Good News for American Pros

[ironman]

I believe that to be true, as the times I have interacted with Tony, he has always impressed me as possessing a lot of work integrity.

My other half -- Mr. Killer Instinct over there on the left in my avatar -- has a stake in professional pool, albeit a small stake. Fortunately, today we enjoy life away from the tournament trail and have put other priorities in life ahead of pool. That may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you look at it.

I am very careful when I do post my pool political opinions that they mirror my counterpart's. In the end, what I think, my opinions, don't really mean squat. It is the professional players' opinions who should be at the forefront, not forum members who have no dog in this fight.

The future of pool needs a change agent. As it is now, there ain't much new blood jumping into American professional cuesports. SOMEBODY like Mark Griffin who has the wherewithal to make something positive happen is a godsend.

The UPA ship, though it's got a good crew on board, isn't making a lot of progress, piggy-backing on independent promoters' tournaments. I applaud their efforts to protect the interests of American players, but you must admit this last fiasco with nobody getting paid is a black eye.

That said, the BCA organization -- not the league -- is the biggest joke of them all. Their lack of investment in professional pool brings us to where we are today.

Tony Robles is one of the good guys, and I know when all the cards are laid out on the table, he will make the right decision for the benefit of the sport. That is the kind of guy he is. God bless professional pool players around the world.

JAM

I repect your opinion on this Jen, but I will disagree to an extent.

It may appear that most on the forums have no "dog in the fight", but, I think we all are in the fight if for no other reason than for the betterment of the game. We all have a lot at stake here and granted there are many who express strong opinions who haven't traveled the road, but they are important.

After all, one of the biggest problems pro pool has is it's lack of audience and that includes each and every one of us at one time or another. If and when MG gets this going, he is going to need to sell every single ticket to this he possibly can for many reasons.

IMO, there has never been a better time or opritunity for pool players of all skill levels come together for a very strong cause.

Just as in football, college programs depend greatly on high school programs and the NFL depends on the college programs. Those programs all depend on the audience and it's markets. Everything has a beginning place and maybe it's time we start here and show America's youg just what we are made of and how much we love it. Without the young, what's the point.

 

[GG11]

I believe that to be true, as the times I have interacted with Tony, he has always impressed me as possessing a lot of work integrity.

My other half -- Mr. Killer Instinct over there on the left in my avatar -- has a stake in professional pool, albeit a small stake. Fortunately, today we enjoy life away from the tournament trail and have put other priorities in life ahead of pool. That may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you look at it.

I am very careful when I do post my pool political opinions that they mirror my counterpart's. In the end, what I think, my opinions, don't really mean squat. It is the professional players' opinions who should be at the forefront, not forum members who have no dog in this fight.

The future of pool needs a change agent. As it is now, there ain't much new blood jumping into American professional cuesports. SOMEBODY like Mark Griffin who has the wherewithal to make something positive happen is a godsend.

The UPA ship, though it's got a good crew on board, isn't making a lot of progress, piggy-backing on independent promoters' tournaments. I applaud their efforts to protect the interests of American players, but you must admit this last fiasco with nobody getting paid is a black eye.

That said, the BCA organization -- not the league -- is the biggest joke of them all. Their lack of investment in professional pool brings us to where we are today.

Tony Robles is one of the good guys, and I know when all the cards are laid out on the table, he will make the right decision for the benefit of the sport. That is the kind of guy he is. God bless professional pool players around the world.

JAM

You're kind words about Tony will be forwarded to him. I promise. Thanks for all you said.

It's a sensitive subject to write about on here with the various opinions stating, "this is the right way and that is the right way" and all the different ways directly and totally affect people I genuine love and respect and want to see succeed and be happy. That is probably why I am so hesitate to completely jump on board any ship that's logo stated at first glance, "I'm God and you're at my mercy. You're gonna wear my shirts, you're gonna do as I say" Harsh or not, Right or Wrong, THAT was my first impression of MG and it scared me. First impression are not foolproof, but they can be damning.

