Good Enough
- Thread starter lfigueroa
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pooltchr said:
Thanks for the complimentary words, Steve.
You are so right about playing a pro and receiving the revelation that there is a sea of difference yet to travel for most of us (had a chance to play Grady for three hours a few weeks ago :-o
Lou Figueroa
Last edited:
Lou,
This is one of the best threads I have ever seen on this or any other forum regarding the elements of being a really good player. Your observations seem to be right on and should help everyone who reads them. I think all could agree that there is no one-size-fits-all combination of attributes and that all of the top players arrive at their levels via a "fingerprint" unique set of skills, mindsets, and circumstances.
I also enjoyed meeting you at the Gulfport event.
This is one of the best threads I have ever seen on this or any other forum regarding the elements of being a really good player. Your observations seem to be right on and should help everyone who reads them. I think all could agree that there is no one-size-fits-all combination of attributes and that all of the top players arrive at their levels via a "fingerprint" unique set of skills, mindsets, and circumstances.
I also enjoyed meeting you at the Gulfport event.
lfigueroa said:
tighten them pockets up!!! sounds like someone has been playing on a table with buckets
Scott Lee said:
or a little subconscious adjustment to get a little more or less speed on the cue ball. doesn't really mean there's a stroke problem
lfigueroa said:
Yep, that is kinda what I was saying earlier. How your emotional association " colors" your perception of your actual performance. If you are playing someone who will always give you a minimum of 4 innings to win, your not required to really play your best game. You can get away with a lot of mistakes and get very lazy and complacent.
About your comments on memory- I absolutely agree. I have introduced a good number of players to the game, and have helped beginner players improve. One of the things I really stress from day one is to ALWAYS have a plan and VISUALIZE! Develpoing this process is SO critical! It takes a tremendous amount of time off the learning curve.
Even if I am dealing with a player who can't run 2 balls, I make them start with a very simple cut shot and BEFORE they even think about shooting, I make them stand ( before getting into the stance) and aim the shot, picture the cueball moving toward the OB, striking the OB, the OB moving toward the pocket, and the line of the cueball off the OB.
I make them play this as a movie in their head BEFORE they shoot. THEN get down and shoot the shot. How did the mental picture match up with the actual results? THIS is where you can make real progress very quickly. You will actually learn more by missing in this way, than when you are successful! You are attempting to do something very specific. At this point you will either adjust your actions ( your aim, your stroke, etc) or adjust your mental image so that they both match up to get the desired results.
I look at it as a file cabinet in your head. In order to become a good player, you must fill the file cabinet with correct mental images. The more you do this the more automatic it becomes. This is why just grabbing a chair and watching a match between good players helps. You get to see successful shotmaking and the lines of the cueball coming off the OB. You are storing this info in your mental file cabinet. It is almost like cheating! You get to fill up your mental images without even doing the work!
Once you have enough of these files in place, you will notice that there will be times when you have a hard time visualizing the whole shot. You know what you would like to happen, but your brain is just not giving you the mental picture, or it is very fuzzy. STOP! There may be a good reason! Sometimes that cueball line is not possible from this exact position( or at least you have not performed it successfully enough). Either way, it may be a good idea to evaluate the situation and look at other options. If you go ahead and shoot it without a clear mental image your chance of success goes down very dramatically!.
I do not believe that anyone can become a very good player without stocking up on clear mental image files. Mental visualization is a very critical skill to play at a high level.
If anyone has not done so, start the process immediately and do not rush it! Take the time alone on a table , and mark the position of the CB and OB and keep setting them up in the same position. Take the time to develop the mental picture. Do not shoot untill you have it. It may take a bit of time at first, but it will become faster and easier very quickly. Keep doing the process untill they match up, then do another shot in the same way, etc, etc.
Jw
When I introduce students to the concept of visualization, I will set up a reletively simple cut shot, and tell them to visualize EVERYTHING about the shot they are about to attempt. When they tell me they are ready, I hold a sheet of paper in front of the object ball, and tell them to shoot it. They usually miss. Then I do the same drill again, explaining that everything means everything, including where their bridge hand will be on the table, the aiming line, and the path of both balls. Once they know what is going to happen, they usually do much better on the second attempt.
