Good for the real HER…..

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Island Drive said:
Jason Shaw.... Quote.
MR 40+ minute interview, of a day in his life.

That's what Social Media is for ''to disrespect people''.

I'm surprised your surprised, having commented on the Shaw quote/Thread already.
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That's his opinion on the purpose of social media... It is certainly one way that we are led to use it. To poke hate, or push narratives, or have that hate and those narratives instilled in us... rather handily for those that shape these narratives, they also have a visible depiction of the data that unfolds. Nothing has damaged or divided people more than the voice uneducated idiots are given through such platforms.
 
Flakeandrun said:
That's his opinion on the purpose of social media... It is certainly one way that we are led to use it. To poke hate, or push narratives, or have that hate and those narratives instilled in us... rather handily for those that shape these narratives, they also have a visible depiction of the data that unfolds. Nothing has damaged or divided people more than the voice uneducated idiots are given through such platforms.
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The biggest problem is the constant need for some to dehumanize people in order to make a point.

I find the discussion to be valid and there’s a perfectly acceptable argument as to the advantages of being born and raised a male. Physical advantages such as testosterone etc.

But look at the thread title. “Real HER”. To dehumanize the other person who is simply playing within the rules provided to them. Yet op and others didn’t take issue with the tournament directors or those rules. They took issue with the person.

Because it was never about what’s fair or not. It was always about how much they hated the woman for simply existing and playing in a tournament that welcomed and allowed her to play. When the discussion shouldn’t have been about her participation but the premise of her participation and how can that be handled in a more balanced manner.
 
Bishop said:
The biggest problem is the constant need for some to dehumanize people in order to make a point.

I find the discussion to be valid and there’s a perfectly acceptable argument as to the advantages of being born and raised a male. Physical advantages such as testosterone etc.

But look at the thread title. “Real HER”. To dehumanize the other person who is simply playing within the rules provided to them. Yet op and others didn’t take issue with the tournament directors or those rules. They took issue with the person.

Because it was never about what’s fair or not. It was always about how much they hated the woman for simply existing and playing in a tournament that welcomed and allowed her to play. When the discussion shouldn’t have been about her participation but the premise of her participation and how can that be handled in a more balanced manner.
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Well put.
 
Flakeandrun said:
That's his opinion on the purpose of social media... It is certainly one way that we are led to use it. To poke hate, or push narratives, or have that hate and those narratives instilled in us... rather handily for those that shape these narratives, they also have a visible depiction of the data that unfolds. Nothing has damaged or divided people more than the voice uneducated idiots are given through such platforms.
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I would actually posit that to some degree, the supposedly "educated" idiots who have attempted to use social media to push censorship, socially engineer those that they view as opposition out of existence, and cause mass psychosis, have done far more damage to society as a whole.
 
j2pac said:
I would actually posit that to some degree, the supposedly "educated" idiots who have attempted to use social media to push censorship, socially engineer those that they view as opposition out of existence, and cause mass psychosis, have done far more damage to society as a whole.
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I never inquired about his level of education but a friend of mine that read on a second or third grade level was a close observer of animals including the human animal. His understanding surpassed that of many well educated people, some with degrees in psychology. A simple man, it was a waste of time to try to blow a stream of bullshit past him. He saw right through the person trying.

He was one of the finest examples of the difference between intelligent and educated I have ever seen. One of the great ironies I observed, they spent years teaching someone the theories behind farming, some right, some wrong. Then before they gave the person a doctorate they sent them to the lab farm for a few years where Red taught them how to farm and work livestock. It was funny, when they came to the farm with all of their "book learning" they couldn't function as well as a ten or twelve year old farm boy. Odds are they would have been killed or badly injured before they knew their way around a farm without Red there.

I learned there was intelligent and there was educated. The two aren't always one and the same and I have met many a person educated beyond their intelligence. Damn, I miss my old friend!

Hu
 
j2pac said:
I would actually posit that to some degree, the supposedly "educated" idiots who have attempted to use social media to push censorship, socially engineer those that they view as opposition out of existence, and cause mass psychosis, have done far more damage to society as a whole.
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I wouldn't disagree with that.
 
ShootingArts said:
I never inquired about his level of education but a friend of mine that read on a second or third grade level was a close observer of animals including the human animal. His understanding surpassed that of many well educated people, some with degrees in psychology. A simple man, it was a waste of time to try to blow a stream of bullshit past him. He saw right through the person trying.

He was one of the finest examples of the difference between intelligent and educated I have ever seen. One of the great ironies I observed, they spent years teaching someone the theories behind farming, some right, some wrong. Then before they gave the person a doctorate they sent them to the lab farm for a few years where Red taught them how to farm and work livestock. It was funny, when they came to the farm with all of their "book learning" they couldn't function as well as a ten or twelve year old farm boy. Odds are they would have been killed or badly injured before they knew their way around a farm without Red there.

I learned there was intelligent and there was educated. The two aren't always one and the same and I have met many a person educated beyond their intelligence. Damn, I miss my old friend!

Hu
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Educated (uneducated) is perhaps the wrong word to have used, especially when we can acknowledge the systems that 'educate' us and the capital it costs us to obtain that 'education'. Why National Curriculum exists could be debated for quite some length. Time I can't be bothered to input here. Just turned my stomach earlier catching a glimpse of the discussion. I came here to this forum to learn about a game. Not have my stomach turned lol
 
j2pac said:
My post notwithstanding, I certainly hope that some consensus is reached with regards to these sporting events. Surely you want to be compassionate, while protecting the integrity of womens/mens sports.
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The thing in my mind is that these people made a choice. Few choices don't have some positive and negative aspects. I genuinely don't understand why but it seems that many do a male to female sex change then declare themselves lesbians. If they liked girls before was it really necessary to change sexes?

