Gender test for any first place over $199......

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So, quote a few questions / comments directed to me on this thread. In lieu of answering each on individually, I'm gonna say a few tings right here and I think it covers vast majority if not all of them.

Firstly, one thing I've noticed is too many people are trying to make this thread / question / topic aboutmso,ethnic that it is not. While we can pretty safely say this is not wide spread, I'm gonna give you an example of why it is a real problem . So let's say there's some big women's tournament with say $10,000 first place or something. I can totally see someone walking in and saying " oh, yeah btw I feel as if I'm a woman ( or whatever the phrase they all use nowadays ) and get in on the woman's tournament while quite possibly being a heavy favorite. Doesn't even have to be for $10k, could be for much less or really any amount. We ALL know plenty of pool players that have done much worse for a lot less - I know I sure do. Then what about APA woman's only? There's money to be made there too.

We don't even necessarily have to be talking about someone that's trying to do it undercover. Could just be a normal straight guy doing it with a wink and a nod or just trying to be funny or whatever. Those is just a spoke in a big wheel but this kind of stuff can become a slippery slope real quick - just look at that ridiculous bathroom " law " we had Tammy down our throat last year. I have a feeling; whether they will admit it in here or not, those here saying doesn't matter etc might have a different opinion if their little kids were forced to go to the bathrooms under these circumstances. If it truly doesn't matter why do the Olympics care? Why does every state issued drivers license list gender ( if not all, most ), and countless other examples as well.

For those that don't know, this thread here is a continuation of a discussion that was going on in another thread about Fargo and how Mike will be handling Tranny rankings and which tournaments cared and which ones did not.

Beebs : Your first question was already addressed by a couple of people but one example is AZ's very own and then there was that APA thing too. There's other instances in the past as well. Now as to putting it on blast...... no, no need to do that as coming out on an Internet forum is all the blast one would need. Not exactly like it was a secret. In fact, we've heard WAY more than I ever would have cared to on here by that very person themselves. Imo, they did that probably to seek attention and when you put something like that out there attention you will receive. Lastly I'm not sweating this at all. Doesn't effect me and I have lost no sleep over it lol nor will I regardless of what happens. Hey, at least it's not another stick, balls, thread .......... ☺
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
LOL. This whole issue makes me laugh! I'm sure the women can handle their own tour! This is all part of that American hysteria regarding the transgender issue. You guys do know that was all a way to distract you from the real issues, right?

Anyway, the odds of this actually happening has got to be extremely small. Would you shave your legs, put on lipstick and a dress, go to a tournament and play it all the while wearing that? I live in a rough part of town, I'd probably be beaten up before I got 50 m away from my apartment. If my friends saw me, I'd never hear the end of it! What if someone took a picture of you and posted it online? I'm not in any way homophobic, but I wouldn't be caught dead wearing a dress and lipstick and I think most straight and maybe even a lot of gay men would feel the same way.

So then there is the subset of people who not only like wearing dresses and lipstick, but do so often, publicly. That's not the largest part of the population, is it? What are the actual odds of such a person, not only playing pool, but also being extremely good at it, to the point of dominating the tour? Those odds have to be miniscule! A lot of pool players have a very inflated sense of their skills, anyway. They think they'd dominate the womens tour, even playing on heels, lol. Well, I watched Jasmine Ouschan cut through a field comprising of male A players like a hot knife through butter... Those players were not wearing unfamiliar shoes or clothes, either...

When you are talking about actual transgender people, not just crossdressers, you know, the people who actually take hormones and have had surgeries, the odds of them being brilliant pool players have to be even smaller than that, simply because of the even smaller subset they belong to. These people are not fraudsters or tricksters! No price money is worth having your privates surgically altered. They are sincere in their desires to live as a women and go through hellish medical procedures to accomplish that task. I say, if the women are fine with them competing, so should you be! I think the most humane thing is to deal with these things on a case to case basis, and with sensitivity. But for the most part, if the State/Country recognizes you as a woman, then that is what you are. Showing papers should be enough in those cases. What if a person turns out to be a woman by your definition were to be subjected to a forced blood test or examination? I don't think they'd be very happy about it at all! Neither would anyone else, for that matter. If paperwork is respected, then that need never happen.

How would you feel if some greasy tournament director said to your face that he didn't think you were a real man? That wouldn't go over really well with me. I don't know about you, but if any implied threat of force or imperative to strip were to follow that, this pool tournament just became a two man mma tournament.
 

