Good for the real HER…..

[Bishop]

the promotor would have been thrown into a gauntlet of transphobia and bigotry accusations if they denied haynes. that's just how it is. miss pinches did the right thing here.

That's not her fault. That's the response you get when people are treated like garbage and told they don't belong. The two sides need to come together respectfully and with compassion and a willingness to work towards positive solutions. Simply telling trans people that there's no place for them or dehumanizing them like this thread title doesn't solve anything. Most trans people aren't wanting to harm women or their sport. I agree that the pendulum has swung too far in their response and expectations.

I don't see her decision as a right or wrong thing. I don't begrudge her for not playing and I don't feel that she's wrong to want fair play but personally I would have used it as an opportunity to have a meaningful conversation rather to dismiss someone.

This is what you get with intolerance. These people are treated poorly rather than engaged in meaningful dialogue so get what you described and are met with accusations of transphobia. We don't need two extreme stances. Just better communication and pragmatic solutions.

 

[Bishop]

For the couple of posters here who espouse the Trans cause. What about the BIOLOGICAL FEMALES? Do they not have any say, rights, feelings? Women's categories were set up explicitly to allow WOMEN to compete against each other under fair conditions with out MEN! Why do the wishes of a few MALES overrule all other WOMEN? Why do they not matter?
What this is ultimately going to do is destroy Women's sports. There will only be open sports and men will dominate. Women will slowly fade away from sporting activities. Maybe this is the goal.

First off women do matter. But lets not act like there is some great invasion. We're talking about an extremely small amount of issues around this.

But again, everyone needs to have a productive conversation. Nobody should be marginalized.

 

[benjaminwah]

Instead of dropping out of the finals she should have played and kicked his ass. THAT would have been the best way for that to have been resolved.

 

[skiergd011013]

What’s f$cked about this is you can’t even talk about this on social media without being threatened with jail. It’s crazy.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corn...find-herself-in-jail-over-transphobic-tweets/



A Scottish woman named Marion Millar was recently charged under the Malicious Communications Act — which makes it illegal to send or deliver letters or articles that purposely cause “distress or anxiety” — for posting “transphobic” and “homophobic” tweets in 2019 and 2020. The feminist activist, and mother of two autistic children, faces two years in jail if she’s convicted. Now, it should be noted that even if Millar’s tweets were “transphobic” — a highly expansive concept — putting someone into prison for unsettling speech is authoritarian. In fact, unsettling speech is the kind of expression that most often needs protection. Yet, one of Millar’s offending tweets was reportedly nothing more than a picture of a ribbon representing the suffragette movement.

the further society drifts from the truth, the more it hates those who speak it

 

[Bishop]

Instead of dropping out of the finals she should have played and kicked his ass. THAT would have been the best way for that to have been resolved.

Again, when you shit on people and call them "him" and not "her" you set the groundwork for a response that swings the pendulum to the same extreme in the opposite direction.

So you can't respect what they want to be called then they'll respond by calling you a bigot.

Then nothing gets accomplished.

A little common courtesy and decency would help go a long way rather than underhanded insults and deliberate attempts to devalue people.

 

[Bishop]

the further society drifts from the truth, the more it hates those who speak it

That wording is actually nice. Its called harassment here in the US.

Do you think I can send you threatening letters or harass you? Because I can't.

Even if I inundated your PM's with innocuous memes and pics in a non threatening manner I would be removed from this forum.

But if you want to stop drifting away from the ability to follow people around and harass them please let the mods know so I can spam your inbox.

 

[benjaminwah]

Again, when you shit on people and call them "him" and not "her" you set the groundwork for a response that swings the pendulum to the same extreme in the opposite direction.

So you can't respect what they want to be called then they'll respond by calling you a bigot.

Then nothing gets accomplished.

A little common courtesy and decency would help go a long way rather than underhanded insults and deliberate attempts to devalue people.

No deliberate attempt in my statement, just an opinion on how I wish that scenario would have played out.

Making a big deal out of nothing is how resolvong issues never get anywhere. Reactions like this are more about being able to be offended and play the victim card than about discussing better ways to handle situations for EVERYONE involved.