Nobody is saying these people can't play pool. What is being questioned is how fair it is to allow them to play with women. I don't think it is fair for someone to make a voluntary choice then force women to compete with them. No question that even when they have transitioned as far as they can, it isn't a complete transition. That is the problem in a nutshell, they are not true women.

If the day ever comes when they can have a full examination and the doctor can't tell if they were born a man or woman my objections might drop, at least until a 6'6" amazon wants to play with the women.

There was a woman runner from Africa some years ago. She was barred from the olympics and similar competitions, too high of testosterone levels. She had to submit to a very detailed physical where they found that she was a true hermaphrodite. She had no external male organs.

Aside from her dreams of competing, this turned her personal life upside down. I think it was a few years later that it was ruled that she could compete when she could get testosterone levels low enough to be within the range for all women competing. I don't know that this was fair but it was the ruling of the sanctioning body.

Hu
 
Kim Bye said:
I understand that in some sport if you're male or female makes a big difference, but does this biological difference make a difference in sports like pool and dart? My initial thoughts is that it doesn't, but at elite level every little thing counts, so I might be wrong.
It would be interesting to hear what a female elite player think about the situation.
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Evolutionary psychology theorizes that males in general want to attract as many females as possible. In order to do so they have to 1) be able to gather food, resources and protection for their offspring and 2) show the females that they are fit (in terms of evolutionary fitness). If you excel at something you can do both 1 and 2.

Males can reproduce daily, if they manage to attract enough females. Females only once every 9 months. Females have to choose a male that is most fit to take care and protect the offspring. They rather choose one that is fit. So males that excel at things have a lot of offspring (selection). Over time males that thrive to excel have an evolutionary advantage.

This is, according to theory, is why men need to excel at things more than women. Research shows that in art and music, men produce more art and songs than women. Theory says it's like showing your feathers: look, women, how talented I am. Let's mate 😃
 
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Bishop said:
The biggest problem is the constant need for some to dehumanize people in order to make a point.

I find the discussion to be valid and there’s a perfectly acceptable argument as to the advantages of being born and raised a male. Physical advantages such as testosterone etc.

But look at the thread title. “Real HER”. To dehumanize the other person who is simply playing within the rules provided to them. Yet op and others didn’t take issue with the tournament directors or those rules. They took issue with the person.

Because it was never about what’s fair or not. It was always about how much they hated the woman for simply existing and playing in a tournament that welcomed and allowed her to play. When the discussion shouldn’t have been about her participation but the premise of her participation and how can that be handled in a more balanced manner.
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the promotor would have been thrown into a gauntlet of transphobia and bigotry accusations if they denied haynes. that's just how it is. miss pinches did the right thing here.
 
What’s f$cked about this is you can’t even talk about this on social media without being threatened with jail. It’s crazy.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corn...find-herself-in-jail-over-transphobic-tweets/



A Scottish woman named Marion Millar was recently charged under the Malicious Communications Act — which makes it illegal to send or deliver letters or articles that purposely cause “distress or anxiety” — for posting “transphobic” and “homophobic” tweets in 2019 and 2020. The feminist activist, and mother of two autistic children, faces two years in jail if she’s convicted. Now, it should be noted that even if Millar’s tweets were “transphobic” — a highly expansive concept — putting someone into prison for unsettling speech is authoritarian. In fact, unsettling speech is the kind of expression that most often needs protection. Yet, one of Millar’s offending tweets was reportedly nothing more than a picture of a ribbon representing the suffragette movement.
 
For the couple of posters here who espouse the Trans cause. What about the BIOLOGICAL FEMALES? Do they not have any say, rights, feelings? Women's categories were set up explicitly to allow WOMEN to compete against each other under fair conditions with out MEN! Why do the wishes of a few MALES overrule all other WOMEN? Why do they not matter?
What this is ultimately going to do is destroy Women's sports. There will only be open sports and men will dominate. Women will slowly fade away from sporting activities. Maybe this is the goal.
 
benjaminwah said:
What’s f$cked about this is you can’t even talk about this on social media without being threatened with jail. It’s crazy.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corn...find-herself-in-jail-over-transphobic-tweets/



A Scottish woman named Marion Millar was recently charged under the Malicious Communications Act — which makes it illegal to send or deliver letters or articles that purposely cause “distress or anxiety” — for posting “transphobic” and “homophobic” tweets in 2019 and 2020. The feminist activist, and mother of two autistic children, faces two years in jail if she’s convicted. Now, it should be noted that even if Millar’s tweets were “transphobic” — a highly expansive concept — putting someone into prison for unsettling speech is authoritarian. In fact, unsettling speech is the kind of expression that most often needs protection. Yet, one of Millar’s offending tweets was reportedly nothing more than a picture of a ribbon representing the suffragette movement.
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i wouldnt have thought scottland to be that woke.
 
skogstokig said:
the promotor would have been thrown into a gauntlet of transphobia and bigotry accusations if they denied haynes. that's just how it is. miss pinches did the right thing here.
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That's not her fault. That's the response you get when people are treated like garbage and told they don't belong. The two sides need to come together respectfully and with compassion and a willingness to work towards positive solutions. Simply telling trans people that there's no place for them or dehumanizing them like this thread title doesn't solve anything. Most trans people aren't wanting to harm women or their sport. I agree that the pendulum has swung too far in their response and expectations.

I don't see her decision as a right or wrong thing. I don't begrudge her for not playing and I don't feel that she's wrong to want fair play but personally I would have used it as an opportunity to have a meaningful conversation rather to dismiss someone.

This is what you get with intolerance. These people are treated poorly rather than engaged in meaningful dialogue so get what you described and are met with accusations of transphobia. We don't need two extreme stances. Just better communication and pragmatic solutions.
 
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