and I am JOBLESS....
 

Stones

YEAH, I'M WOOFING AT YOU!
Silver Member
Aw, better pool through chemistry!

I always enjoyed playing drug heads. All I did was s-l-o-w way down with my game and take frequent breaks in the match. It would drive them bonkers.

I always played on the natch and usually had no problem out running their drug habit. They probably spent more money on drugs during the match than they could have won off of me anyway. LOL

One of the very few times I ever quit winner (back in the day you NEVER quit winner) was when I was playing a speed freak.

One Friday, I had worked all day, rounded up my running buddies and drove a 100 miles to look for action. Right through the door of the poolroom, a guy I had never seen, jumps me to play some, $10 a game 9 ball.
Well, off we go. About two hours into it, this guy starts heading to the bathroom about once every half an hour. BINGO! The drug user light goes off in my head. Everytime he comes back to the table, he's like a man on a mission but I'm still outrunning him.

I keep asking him to jack the bet while offering a little weight as an incentive but he won't have it.

We started playing about 10 p.m. and it's now 9 a.m. in the morning. I'm running out of steam and his bathroom breaks are now about 15 minutes apart. I've got him stuck $400 and I tell him to either jack the bet to $50 a game or I quit.

He says I can't quit winner and let's keep playing. As I'm unscrewing my cue,I said I going to get some sleep and I'll be back at 4:00 to play some more. He goes bonkers and starts threatening me but this is why I brought my posse with me. My friends stand up and give him the look and now everything is cool.

He did stiff me out of the last game but when I paid the pool time for both of us, I shorted it by $10 bucks and told the counter man to collect it from ol' speedy gonzalez over there on the other side of the room.

When you're dealing with drug heads, it's postie-toasties and a set finishing time. It'll save a lot of headaches. Get the money while you can from these guys because in my experiences over the years, the chances are within the not too distant future, they will be in jail or on a slab at the morgue. I've seen a lot of talent flushed down the toliet too many times in the past because of drugs.

Stones
 
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219Dave

Pool is my therapy
Silver Member
I graduated law school in 1996, and have spent the past eleven years working as a prosecutor. I've prosecuted everything from small possession cases to huge, drug kingpin cases involving thousands of kilos, wiretaps etc.

In addition to drug cases, I've handled countless burglaries by addicts, cases where addicts beat the living hell out of their girlfriends, their own kids, and their girlfriend's kids. Finally, virtually every homicide I've prosecuted is drug-related. In short, drugs are a plague on our society.

Come the end of the day, there are people that I'd rather play pool with.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Dave, how can you say this???

Dave,

How can you say this? I read all the time that drug use is a victimless crime.

Yes, I am being sarcastic. I have seen lives ruined by the dozens because of drug use and more people dead than I like to think about.

Real world though, we deal with drug users everyday, in all walks of life. It would be foolish to think that pool rooms were the one place they weren't. I too prefer not to play with people obviously under the influence but we all play with users if we play with more than a very few others.

Hu


219Dave said:
I graduated law school in 1996, and have spent the past eleven years working as a prosecutor. I've prosecuted everything from small possession cases to huge, drug kingpin cases involving thousands of kilos, wiretaps etc.

In addition to drug cases, I've handled countless burglaries by addicts, cases where addicts beat the living hell out of their girlfriends, their own kids, and their girlfriend's kids. Finally, virtually every homicide I've prosecuted is drug-related. In short, drugs are a plague on our society.

Come the end of the day, there are people that I'd rather play pool with.
 

John Barton

New member
219Dave said:
I graduated law school in 1996, and have spent the past eleven years working as a prosecutor. I've prosecuted everything from small possession cases to huge, drug kingpin cases involving thousands of kilos, wiretaps etc.

In addition to drug cases, I've handled countless burglaries by addicts, cases where addicts beat the living hell out of their girlfriends, their own kids, and their girlfriend's kids. Finally, virtually every homicide I've prosecuted is drug-related. In short, drugs are a plague on our society.

Come the end of the day, there are people that I'd rather play pool with.

And then you need to ask why? Why are all these people on drugs? Why is it a crime to use them?

Why can other societies seem to function well enough with less crime by legalizing some drugs?

I have no doubt that you have seen the absolute worst that drugs does to people.

Maybe though it is not the drugs that are the plague. Maybe it's the humanity that is missing that is the real problem. Maybe the fact that so many people resort to drugs to escape their lives points to a larger problem with society itself that leaves so many people disenfranchised.

If you want to rid the world of drugs then do so for all of them. Including the ones that are "legal" because more people use and abuse those than the ones who use illegal ones. Start with alcohol and cigarettes. I am pretty sure that there is more alcohol related domestic abuse than with other drugs. And I am equally sure that most of this crime remains unreported and is not prosecuted.
 

MastersMaster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just out of curiosity, for those that stated their disdain for players that take any kind of pills while playing a match, would you play me? Yes, I take pills while I am playing, not because I want to, but because I have to if I want to be able to stand, walk around the table, or bend to get down on my shots. I underwent a spinal-disc fusion and am in a fair amount of constant pain. Sometimes it is very excruciating, since I have almost zero flexibility in my lower back.

