Ginacue pleads guilty

Just your opinion as well, Dave. No "fact" to it. Your taste buds are yours alone. There are as many people smoking non Cubans and loving them as there are die hard CC affectionados.

Sure, many of those you may be able to equate to the guy who gets his new Meucci cue and RAVES how good it plays even though he's only played with 3 cues in his entire life...:rolleyes:

I dont smoke but even I've heard from many that do about the mystique over my 50+ years and plain old common sense tells me there must be something to the Cuban cigar superiority....

Daves experience alone gives him more credit to "fact" regarding that subject than many and I would bet the farm on that one....
 
By your logic, misdemeanour drug use should be legal, then. I mean, it's only a little bit of an illegal substance. Surely, that's better than a lot, right?

The hypocrisy around here is astounding.

Why do you keep comparing this to drugs or anything else. I dont give a shit about drugs or anything else no related to this. You said the demand for ivory will continue becauze of people like Bava who love the feel & hit of ivory. I claim BS because there is still plenty of it aroumd the states that is preban and legal. We arent furthering the poaching or any of the new ivory issues.
 
Furthermore.. they go after the people with no way to defend themselves except court, which could break most people financially. So the real problem in this case IS the people with guns, in AFRICA. There is plenty of legal ivory, pre-ban, pre-date whatever you want to call it. There is also no reason to inflict financial losses to people who collected LEGALLY obtained pieces.

You want to stop poaching... make it an immediate death sentence to be carried out and filmed at the scene of apprehension. Its that easy. Hang them, firing squad, whatever.. and leave them hanging in the desert as food for the animals they want to kill.

You need to kill more poachers till their decline is more rapid than the elephants.

JV

OR....harvest the ivory from legal culls and FLOOD the world market with so much ivory that it becomes cheap and meaningless. After all the only value in things like this is in the intrinsic "rarity".

When the price is so low that it makes no sense for people to risk their lives and freedom trafficking in it then the poaching will stop and the elephant population can thrive in a managed way.

And of course, as has been suggested by many, the majority of the profits from those ivory sales should go to the conservation and protection of the elephants.

I also read something recently that scientists have figured out how to make 3d printed rhino horn that is genetically identical to the real thing and they plan to flood the market with it to protect living rhinos. Would be great if they could do the same with elephant ivory.
 
Just your opinion as well, Dave. No "fact" to it. Your taste buds are yours alone. There are as many people smoking non Cubans and loving them as there are die hard CC affectionados.

I understand the facts clearly. I keep a few Dominicans and flavored cigars around for all my female and light weight smoking friends. They seem to gravitate to that side pretty heavy. Stop by sometime and I'll set you up with a good Acid cigar and we can blow smoke and solve some of the worlds problems.
 
I understand the facts clearly. I keep a few Dominicans and flavored cigars around for all my female and light weight smoking friends. They seem to gravitate to that side pretty heavy. Stop by sometime and I'll set you up with a good Acid cigar and we can blow smoke and solve some of the worlds problems.

O god. :rotflmao1::rotflmao1:
 
Ivory

John is right. The value of ivory is market driven. Conceptually, It's an easy fix, the extremists would rather burn confiscated ivory which just pushes up the price. The patients are running the asylum!!!

Mark Griffin


OR....harvest the ivory from legal culls and FLOOD the world market with so much ivory that it becomes cheap and meaningless. After all the only value in things like this is in the intrinsic "rarity".

When the price is so low that it makes no sense for people to risk their lives and freedom trafficking in it then the poaching will stop and the elephant population can thrive in a managed way.

And of course, as has been suggested by many, the majority of the profits from those ivory sales should go to the conservation and protection of the elephants.

I also read something recently that scientists have figured out how to make 3d printed rhino horn that is genetically identical to the real thing and they plan to flood the market with it to protect living rhinos. Would be great if they could do the same with elephant ivory.
 
I understand the facts clearly. I keep a few Dominicans and flavored cigars around for all my female and light weight smoking friends. They seem to gravitate to that side pretty heavy. Stop by sometime and I'll set you up with a good Acid cigar and we can blow smoke and solve some of the worlds problems.
I will fly over and we smoke together, never smoke before but sounds cool to talk we you:thumbup:
Ralf
Still waiting a reply to my last mail:frown:
 
Ivory cues Dead ??

Well, wow. I would say that the ivory era in cue making is pretty much dead at this point.

Interesting to note that the term "pre-ban" has zero legal basis. Thus any pool cue anywhere could be seized if satisfactory documentation is not produced for the ivory it contains.

What about Mammoth Ivory - or can Mammoths also not have babies without the use of their tusks?
 
What about Mammoth Ivory - or can Mammoths also not have babies without the use of their tusks?

my guess is mammoth was included to prevent it from being used as a cover in smuggling and to keep resources from being drained in trying to distinguish one from the other.
 