I WANT so badly for this to be a good thing and I really hope it is and I am intently listening to everything you guys who do know him are saying. But in the end, I have to develop my own opinion and it will factor all of my own experiences and all your opinions in.

Thanks again JAM for everything you wrote about Tony. It was very kind of you. One opinion I will express of Tony's is, he thinks you're a sweetheart!

 

[JAM]

I repect your opinion on this Jen, but I will disagree to an extent.

It may appear that most on the forums have no "dog in the fight", but, I think we all are in the fight if for no other reason than for the betterment of the game. We all have a lot at stake here and granted there are many who express strong opinions who haven't traveled the road, but they are important.

After all, one of the biggest problems pro pool has is it's lack of audience and that includes each and every one of us at one time or another. If and when MG gets this going, he is going to need to sell every single ticket to this he possibly can for many reasons.

IMO, there has never been a better time or opritunity for pool players of all skill levels come together for a very strong cause.

Just as in football, college programs depend greatly on high school programs and the NFL depends on the college programs. Those programs all depend on the audience and it's markets. Everything has a beginning place and maybe it's time we start here and show America's youg just what we are made of and how much we love it. Without the young, what's the point.

I hear you and understand your opinion for sure.

I personally do not believe that pool will be elevated as a sport from sales of tickets to tournaments in the beginning.

Before this can be lucrative, professional pool needs to get a little respect, in the words of Rodney Dangerfield, because right now it has none from quite a few in the American pool culture.

If a professional tour can be established, one which has a legitimate ranking system, than maybe the sponsorship monies from non-pool industry sponsors will come forth.

Then pool will be seen on TV in a different light. Seeing the first-place prize of $15,000 at previous BCA Opens is embarassing. The hot dog eating champion gets more money than the winner of the BCA Open to date. I would like to see that change.

The pro players do need to work together collectively to make something happen. I like the idea of a non-player being the administrative part of it. I think this lends itself to a legitimate and fair ranking system, one which is adhered to.

No more hand-picked players, the way current so-called "world championship" dragonian invitationals are handled. If pro players want to compete in future high-profile "world class" professional events, they'll have to earn their way there, like other sports entities.

Pool needs fans, but the ones we got now don't want to pay $10 entry fee to view a match. Some whine and moan at how much money a pool TD makes, and there are others who don't want to pay to see pool live and in person at all. Pro players autograph pool paraphernalia for free at every event I attend, only to see a lot of it for sale in eBay later on.

Even today, most players have to sponsor themselves in challenge matches, unless they are fortunate to get staked. It's pretty expensive to come up with 2-, 3-, and 5,000 bananas to play your heart out and come up on the losing end.

Someday, I'd like to see fans gladly pay $10 to see live professional pool and have it seem like a bargain.

JAM

 

[frankwhite]

You're kind words about Tony will be forwarded to him. I promise. Thanks for all you said.

It's a sensitive subject to write about on here with the various opinions stating, "this is the right way and that is the right way" and all the different ways directly and totally affect people I genuine love and respect and want to see succeed and be happy. That is probably why I am so hesitate to completely jump on board any ship that's logo stated at first glance, "I'm God and you're at my mercy. You're gonna wear my shirts, you're gonna do as I say" Harsh or not, Right or Wrong, THAT was my first impression of MG and it scared me. First impression are not foolproof, but they can be damning.

I WANT so badly for this to be a good thing and I really hope it is and I am intently listening to everything you guys who do know him are saying. But in the end, I have to develop my own opinion and it will factor all of my own experiences and all your opinions in.

Thanks again JAM for everything you wrote about Tony. It was very kind of you. One opinion I will express of Tony's is, he thinks you're a sweetheart!

You go "GG".....Keep the head up and strong. Tell "T" I said, "Whats up dog".....Later
Franco

 

[ironman]

I hear you and understand your opinion for sure.

I personally do not believe that pool will be elevated as a sport from sales of tickets to tournaments in the beginning.

Before this can be lucrative, professional pool needs to get a little respect, in the words of Rodney Dangerfield, because right now it has none from quite a few in the American pool culture.

