Ginacue popped over ivory, hopefully much or all fake.

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skins said:
He turned himself in...He was released on bond...
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No idea who the guy is but supposedly he is a huge player in the high end cue market but he was arrested on " smuggling " also. The guy from Taiwan is Chady Lui. Any of yall familiar with this guy?
 
ShootingArts said:
The ivory can be totally legal when you buy it, it is still a crime to export it from a CITE signee with few exceptions. Ginacue isn't accused of using illegal ivory but of aiding and abetting the illegal export of probably legal ivory.

Forty cue butts or so, Taiwanese nationals I believe, the claim is likely to be that Ernie knew the butts were for export. He probably did. Selling cues one at a time for decades that are then hauled overseas it no doubt seemed like no big deal to sell a bunch. Someone else got burned pretty big over four cues they exported themselves but this is the first time I have even heard of aiding and abetting being applied.

Hu
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Wow, Obama is releasing tens of thousands of drug dealers back onto the street, violent crime is spiking and they are worried about this? A case of misplaced priorities.
 
skins said:
He turned himself in...He was released on bond... That's what the article I read said..
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Well regardless if he turned himself in or they kicked in his door they put the cuffs on him and arrested him - I hate to see this no matter what the specifics are!
 
Ginacue Popped

I wouldn't be a bit surprised that the government setup a sting operation on Ginacue. If this was a sting operation Ernie is in a ton of trouble since the government will have clear evidence showing Ernie knew where the cues were going. What better way to set an example than popping an icon in the cue making industry.
 
Interesting set of circumstances! Given the order and money was spent years ago! The date of purchase is under "dispute" !!!

The verbal contract was well over a year ago to produce 13 cues! The new law created a catch 22!!! Breach of contract if he does not fulfill the order! Vs. Violation of the new law on ivory!

Under either scenario he is in violation of the law for either breach of contract or breach of the law on ivory!

Sounds like he worked diligently to fill the order as quickly as possible to avoid any possible issues and the new owner did not beat the deadline!

Situations like this where no outcome is legal is such a poorly designed law that it often is over turned

Kd

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Since this is seeping out , it happened, ( the person being caught) early May or end of April. The person had Ginas. The cues were legally sold long before the ban. The only thing that makes sense is that the person caught must have denied ownership and knowledge of content...blah blah.
 
skins said:
Pre ban, Legal, 1000 year old, etc..it don't matter. In California as of the beginning of July you can't sell pretty much anything with ivory in it period. You can't ship anything with ivory out of nor into California either...
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Yes, but if Ernie sold cues with pre-ban Ivory and the entire transaction took place in California its a different story. Unless of course he conspired to export which apparently is the charge.
 
You'd think he'd make it a priority to get an $80,000 order through the window.
 
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PhilosopherKing said:
You'd think he'd make it a priority to get an $80,000 order through the window.
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13 cues is a lot of work and glue and woods need to set! Of course he could sacrifice quality for speed!

But then you would be the first to complain about such poorly made cues if he did "slap" them together and make the" window"

Kd

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bdorman said:
I've warned AZers about this in nearly every "Ivory Ban" thread. The government doesn't care if you're innocent or guilty. They just want the big headline that tells the public "we're doing our job."

Exactly, how correct this statement is. But you forgot a line. ( " Now we need more tax money and bureaucrats to do a better job")
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The public disclosure of the new law did not allow sufficient time before going into effect and created a situation where citizens are instantly in violation of the law as soon as the law went into effect!

Legislation did not account for the contractual obligations and time of completion adequately!

A decent lawyer should be able to articulate the dilemma and get him off!

Kd

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CJH said:
Yes, but if Ernie sold cues with pre-ban Ivory and the entire transaction took place in California its a different story. Unless of course he conspired to export which apparently is the charge.
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It went down IN Cali and the buyer tried to take them out of the country..Either way you can't sell ANYTHING with ivory in it in Cali period as of early July.
 
alstl said:
Wow, Obama is releasing tens of thousands of drug dealers back onto the street, violent crime is spiking and they are worried about this? A case of misplaced priorities.
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Not if you're a prosecutor who's Performance Review is in three months.
 
As per what I read on the book of faces, it was unclear exactly how this all went down but what it did say is the Taiwanese guy Lui was arrested immediately following SBE, which of course was in April ( well before the ban took effect ). So there may be more to this story than what we've heard as of yet?????
 
Who knows?

Way too many varaibles and unknowns.

Written contract/purchase order?
date of order
payment schedule
completion date
pre-ban (legally acquired ivory)
delivery date
delivery location
date of alleged attempted export
any knowledge (actual or imputed) on Ernie's part

Was this Liu guy arrested in April and flipped by Feds
Did they have him wired to get Ernie in a conspiracy
entrapment?

We've all seen law and order more than once


Easy to jump to conclusions, hopefully facts will come to light and Ernie will be exonerated

Anyway, seems like dark clouds, not only on the horizon, but directly overhead.

I'll just keep the cues I have with their ivory and only travel a few miles to the local hall or downstairs to my basement table.

I'm even reluctant at this point to ask my cue maker for a letter or certification of some sort that my cues contain legally acquired ivory.

It appears that Ernie sold the cues to this guy in California

"Under Federal law, you can sell your African elephant ivory within your state (intrastate commerce) if you can demonstrate that your ivory was lawfully imported prior to the date that the African elephant was listed in CITES Appendix I (January 18, 1990). This documentation could be in the form of a CITES pre-Convention certificate, a datable photo, a dated letter or other document referring to the item, or other evidence."

So I guess issue becomes did Ernie knowingly conspire to export, and/or was it legit ivory.




What a mess!
 
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SSach said:
How can they prove that Ernie is using illegal ivory. He has been making cues for a good amount of time and has had stock forever. If he can prove that the ivory was legal, what charges can they come with?

This does make everyone (cuemaker and collectors) rethink high-end cues with Ivory.

Wishing Ernie all the best! Although I see this being an expensive endeavor. Hopefully some of his past clients are lawyers and are able to help out.
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it has nothing to do with illegal or legal ivory.............. you cannot ship it out of the country............

Kim
 
This sucks and a huge turn off to owning such a material.

I live in California and can anyone tell me if I can get in trouble if i get pulled over with an ivory cue? Knowing the police I will assume they will want to check what is in the cue case since it looks like something suspicious for those not in the know.

What if i drove to a tournament in vegas?
 
Cork a baseball bat and hide the cue inside and put it in a bat bag! Customs would never know.

Kd

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