Huh? I have no idea what you are referring to.

It's a poor attempt at some sarcasm.

Is there a real ivory issue, or is the issue to increase elephant population more to do with increasing the number of elephant babies?

Even if elephants only live a few years, more babies = population growth.


Having Tusks is not a requirement to impregnate elephants.
 
Don't underestimate the governments motives

Gibson Guitars 1

Gibson II

Gibson III

Gibson guitars for supposedly using banned hardwoods.... against the Lacey act that is over 100 years old and retroactive. Meaning if they wanted to they could pull a 1911 Mandolin and ask for its paperwork...

JV
 
Gibson Guitars 1

Gibson II

Gibson III

Gibson guitars for supposedly using banned hardwoods.... against the Lacey act that is over 100 years old and retroactive. Meaning if they wanted to they could pull a 1911 Mandolin and ask for its paperwork...

JV

And....what seems to me to be the craziest part of the Lacey Act...from the way I understood it....anything that is illegal in ANY OTHER COUNTRY concerning endangered species is ALS thO then illegal in the USA even if the USA has no specific law covering that material.

There should be a law that makes any law that broad void. There should be a hierarchy of specificity that governs laws and a definite cutoff to avoid overly broad nonsense that can literally be used like Play Doh to fit any situation where the government wants to charge an individual or company.
 
OR....harvest the ivory from legal culls and FLOOD the world market with so much ivory that it becomes cheap and meaningless. After all the only value in things like this is in the intrinsic "rarity".

When the price is so low that it makes no sense for people to risk their lives and freedom trafficking in it then the poaching will stop and the elephant population can thrive in a managed way.

And of course, as has been suggested by many, the majority of the profits from those ivory sales should go to the conservation and protection of the elephants.

I also read something recently that scientists have figured out how to make 3d printed rhino horn that is genetically identical to the real thing and they plan to flood the market with it to protect living rhinos. Would be great if they could do the same with elephant ivory.

John can you find a link to that article?
Pretty fascinating stuff. I know they are working on printing human organs.
 
Found this quickly.

John can you find a link to that article?
Pretty fascinating stuff. I know they are working on printing human organs.

http://www.snopes.com/3d-printed-rhino-horn-developed/

looks like flooding the market isn't actually welcomed among conservation groups.

I do think that additive and subtractive "printing" will eventually be the closest thing to a Star Trek replicator that we will see in our lifetimes.
 
..well then.. that would be awful coming from someone that has indirectly made money off of offering the "best" protection for those high end cues.

So you to have benefitted from the price and cost associated with ivory.

Keep that in mind...

In fact an entire industry was created with high end cues and cue collecting, a lot of people were involved and benefitted... You cannot count the number of people that go to SBE just to buy and sell cues.

JV

Lol, that stretch wouldn't even qualify as a sincere attempt at beginning aerobics.

The "issues" with ivory have been around longer than both of us have been alive. Let's not forget the other industry attributed to the mass execution of elephants for their tusks.....the plastics industry spurred on by the search for an alternative to ivory for billiard balls.

The billiard industry realized the massive devastation and shortage of ivory that was happening and thus Brunswick sponsored a contest to find a substitute material and Bakelite was the result. From there all phenolics we have today were spawned.

As for me, we sell cue protection and make no judgement as to what those cues are made of. The ivory issue is complicated as are all the issues surrounding endangered species. It's not a "liberal" thing it's a humanity and decency thing. We don't have infinite resources on this planet and we don't have a backup planet.

We humans are very very very very good at destroying our habitat and not so great at managing it wisely. So there is no black/white liberal/conservative only line in the sand on these issues as far as I see it.

I imagine that if all the elephants were gone the the earth would absorb it and the ecosystem would adjust and it would just be another species that once existed and now does not. But that doesn't mean we have to exterminate them for what amounts to satisfaction of our vanity. I mean MUCH much much more than for any practical reason. I don't know of any practical need offhand where ivory has no substitute that isn't as good or better.

So the main driver of ivory demand is vanity in my opinion. And yes I know that there are a few people who "claim" that ivory is the best ferrule material. I would bet those people every bit of money I have ever held in my hands that this opinion cannot be scientifically proven in regards to performance and furthermore that they themselves likely could not tell the difference in hit and identify with certainty which ferrules were ivory and which were not in blind tests.

IF ivory had never been used in pool cues ever then this wouldn't even be a conversation right now. No one is lamenting the loss of ivory use in tennis racquets and golf clubs that I know of. So to me it's about hypocrisy and the fact that you can TRY to blame it on liberals but what you really seem to want when you do that is a free reign to rape the world's resources and if so then that's not conservative, it's just dishonorable and despicable. There are many conservatives who take conservation and stewardship seriously and who see all sides of this complicated issue.
 
What are the odds that the government will show up at SBE and arrest some cuemakers who have product on display.:eek:
LOL
 
Back
Top