Getting A Lesson From (Your Choice)

JoeyInCali said:
I'll go to who the pros go to, Gerry Breisath.

Gerry Breisath is someone I would never take a lesson from again, even if it was free.

I would love to take a lesson with Mike Sigel more then anyone, the guy who knew how to grind and win so many huge tournaments and win over 90% of the finals he was in. I would not care much about stroke mechanics, I want the inside mental game when playing under pressure and to learn the mindset it takes to win against the best and become the best. There are tons of players out there that can stroke the ball great, but the mental game seperates most of those people from the pro level. I would just want to play the guy and have him critique my game as he smokes me, and watch his videos of his big wins against top players who shoot back and go over what he was thinking in his head to overcome a zoned pro player and beat him. Mike Sigel if he had my skills and stroke would be a way better player then me based on the mental power of his game alone.
 
Celtic said:
I would love to take a lesson with Mike Sigel more then anyone, the guy who knew how to grind and win so many huge tournaments and win over 90% of the finals he was in. I would not care much about stroke mechanics, I want the inside mental game when playing under pressure and to learn the mindset it takes to win against the best and become the best. There are tons of players out there that can stroke the ball great, but the mental game seperates most of those people from the pro level. I would just want to play the guy and have him critique my game as he smokes me, and watch his videos of his big wins against top players who shoot back and go over what he was thinking in his head to overcome a zoned pro player and beat him. Mike Sigel if he had my skills and stroke would be a way better player then me based on the mental power of his game alone.

Good post. More or less the same reasons I chose Varner, one of Sigel's most capable contemporaries. Both knew how to grind and played their best when the pressure was greatest. You;ve got me reconsidering my choice, but Sigel and Varner would be my top two choices at this point. In baseball, one of the great compliments a hitter can be paid is to be called a "tough out". Well, Mike and Nick are what you call tough outs in pool.
 
I Love Magic

I'd have to say Efren....gotta hope some of that magic rubs off. He may not be a teacher, per se, but I bet 4 hours with him would certainly yield some real entertainment and enlightenment.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I'll go to who the pros go to, Gerry Breisath.
FYI:
Mark Wilson spent 5 days with Jeanette Lee last week! I don't think they were spent looking at photo albums, drinking coffee or walking in the park! Many PRO's have been trained/coached by Mark Wilson.
Timothy White (Billiard Sanctuary Academy of the Cueing Arts) has worked with Allison Fisher, Gerda Hofstetter, Corey Dueul as well as many others.
...both of these fine Instructors were instructed by Jerry Breisath.

Zim
 
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Celtic said:
Gerry Breisath is someone I would never take a lesson from again, even if it was free.

I would love to take a lesson with Mike Sigel more then anyone, the guy who knew how to grind and win so many huge tournaments and win over 90% of the finals he was in.


Sometimes the biggest names in teaching with a great number of successful students don't always have the chemistry, personality, or teaching methods that are needed for each and every candidate. In golf, I know David Ledbetter has turned off more than his share of students even though he has a great reputation and helped many. amateurs as well as PGA pro's.

This is exactly why I also picked Mike Sigel, in addition to the fact that he flat out knows how to play 14.1 with the best of them.
 
I AGREE - Gerry Breisath & Mark Wilson

I previously mentioned Mark Wilson and now people are mentioning Gerry Breisath. I think Gerry Breisath is ALSO a great instructor & teacher. I have a great story to tell about me & Gerry Breisath from back in the 70's but don't have the time right now to tell it. It would have to be about 2 pages. For now I'll just say he is a very nice & knowledgeable gentleman.
TY & GL
 
OldHasBeen said:
I previously mentioned Mark Wilson and now people are mentioning Gerry Breisath. I think Gerry Breisath is ALSO a great instructor & teacher. I have a great story to tell about me & Gerry Breisath from back in the 70's but don't have the time right now to tell it. It would have to be about 2 pages. For now I'll just say he is a very nice & knowledgeable gentleman.
TY & GL

OHB,
Just a note from one of the many on this forum that always enjoys your stories. Can't wait for the story about Jerry.
 