 

[skogstokig]

That's not her fault. That's the response you get when people are treated like garbage and told they don't belong. The two sides need to come together respectfully and with compassion and a willingness to work towards positive solutions. Simply telling trans people that there's no place for them or dehumanizing them like this thread title doesn't solve anything. Most trans people aren't wanting to harm women or their sport. I agree that the pendulum has swung too far in their response and expectations.

I don't see her decision as a right or wrong thing. I don't begrudge her for not playing and I don't feel that she's wrong to want fair play but personally I would have used it as an opportunity to have a meaningful conversation rather to dismiss someone.

This is what you get with intolerance. These people are treated poorly rather than engaged in meaningful dialogue so get what you described and are met with accusations of transphobia. We don't need two extreme stances. Just better communication and pragmatic solutions.

lynne didn't want to play against someone with an unfair advantage, and did the right thing by conceding. i'm sure that meaningful dialogue has been tried in this case but to no awail, this isn't the first time the matter has come up. haynes is referring to some paragraph in the british law when confronted with the concerns of the female players. it's a mess.

i'm not biting on the NPR stuff, intolerance this or that. this is an infected situation in the female english 8-ball scene, and many of the people cheering or jeering in the video likely have relatives or girlfriends that are trying to compete against haynes. lynne pinches is herself the sister of barry pinches, a snooker tour regular.

 

[Bishop]

lynne didn't want to play against someone with an unfair advantage, and did the right thing by conceding. i'm sure that meaningful dialogue has been tried in this case but to no awail, this isn't the first time the matter has come up. haynes is referring to some paragraph in the british law when confronted with the concerns of the female players. it's a mess.

i'm not biting on the NPR stuff, intolerance this or that. this is an infected situation in the female english 8-ball scene, and many of the people cheering or jeering in the video likely have relatives or girlfriends that are trying to compete against haynes. lynne pinches is herself the sister of barry pinches, a snooker tour regular.

You and I both have no clue what dialogue took place.

The real issue resides within the people who make the rules. Regardless of whether there's backlash one way or the other. They make the rules and the woman participated within those rules.

 

[CaptainBly]

Again, when you shit on people and call them "him" and not "her" you set the groundwork for a response that swings the pendulum to the same extreme in the opposite direction.

So you can't respect what they want to be called then they'll respond by calling you a bigot.

Then nothing gets accomplished.

A little common courtesy and decency would help go a long way rather than underhanded insults and deliberate attempts to devalue people.

OK, lets start with what a Woman and Man are, or at least understood by 99.99999% of the world. You want to be treated with respect and value? What about what you are doing to Women? They matter, a whole lot! You have MEN who want to be referred to and treated as a real woman, they are NOT! It is that simple. Now does this mean they should be treated with disrespect, NO. I think, the biggest issue they have is forcing everyone to deny reality and accept that the MAN is now a woman. When we all know that isn't true. It is a MAN acting or living his life like a woman. However he is not and never will be a Woman.
This is where the discussion should start. Trans people have been around forever, most have never tried to force everyone to believe they were a real woman. Be honest and the conversation can go a lot farther.

 

[SSP]

I understand that in some sport if you're male or female makes a big difference, but does this biological difference make a difference in sports like pool and dart? My initial thoughts is that it doesn't, but at elite level every little thing counts, so I might be wrong.
It would be interesting to hear what a female elite player think about the situation.

pool yes, darts not likely, show me a woman player who can draw the cue ball like Shane or Corey Duel, that is a huge advantage.

 

[benjaminwah]

I saw someone post this
In response to a statement that there is no definitive proof of men having an advantage over women in pool. The question was why do men have such higher Fargo rates then? This was the response-
the Fargo argument per se doesn't work, as Fargo is based on who you've played (to put it overly simply), and most female players haven't played men enough for Fargo rates between genders to be comparable.

Is that true?

 

[SSP]

You and I both have no clue what dialogue took place.

The real issue resides within the people who make the rules. Regardless of whether there's backlash one way or the other. They make the rules and the woman participated within those rules.

So you can't respect what they want to be called then they'll respond by calling you a bigot...... let's test your theory, I want to be called " your lord and master" will you call me that or are you a bigot?

 

[SSP]

Every time this comes up someone posts what you posted.

So, we have 150+yrs of results that have almost no women competing on par with the guys, vs. twenty years of this question.