Steve
Steve
shinobi said:
It's a pretty good demonstration of just how important visualization can be. Students learn that they are able to make simple shots, even when they can't see the object ball, if their visualization skills are strong enough.
I usually make it clear that it is just a demonstration, and should probably not be attempted during actual competition.
Steve
Excellent thread, kudos to all who have contributed! Reminds me why I love this site so much.
While warming up before league last week I noticed that several shots weren't going in as cleanly as I would like but I said to myself "It's OK, it still went." After a lot of thinking about my game recently & reading this I believe I can see why my game has gone downhill in the last few weeks.
Yes, I've had some off-table things that have stopped me focusing properly but I'm convinced it's the "good enough" attitude that has hurt me. Now I can't wait until Wednesday so I can get out there & work at fixing the problem!
Thanks to all who've posted on this one!
While warming up before league last week I noticed that several shots weren't going in as cleanly as I would like but I said to myself "It's OK, it still went." After a lot of thinking about my game recently & reading this I believe I can see why my game has gone downhill in the last few weeks.
Yes, I've had some off-table things that have stopped me focusing properly but I'm convinced it's the "good enough" attitude that has hurt me. Now I can't wait until Wednesday so I can get out there & work at fixing the problem!
Thanks to all who've posted on this one!
Well, tonight (Wednesday) was the end of season tournament for one of the leagues I play in. I went there tonight with the attitude that I would give every single shot my fullest attention & concentration, and not fall into the casual routine that I'm convinced has cost me so many games recently.
It was only a 16 player field but I won the thing losing just 2 racks on the way. I can honestly say it was some of the best pool I'd played in a long time. One guy even said to me he felt he couldn't afford to miss one shot against me!
I know this wasn't a big event but damn, it felt good! It's certainly given me a good confidence boost to work from. And I'm convinced that reading this thread played a huge part in my playing better, so once again, thanks to all who've posted for your inspiration!
It was only a 16 player field but I won the thing losing just 2 racks on the way. I can honestly say it was some of the best pool I'd played in a long time. One guy even said to me he felt he couldn't afford to miss one shot against me!
I know this wasn't a big event but damn, it felt good! It's certainly given me a good confidence boost to work from. And I'm convinced that reading this thread played a huge part in my playing better, so once again, thanks to all who've posted for your inspiration!
Back in the 1950's when I started playing pool I was lucky and unlucky to have a Dad that had been a road player in the mid 1920's to 1939. He taught me how to make balls and play position. He taught me English and how important table speed was. After showing me how to hold the cue, he never taught me the basics, like stance, grip, not moving your head until the OB dropped. Once he saw that I could run a rack and set up a break shot and that I had some natural, he turned his attention on teaching me how to gamble and hustle. This is one reason I feel that being very good in any sport doesn't automatically make you a good teacher. Don't get me wrong; what he taught me made me a lot of money over the years.
Once he turned me loose to learn the rest of the game on my own, I improved from a C to a B player with in a year or less. But when I saw that getting any better than that would take hard work and practice, my progress slowed to a snails pace. At that point all my pool energy went on how to make money and develop hustles. I figured I was "good enough" at that point.
The game in the poolrooms was 14.1 back then. The game in the bars was 8-ball. I knew enough whom NOT to play, and if I did get trapped with a better player I got out of the game as soon as possible. To me pool was all about making money. To this day I can't understand why a lot of players think you?re a "nit" because you won't donate to a better player. To me they are the better players and are Po because they can't trap you.
Two other reasons I feel I never became pro level is I fell in love with 3-cushion billiards for about five years and played that 90% of the time. I stopped playing 14.1. I had become an A- player by then. The second reason is in 1986 the Color of Money came out, and the explosion of 9-ball followed it. I hated 9-ball and still do. When I saw all the money being gambled on 9-ball by average and sub-average players I jumped on the 9-ball bandwagon too. When the fad wore off for most of the COM players/movie goers, I went back to 3-cushion. But that had dried up in my area too. No one wanted to gamble for anymore than time and a few bucks unless they were champions. That's when I turned almost all my attention to 8-ball on a bar box. I could beat most all but the very best a good percentage of the time. Money was rolling in again, and that was "GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. Johnnyt
Once he turned me loose to learn the rest of the game on my own, I improved from a C to a B player with in a year or less. But when I saw that getting any better than that would take hard work and practice, my progress slowed to a snails pace. At that point all my pool energy went on how to make money and develop hustles. I figured I was "good enough" at that point.