OldHasBeen said:
I previously mentioned Mark Wilson and now people are mentioning Gerry Breisath. I think Gerry Breisath is ALSO a great instructor & teacher. I have a great story to tell about me & Gerry Breisath from back in the 70's but don't have the time right now to tell it. It would have to be about 2 pages. For now I'll just say he is a very nice & knowledgeable gentleman.
TY & GL


You REALLY need to be thrashed for this post...how can you tickle everybody's curiosity like that and then fly the coop? C'mon man, you tell some great stories, don't stop now.
 
I have heard that CJ Whiley is a very good instructor for the mental part of the game, and he's certainly qualified as far as skill goes. I'd like to get some lessons from Mark Wilson too because I don't think a pro no matter how good they are necessarily would know how to impart that knowledge.

I know some very good players with tremendous talent that cannot explain how they do what they do. For example, Raphael Martinez can do some incredible things with a cue ball but I don't think he can tell you how he does it because he just has a gift.

Tony Robles, from what I hear, is a very good teacher and a super nice guy. I'd really like to learn from him too.
 
My Gerry Breisath Story

Waaaaaaaaaaay back in the mid to late 70's, I was Hustling up in Wisconsin and found myself at Gerry Breisath's Pool Room. I was hustling as a "Plastic Phone Book Cover Ad Salesman" because I really was (very occasionally). I had all the materials and could be VERY persuasive as a Salesman. I wore a Coat & Tie and used to go into a Pool Room about 3 pm acting like I had just had a hard day. I KNEW WHO GERRY WAS! - HE DIDN'T KNOW ME AT ALL. I knew he was very tough action and didn't want any part of him even. I also knew he had quite a bit of gamble. For me, back then, that’s all it took.
I went in asking for the owner and proceeded to actually sell him an ad on the local Phone Book Cover (for $295). Remember, I had all the selling tools including Samples, Contracts, Etc., Etc.
After selling him an ad, I sat down and filled out a bunch of paperwork in the lounge area of his poolroom. I had told him that I would be in the area for the rest of the week and really liked his place and would probably spend quite a bit of time in here after work each day.
"HE ASKED ME IF I PLAYED ANY POOL"!
Now this is the key to real hustling!
I knew he had just written out a check to me for the ad and was thinking of a way to get even. FYI - I didn't (or ever would) actually cash his check.
I told him that I had played some pretty good pool while attending college and made some extra money that way.
Remember, I had to play good enough to qualify for his hustle and also to bring in my original 3-piece cue. This was one of these dime store cues that was terrible until I got done with it. It was completely re-worked, including the shaft, furrow, tip, balance & joints. While it wasn't near as good as my Balabushka, I didn't ever use it if I had to play as good as I could with the Balabushka.
When he actually asked me to play for $10 or $20 - I acted Shocked. I said I was way too tired and doubted if I could give him much of a challenge anyway. He went back to work and I was busy doing my daily paperwork. I had a couple of beers and finally saw exactly what I was looking for. A decent playing young man who played the perfect speed. He hustled me to play for $3 nine ball and I accepted. I played off the wall until I raised the bet to $5 a game. I went out and came back with my 3-piece cue in my little black suitcase type cue case. The whole case was only about 20 inches long because the cue was a 3 piece. It was one of the most deceptive, successful, hustling tools I have ever come up with. I looked like a complete businessman sucker who actually thought this 3-piece cue was a great cue and would improve my game.
I had a very bad night. I lost a total of $140 and was very upset that this "Kid" could beat me the way he did. I vowed to return after work the next day.
Gerry had watched (this Broadway Show) for a couple of hours before taking off but I KNEW he would hear of the results, in detail.
Now during the course of this match I learned that Gerry spotted this kid the 7, 8 & the break whenever they played cheap practice pool. I ALSO KNEW – THAT’S HOW GERRY & I WOULD START OUT PLAYING THE NEXT DAY!
The next day about 3:30 I show up. I appear to be very tired (tie pulled down & sleeves rolled up) and have a lot of paperwork to do.
This kid won’t let me alone. He wants to play some more and I explain that I have work to do first & foremost. I tell him that I’m not interested in playing anymore $5 pool anyway. He states that he is willing to play for $20 or $30 a game. I say – NO – the only way I would even consider playing anymore would have to be for at least some $500 sets. Race to 9. Naturally Gerry was taking all this in and assumed I was just trying to “High Roll” the kid.
“THINK ABOUT THIS”!
If the kid comes up with the $500 for a set – I take him off without bringing any heat.
If Gerry sticks his nose in to save the honor of the local kid, he is right where I want him.