Also, with so many claiming to play naturally, what if I whipped out my syringe and stuck an insulin shot in my arm? Would cry foul about that too? Some people don't have the best of health and need certain substances just to be close to normal.

So, please tell me. Would you be willing to play against someone like me, or would you slap them with an inappropriate label and black-ball them?
 

219Dave

Pool is my therapy
Silver Member
I'm diabetic and take 8 pills a day. No one's railing against you, me, or anyone else that has to take prescription meds. They're LEGAL and unfortunate medical circumstances force us to take them. That's totally different than being a crackhead, meth addict, or whatever.
 

memikey

Never Has Been
Silver Member
MastersMaster said:
Just out of curiosity, for those that stated their disdain for players that take any kind of pills while playing a match, would you play me? Yes, I take pills while I am playing, not because I want to, but because I have to if I want to be able to stand, walk around the table, or bend to get down on my shots. I underwent a spinal-disc fusion and am in a fair amount of constant pain. Sometimes it is very excruciating, since I have almost zero flexibility in my lower back.

Also, with so many claiming to play naturally, what if I whipped out my syringe and stuck an insulin shot in my arm? Would cry foul about that too? Some people don't have the best of health and need certain substances just to be close to normal.

So, please tell me. Would you be willing to play against someone like me, or would you slap them with an inappropriate label and black-ball them?

Genuinely sorry to hear of any pool player who needs such legal prescribed medication as you do in order to be able to achieve the physical movements necessary to play.

That being understood it seems you may have got the wrong end of the stick. Perhaps if you could point out a specific post (or posts) in which any contributor has expressed or even hinted at a "disdain for players that take ANY kind of pills while playing a match", then your point might be better understood.
 

memikey

Never Has Been
Silver Member
John Barton said:
.......I don't actually agree that drugs are more prevalent now than in the past.....

John, I think I do understand all your general lines of argument very well........but if you genuinely believe that there are no more people using fairly hard core drugs than there were in say 1967, or that there is not overwhelmingly more crime committed now in pursuit of funds to buy hard core drugs than there was in 1967, or that the present illegality of certain drugs which were legal in 1967 accounts for most of the documented and/or plainly observed vast increase in illegal drug use in all walks of life, or even if you simply think that there are no more hard core drug users in pool halls than there were in 1967......there is little point in further discussion.......but thanks for putting your arguments in a clear and easily understood fashion.
 

John Barton

New member
memikey said:
John, I think I do understand all your general lines of argument very well........but if you genuinely believe that there are no more people using fairly hard core drugs than there were in say 1967, or that there is not overwhelmingly more crime committed now in pursuit of funds to buy hard core drugs than there was in 1967, or that the present illegality of certain drugs which were legal in 1967 accounts for most of the documented and/or plainly observed vast increase in illegal drug use in all walks of life, or even if you simply think that there are no more hard core drug users in pool halls than there were in 1967......there is little point in further discussion.......but thanks for putting your arguments in a clear and easily understood fashion.

It's not that I think that there is more or less of any particular drug in use. I just don't know.

Was there more absinthe, or heroin in use when it was legal? More cocaine when it was available over the counter? Do the Netherlands have a huge crime problem due to drugs or is fairly well contained? I don't really know.

I know all the old time poolplayers from the 60's and 70's talk openly about all the drugs they did. One player is especially famous for his top gear and ability to bust anyone when he was jacked up on speed.

I think drug use is way more open now than it was in the past. I do think that cocktails like meth and crack have made drugs more available and also more dangerous as one doesn't really know what they are made of. So on that score I agree that drug use is probably more widespread in that aspect. I think though that in society whether it's alcohol or crack that the those at the bottom have always been able to find a mind altering escape for prices that they could afford. And for those that couldn't hold it together enough to afford it they have always turned to crime. I believe that this was as true in the 1850's as it is in 2007.

I only believe that it is far more recognized today because of the many outlets to report and sensationalize drug use and abuse.

Don't get me wrong, I am totally against the destruction that can come with drug abuse and the the destruction that comes with illegal trafficking and illegal procurement of drugs. But I think the "war on drugs" is a sham.

I think that if drugs like heroin, and cocaine, and marijuana were made legal then the "war" would end. Allow legal use, legal production and distribution and you will see that the destruction will be reduced tremendously. The whole legal apparatus we have constructed around this "war" will dissipate and the money can be used for things that heal rather than divide the nation. We have a destructive drug that is legal - alcohol - and yet most of the users of alcohol are productive members of society who use it recreationally to enjoy themselves.

I think like cigarettes and alcohol that people would try it and find their tolerance levels, some would get addicted and most would just do it occasionally.

At least that is the theory. :) I am off to take an aspirin for my headache and a pain pill for my "back".
 

JimS

Grandpa & his grand boys.
Silver Member
It had been a long time since I heard that one Doug. She sure could sing.

As for the other link. I think I remember a day like that back in...
Hope you're not busy for a month.
 
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