WVShootist

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I never understood the gender stipulations on pool in the first place. It's as pointless as Men and Women's Chess. In a game where the method of play neutralizes the physical difference in gender, why even care who has what sexual organs?
 

Ekojasiloop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is actually a very interesting topic. I think with all the talk about equality, in a sport like pool where the future lies is the women getting a pair and playing with the men to feed their kids. And, the day they do that, win or lose, they've just taken a giant leap in actually becoming equal. At least in my opinion.
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
I never understood the gender stipulations on pool in the first place. It's as pointless as Men and Women's Chess. In a game where the method of play neutralizes the physical difference in gender, why even care who has what sexual organs?

Well, this has been discussed many times already. In Chess, the woman would not cash, or so few of them ever would, they would not make a living at it. Nothing wrong with that either. Very few Grand Master woman players on the planet. And even then, they can't hang with the top 50 GM's. Men are aggressive by design. Woman are not. And that's a good thing, imagine if woman were just like men? This planet would really suck :)
 

jimmyg

Mook! What's a Mook?
Silver Member
quotes-human-beings-are-born-with-different-capacities-aleksandr-solzhenitsyn-9849.jpg
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How is this a matter of discussion? Your gender for pool is what is on your license.

If it is good enough for an id, it is good enough for a tournament.
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
How is this a matter of discussion? Your gender for pool is what is on your license.

If it is good enough for an id, it is good enough for a tournament.

Are you discriminating against people who cannot drive?:thumbup:
 

PRED

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How is this a matter of discussion? Your gender for pool is what is on your license.

If it is good enough for an id, it is good enough for a tournament.

State or District gender neutral driver license exist. Oregon and D.C. They are in, right?

I would pay to see Jack Hines enter and win a WPBA event. Somebody said something of the women taking care of themselves, wonder how that would go?
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
State or District gender neutral driver license exist. Oregon and D.C. They are in, right?

I would pay to see Jack Hines enter and win a WPBA event. Somebody said something of the women taking care of themselves, wonder how that would go?

No tournaents in dc (!).
They are too high to worry about such things in OR.
Nonissues:eek::wink:
 

Ak Guy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Really weird to me.

I find it very strange that we even have a women's only any thing any more.

Our society thinks it is ok to let any one walk into any bath room depending on who they feel like on a given day.

We want to homogenize and make every one the same, yet diversity is the shout out.

We let women play in men's tournaments, but have women only tournaments. Why don't we have men only tournaments? Are we saying we do this because women are inferior to men in a given sport?

Is it really possible we were created different by our creator? I think so. I am ok being a guy and make no apologies for it.

If our liberal society believes trying to create a sex that is not male or female is going to help any one then we are in really bad shape.

Looking at the big picture, I don't think pool is important enough, popular enough or any thing else resembling other sports to gender test other then having some one sign a form saying they are male or female. Doing all of that can be expensive and opens the door up for lawyers to get a foot in the door. Do we really want lawyers in pool? Look at what a bunch of lawyers do when they get together, our Congress is a prime example. They all get rich off of others earnings and accomplish little.
 
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skip100

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I find it very strange that we even have a women's only any thing any more.

Our society thinks it is ok to let any one walk into any bath room depending on who they feel like on a given day.

We want to homogenize and make every one the same, yet diversity is the shout out.

We let women play in men's tournaments, but have women only tournaments. Why don't we have men only tournaments? Are we saying we do this because women are inferior to men in a given sport?

Is it really possible we were created different by our creator? I think so. I am ok being a guy and make no apologies for it.

If our liberal society believes trying to create a sex that is not male or female is going to help any one then we are in really bad shape.
Pass the bong, bro.
 

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
So, quote a few questions / comments directed to me on this thread. In lieu of answering each on individually, I'm gonna say a few tings right here and I think it covers vast majority if not all of them.

Firstly, one thing I've noticed is too many people are trying to make this thread / question / topic aboutmso,ethnic that it is not. While we can pretty safely say this is not wide spread, I'm gonna give you an example of why it is a real problem . So let's say there's some big women's tournament with say $10,000 first place or something. I can totally see someone walking in and saying " oh, yeah btw I feel as if I'm a woman ( or whatever the phrase they all use nowadays ) and get in on the woman's tournament while quite possibly being a heavy favorite. Doesn't even have to be for $10k, could be for much less or really any amount. We ALL know plenty of pool players that have done much worse for a lot less - I know I sure do. Then what about APA woman's only? There's money to be made there too.