TY & GL – Gotta go – “TO BE CONTINUED”
 
OldHasBeen If the kid comes up with the $500 for a set – I take him off without bringing any heat. If Gerry sticks his nose in to save the honor of the local kid said:
This is beautiful.......I love that 20" suitcase idea for a 3 piecer...looking forward to Part II
 
OHB,

You're a sick, sick man!!! How dare you leave a cliff hanger like that!!! :D

The rest of the story better be here soon, or else :eek:

Jim
 
OldHasBeen said:
... I went out and came back with my 3-piece cue in my little black suitcase type cue case. The whole case was only about 20 inches long because the cue was a 3 piece. It was one of the most deceptive, successful, hustling tools I have ever come up with. I looked like a complete businessman sucker who actually thought this 3-piece cue was a great cue and would improve my game...

OHB, that reminds me of how, in his days as a road player, Dallas West used to carry a cue that had the butt painted white. Dallas tells the story often, saying, "one look at that cue and I was the guy you had to play."

Looking forward to the rest of your story.
 
"The Conclusion & The Sting"

Well the kid can’t come up with any more than $200.
I refuse to play for less than the $500.
Gerry is now sure that I’m just a Big Blow Hard that probably wouldn’t play for $500 anyway.
REMEMBER – There are about 20 or so people (customers) of Gerry’s standing around because of the “Talk” about this Business Man Sucker coming back today.
Gerry says that he is willing to play me for $500 a set, if I’m serious.
HOW? – I REPLY!
We both agree (after 10 minutes of woofing) that the only fair way for us to play is the same way that Gerry plays the kid. With the 7, 8 & the break.

We play 2 sets that day, 3 the next day (with just the 8 & the break), & 2 more the following day (with just the 8).

All this time I stay “In Character” and have to leave about 8:30 or 9 so as to be able to work the next day.

In reality, I am playing a Very Good player EVEN $30 & $50 NINE BALL at a bar in Jefferson, WI about a 45 minute drive east of Madison. We are starting to play about 10 o’clock every night and I’m playing in jeans, sweatshirt & tennis shoes. I’m using my Balabushka and in “Dead Stroke”.

NOW IT’S FRIDAY – and the action is just about over. The player in Jefferson has lost about $2,800 and exhausted all his resources & backers the night before.

Gerry is stuck $3,500 and refuses to play anymore unless it’s EVEN.

KEEP IN MIND THAT I DIDN’T JUST STUMBLE INTO HIS POOL ROOM BUT WAS STEERED BY SOMEONE. I knew he was a gentleman and had “Been Around The Block”. I also know that he was starting to “Smell A Rat” but because I had beaten him so bad and he didn’t know if I had ever played my best, I also knew that I had an advantage even if we were to play EVEN.

I got weak and did something I almost NEVER do. I told him that I would play him a $700 set EVEN. - 7 AHEAD.
He agreed.
I got completely “Out Of Character” and returned with my Balabushka, jeans, Etc.
It took almost 6 hours for me to win and to this day it was one of the toughest “Gunfights” I have ever played.
Gerry wasn’t happy, (by any means) but knew what had happened. I could tell that while he didn’t enjoy “THE HUSTLE” he somehow respected it.

THE THING I REMEMBER MOST IS WHAT HE LAST SAID –
“PLEASE DON’T COME BACK IN HERE MONDAY AND OFFER ME THE 8”!

NOW FLASH TO 1992

I am in Madison, WI to train a Sales Rep for my NEW advertising company. This is a legitimate company I have now owned & operated for the last 14 years. We now have 28 Sales Reps all over the country selling my product that I invented & developed from a dream I had in the middle of the night back in Sept, 91. All the information about my company is @ www.communitymagnets.com.

I weighed about 120 pounds more than the last time I was in Madison and find myself back at Gerry’s poolroom. I REALLY AM there to kill a few hours after training this Rep in Middleton. To this day, he is still with me and the oldest Rep I have. He makes over 60K a year in commissions.