The results speak for themselves, loudly. Sex makes a difference. Testosterone is linked to aggressiveness.

As for strength, that is only one part off the equation. The accuracy vs. effort is the real difference. The average male is about twice as strong as the average female. This means that a man uses about half the effort on any stroke. It is easier to be very accurate when one uses less effort. Any pool player knows this from their own experience.

sorry, common sense and science not allowed

 

[SSP]

No ones changing the definition of man/woman you’re just ignorant to the difference between gender/sexual identity and sex.

For the record I agree that your born sex plays a role in development and physical advantages into adulthood.

I don’t think shit talking, hate and intolerance is the path to addressing the situation though.

For the record I agree that your born sex plays a role in development and physical advantages into adulthood.......knowing this, explain how a male can be allowed to compete with a female? You admitted there is a physical advantage for the male even if they identify as female, I have 2 grand daughters and they should be allowed to compete in athletics on a level playing field, if that biological male wants to compete he can, IN THE MEN'S DIVISION, He can wear a dress and makeup if he wants to, I don't think there are any rules against it.

 

[ironmaiden]

I'll never bow down to pronouns. Man or woman, male or female, he or she and that's it. I refuse to be a part of someone else's insanity.

 

[skiergd011013]

Again, when you shit on people and call them "him" and not "her" you set the groundwork for a response that swings the pendulum to the same extreme in the opposite direction.

So you can't respect what they want to be called then they'll respond by calling you a bigot.

that is asking people to lie to themselves and to ignore everything they know to be factual. I could identify as a barred owl and want to be called one, and call everyone who refuses to believe it a bigot, but that wont change reality.

 

[Bishop]

No deliberate attempt in my statement, just an opinion on how I wish that scenario would have played out.

Making a big deal out of nothing is how resolvong issues never get anywhere. Reactions like this are more about being able to be offended and play the victim card than about discussing better ways to handle situations for EVERYONE involved.

OK, lets start with what a Woman and Man are, or at least understood by 99.99999% of the world. You want to be treated with respect and value? What about what you are doing to Women? They matter, a whole lot! You have MEN who want to be referred to and treated as a real woman, they are NOT! It is that simple. Now does this mean they should be treated with disrespect, NO. I think, the biggest issue they have is forcing everyone to deny reality and accept that the MAN is now a woman. When we all know that isn't true. It is a MAN acting or living his life like a woman. However he is not and never will be a Woman.
This is where the discussion should start. Trans people have been around forever, most have never tried to force everyone to believe they were a real woman. Be honest and the conversation can go a lot farther.

Again as mentioned previously no one is confused by man vs woman.

What you don’t understand or are ignorant about is gender identity vs born sex.

It boils down to common courtesy.

Asking to be referred to a certain way is no more an attack on you than a buddy asking to be called Bubba or for Richard to be called Dick or for Michael Jordan to be called MJ.

The problem is people’s unwillingness to show a common courtesy because of their own prejudice.

I don’t care if you prefer to be called by your middle name and it’s no more of an inconvenience for me if you identify as a woman and prefer to be called Sarah.

The only thing stopping people like you from calling them their preferred name is your own intolerance to it.

That’s where you start. Fair play and competition is something different altogether.

 

[Bishop]

For the record I agree that your born sex plays a role in development and physical advantages into adulthood.......knowing this, explain how a male can be allowed to compete with a female? You admitted there is a physical advantage for the male even if they identify as female, I have 2 grand daughters and they should be allowed to compete in athletics on a level playing field, if that biological male wants to compete he can, IN THE MEN'S DIVISION, He can wear a dress and makeup if he wants to, I don't think there are any rules against it.

Well I don’t make the rules and the response to being dehumanized was just as far of a pendulum swing.

Trans people are met with intolerance and and denial of who they are. So the response was equally strong.

Now it’s going to be a tougher battle to correct it. Especially with the reality that they’re not treated any better.

 

[Bishop]

that is asking people to lie to themselves and to ignore everything they know to be factual. I could identify as a barred owl and want to be called one, and call everyone who refuses to believe it a bigot, but that wont change reality.

Identify however you like.

See, it wasn’t hard. I didn’t melt nor is my life altered in any way.