The game in the poolrooms was 14.1 back then. The game in the bars was 8-ball. I knew enough whom NOT to play, and if I did get trapped with a better player I got out of the game as soon as possible. To me pool was all about making money. To this day I can't understand why a lot of players think you?re a "nit" because you won't donate to a better player. To me they are the better players and are Po because they can't trap you.
Two other reasons I feel I never became pro level is I fell in love with 3-cushion billiards for about five years and played that 90% of the time. I stopped playing 14.1. I had become an A- player by then. The second reason is in 1986 the Color of Money came out, and the explosion of 9-ball followed it. I hated 9-ball and still do. When I saw all the money being gambled on 9-ball by average and sub-average players I jumped on the 9-ball bandwagon too. When the fad wore off for most of the COM players/movie goers, I went back to 3-cushion. But that had dried up in my area too. No one wanted to gamble for anymore than time and a few bucks unless they were champions. That's when I turned almost all my attention to 8-ball on a bar box. I could beat most all but the very best a good percentage of the time. Money was rolling in again, and that was "GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. Johnnyt
poolplayer2093 said:
lol.
GC with double shims, and two-year old cloth. If you hit the rail or the wrong side of the pocket, the ball doesn't go.
Sooo, it sounds to me like someone isn't very good at guessing games and shouldn't keep their guesses, bad as they are, to themselves ;-)
Lou Figueroa
Lots of great comments on this thread. Especially Lou's first observation and sjm's contribution on conceptualization and the mental aspect.
One opinion that I'd like to contribute is that while the 'stroke' is important, I think the capability to aim for the various shots accurately supercedes it by a significant margin.
Both are needed of course. An appropriate metaphor might be that the stroke is the pedals and the aim is the wheels of a bicycle. Take the wheels off and you can't go anywhere, take the pedals off and you can still get where you going, just with a little less power and control.
The biggest thing I've learned in billiards, and it took me 15+ years and a lot of frustration, is that I assumed my aim was much more accurate than it really was and hence I falsely accused my stroke of being the cause of nearly all misses. I know there are a great many players still making this error in determining the cause of their misses.
Yes, the stroke can be the cause, but I think it is more likely to be so when one is in the habit of aligning lazily / inaccurately often, in which case swooping and bridge hand movements become a staple of the player's stroke technique.
Work on a consistant straight stoke does have the advantage of forcing the player to align with more precision. So I think a lot of stroke training has its greatest benefit in that it forces a player to pre-align with greater accuracy. Most players are quite capable of stroking straight enough to make most shots with reasonable accuracy, however, most players don't align with near that same degree of accuracy. Hence they post-align, meaning they change their alignment during the stroke via swooping or bridge hand drift during the stroke such that they get closer to the required shot line.
Colin
One opinion that I'd like to contribute is that while the 'stroke' is important, I think the capability to aim for the various shots accurately supercedes it by a significant margin.
Both are needed of course. An appropriate metaphor might be that the stroke is the pedals and the aim is the wheels of a bicycle. Take the wheels off and you can't go anywhere, take the pedals off and you can still get where you going, just with a little less power and control.
The biggest thing I've learned in billiards, and it took me 15+ years and a lot of frustration, is that I assumed my aim was much more accurate than it really was and hence I falsely accused my stroke of being the cause of nearly all misses. I know there are a great many players still making this error in determining the cause of their misses.
Yes, the stroke can be the cause, but I think it is more likely to be so when one is in the habit of aligning lazily / inaccurately often, in which case swooping and bridge hand movements become a staple of the player's stroke technique.
Work on a consistant straight stoke does have the advantage of forcing the player to align with more precision. So I think a lot of stroke training has its greatest benefit in that it forces a player to pre-align with greater accuracy. Most players are quite capable of stroking straight enough to make most shots with reasonable accuracy, however, most players don't align with near that same degree of accuracy. Hence they post-align, meaning they change their alignment during the stroke via swooping or bridge hand drift during the stroke such that they get closer to the required shot line.
Colin
lfigueroa said:
Like Ronnie Allen used to say in Johnston City, late 60's to early 70's.."Whitey Never Lies".