I sit down to have a few beers and relax. Just wanted to see if I could run into Gerry again and ask “HowYaDoin”. Gerry is not around. As I sit there watching this College kid banging around the balls (and hardly ever missing) I guess he notices me watching him so he asks me to play. I go into the “Same Old, Same Old “ and refuse. I say I have a hard days work ahead and need to get to bed.
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS – “THIS TIME I’M TELLING THE TRUTH”!
Well this kid won’t let me alone and keeps after me to play. Now this is one of those young, dumb, smart ass pool players who believe that every time they offer a spot to another player and he turns it down, it is the same as winning at that game. I just keep turning down the offers and he finally gets under my skin a little. He also has gotten to the point of offering me the last three & the break. He says he can only play for $20 a game though. He shoots pretty straight but I KNOW he is the type who will completely fold if someone shoots back at him. I have also had about 3 or 4 beers by now (I never drink while playing) but figure I can still teach this young whippersnapper a think or two. The waitress who is serving me tells me that everyone in here hates this punk because he hustles all the non-players and won’t play any fair games with anyone who plays anywhere close to him.
I tell him that if he can come up with $200 I will play a set of Nine Ball, Race to 11, just to shut him up. He leaves and comes back in 20 minutes with all he can raise - $175.
Now I make sure the $ Posted with the biggest guy in the house and go out, get my stick, change into tennis shoes and return.
I GOT THE KID 10 to 3 AND WHO DO YOU THINK WALKS IN ??? – GERRY
He has just been told what’s going on and comes over to the railing overlooking the table and sees IT’S ME.
HE STARTS TO LAUGH SO LOUD, SO LONG & SO HARD THAT I THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO FAINT.
“HE NEVER SAID A WORD – JUST TURNED AROUND AND WALKED OUT”.


Ps – If anyone would be interested in a nice framed & mounted newspaper article all about me that appeared in The St. Louis Globe Democrat back in ‘77, Please let me know. It is titled “The Hustle Is On” and it goes into pretty good detail about my tactics, deceptions & successes of hustling pool for many a year. It appeared on Dec. 26 and the very next day they ran an article all about St. Louie, Louie. It was titled “He’s No Hustler” It was intended to show the contrast of the different types of Pool Players back then. Their ambitions, goals and how they got to where they were. I have had this article hanging in our family room for the last 15 years and was getting tired of seeing it. A good friend of mine, Terry Huelsman, (who owns the pool room I now play in) said he would like to hang it up in his room. When I took it down to give it to him, both my kids had a fit. They said it was something that all there friends enjoyed reading when first coming into our home.
I had it Professionally Reproduced at a local Reprographic company.
Without my knowledge or permission, my 18 year old Daughter put it up for sale on Ebay and sold 12 copies in two weeks for $175 a piece. I later found out that it was being sold to people with nice recreation rooms in their homes and also to poolroom & bar owners. The Avatar photo shown here on azbilliards is from the original full page article.
My accountant had a fit when he saw the entries in my PayPal account because I am only supposed to use it for paying commissions to my Reps. He also told me to call my lawyer and get a current copy write. What upset me the most is that it is supposed to be combined with the accompanied article about Louie to make any sense and I think it only right to include Louie. I thought. I was never very well known (that was the whole idea) and for good reason. I didn’t think there was any market for this article because of that. I was wrong. I am having some limited professional copies made with the new copy writes and Buddy Hall (a great friend of mine since Johnston City when we were both 19) is also adding his endorsement and some comments along with his signature.

TY & GL
 
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Great reading!!! Too bad I don't travel to STL anymore... I used to be there at least once a month for a few days on business.
 
OldHasBeen said:
I was never very well known (that was the whole idea) and for good reason.
TY & GL


Great story and you're really an entertaining storyteller. The quote that I left of yours above, was what it was about back then. Guys didn't want to be known, you wanted to be able to fly in and out anywhere underneath the radar. It was getting into "character" and acting a part as well as dressing and acting like a geek. It was all part of the game. Don't you think that today's young player with all of the tournaments that are going on which they want to get into has robbed them of all this. Their attitude also seems different in that they WANT to be known and recognized as the fastest gun in town which forces them to give the weight away when they play. They don't have the art of woofing and haggling down to where they're getting the last two, nor the ego to allow it. Hell, that was part of the fun...getting the last two when you knew damn well you could be GIVING the last three. If tournaments and television didn't make players so recognizable, there are a few young men out there now that would be able to pull it off just great and make a killing, and maybe they do, I'm just not aware of it. But I know who I'd like to be backing just on looks alone and their ability to shoot.
 
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