We don't even necessarily have to be talking about someone that's trying to do it undercover. Could just be a normal straight guy doing it with a wink and a nod or just trying to be funny or whatever. Those is just a spoke in a big wheel but this kind of stuff can become a slippery slope real quick - just look at that ridiculous bathroom " law " we had Tammy down our throat last year. I have a feeling; whether they will admit it in here or not, those here saying doesn't matter etc might have a different opinion if their little kids were forced to go to the bathrooms under these circumstances. If it truly doesn't matter why do the Olympics care? Why does every state issued drivers license list gender ( if not all, most ), and countless other examples as well.

For those that don't know, this thread here is a continuation of a discussion that was going on in another thread about Fargo and how Mike will be handling Tranny rankings and which tournaments cared and which ones did not.

Beebs : Your first question was already addressed by a couple of people but one example is AZ's very own and then there was that APA thing too. There's other instances in the past as well. Now as to putting it on blast...... no, no need to do that as coming out on an Internet forum is all the blast one would need. Not exactly like it was a secret. In fact, we've heard WAY more than I ever would have cared to on here by that very person themselves. Imo, they did that probably to seek attention and when you put something like that out there attention you will receive. Lastly I'm not sweating this at all. Doesn't effect me and I have lost no sleep over it lol nor will I regardless of what happens. Hey, at least it's not another stick, balls, thread .......... ☺

I live in Colorado, we were one of the first states with a restroom law. It has never been
a problem.
As far as pool goes and men playing in women's tournaments, I've thought about it and
I don't think I know a straight male (or a gay one for that matter) that would enter a
woman's tournament based on that day's gender identity *wink* *wink*, but typically it's
not something I'd pay any attention to.
Are there any pro players that you know of that are trans? Has it been an issue at their level?
I have heard that this has happened in the APA occasionally and they to my knowledge if it's been
called into question the rules are not adjusted to accommodate the gender identity issue. They
go by the anatomical rule, as far as I know
 
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Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Women may enter mens events because it is stiffer :eek: competition. There is no competitive advantage to a woman entering a mens event.

Men may not enter womens events for the opposite reason.

Taking gender out...analogy:
Skill levels 1, 2 ,3; 1 is highest skill and 3 is lowest...
2 and 3 may enter 1 events, but 1 may not enter 2 or 3 events.

I live in Colorado, we were one of the first states with a restroom law. It has never been
a problem.
As far as pool goes and men playing in women's tournaments, I've thought about it and
I don't think I know a straight male (or a gay one for that matter) that would enter a
woman's tournament based on that day's gender identity *wink* *wink*, but typically it's
not something I'd pay any attention to.
Are there any pro players that you know of that are trans? Has it been an issue at their level?
I have heard that this has happened in the APA occasionally and they to my knowledge if it's been
called into question the rules are not adjusted to accommodate the gender identity issue. They
go by the anatomical rule, as far as I know
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is a woman who plays out of California, and many national events, for whom it is "common knowledge” that she is transgender. I don’t know so I don’t want to name this person, but she won with her team at the ACS nationals this past spring. She’s an older woman and has been around pool for many years - and won lots of tournaments and league events. All I know is the people I talk to believe she’s trans and that it’s unfair. Maybe some people here know who I’m talking about.
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
There is a woman who plays out of California, and many national events, for whom it is "common knowledge” that she is transgender. I don’t know so I don’t want to name this person, but she won with her team at the ACS nationals this past spring. She’s an older woman and has been around pool for many years - and won lots of tournaments and league events. All I know is the people I talk to believe she’s trans and that it’s unfair. Maybe some people here know who I’m talking about.

Austin Murphy?:thumbup:
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
There is a woman who plays out of California, and many national events, for whom it is "common knowledge” that she is transgender. I don’t know so I don’t want to name this person, but she won with her team at the ACS nationals this past spring. She’s an older woman and has been around pool for many years - and won lots of tournaments and league events. All I know is the people I talk to believe she’s trans and that it’s unfair. Maybe some people here know who I’m talking about.

THAT'S where it gets tricky....if I was running a lady's tournament, cross-dressers would
not be allowed, but someone who went all the way with the operation would.

The people in this world that i reserve my sympathy for in these matters are hermaphrodites...
...they were born unlucky.

As far as the biggest tournaments, they tend to be OPEN, therefore gender is no prob.

Up here, the washroom problem is being solved without legislation...more and more
businesses are putting multiple single washrooms that can be locked....
....with no gender designation on the door.
 
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