If a professional tour can be established, one which has a legitimate ranking system, than maybe the sponsorship monies from non-pool industry sponsors will come forth.

Then pool will be seen on TV in a different light. Seeing the first-place prize of $15,000 at previous BCA Opens is embarassing. The hot dog eating champion gets more money than the winner of the BCA Open to date. I would like to see that change.

The pro players do need to work together collectively to make something happen. I like the idea of a non-player being the administrative part of it. I think this lends itself to a legitimate and fair ranking system, one which is adhered to.

No more hand-picked players, the way current so-called "world championship" dragonian invitationals are handled. If pro players want to compete in future high-profile "world class" professional events, they'll have to earn their way there, like other sports entities.

Pool needs fans, but the ones we got now don't want to pay $10 entry fee to view a match. Some whine and moan at how much money a pool TD makes, and there are others who don't want to pay to see pool live and in person at all. Pro players autograph pool paraphernalia for free at every event I attend, only to see a lot of it for sale in eBay later on.

Even today, most players have to sponsor themselves in challenge matches, unless they are fortunate to get staked. It's pretty expensive to come up with 2-, 3-, and 5,000 bananas to play your heart out and come up on the losing end.

Someday, I'd like to see fans gladly pay $10 to see live professional pool and have it seem like a bargain.

JAM

This will not all happen overnight. Not so many years ago soccoer was not a big sport here in the USA and they began with the youngsters and 20 short years later take a look. There are now more soccer fields in the USA than there are Wal Marts. LOL.

I hope this seed is planted before my time here is up.

 

[GG11]

You go "GG".....Keep the head up and strong. Tell "T" I said, "Whats up dog".....Later
Franco

Thanks for the support Frank! <-- another one of the good guys!!

 

[Flex]

Flex,
The proper word to use in describing Mark Griffin's feelings about pool is PASSIONATE. He actually cares about pool and yes he cares about pool players.

His reputation is beyong reproach and what I think he needs now is for people to be happy that he has decided to consider this path and simply wait for the plan to be announced. Discussion is a good thing, but THE PLAN is but an embryo and we can ill afford to insinuate anything negative about Mr. Griffin or his motives. After all there is no basis for any negative comments. He has only done good for pool.

We should be in his corner, talking POSITIVELY about his involvement in pool. Mark is passionate and I could just as easily have used the E word to describe his feelings toward pool.

Let's pull in the same direction.

Let's wait for this new exciting plan of Mark's to unfold.

Let's accentuate the positive and encourage others to do the same ESPECIALLY THE PROFESSIONAL POOL PLAYERS.

I believe that the professional pool players would be doing something very smart by posting their support for Mark Griffin here on this forum.

John Schmidt has already stepped up and done his part.

I hope that the other professional players do their part (AND SPEAK UP NOW) as I believe this forum is far more influential than anyone currently believes.

The things that we say and do have a profound affect across the pool world and it is evident as our written words are reported elsewhere and everywhere.

Best Regards,
JoeyA

Joey,

I respect you and your opinion, and appreciate your taking the time to address the E word. Passionate is a great word, whereas the E word in this context really isn't.

I hope this thing goes forward.

Flex

P.S. On another thread, Mark addressed my question if he was looking for "hustlers" too, and he said he was... More power to him!

 

[JB Cases]

Mr Griffen, no doubt is a man of his word! If he says the cash is there, it's there.

HOWEVER he will be looking to hop on the road to profitability asap IMHO. He's a businessman first and a philanthropist not so close to first.

Disclaimer-I don't know him personally.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that for one to be a philanthropist then someone had to be a businessman first in order to make the money they give away?

Otherwise a person is a volunteer.

I do know Mark personally and his word is gold.

 

[Mark Griffin]

and furthermore. . . .

Just wanted to bump this to the top and see if there are any more comments. I am putting together the "package" and like to see comments from interested parties. It halos me put out the answers to avoid to many unanswered questions.

I know there is almost nothing availabe yet. It is a slow process. It will happen. Am currently looking for venues and dates. we are just finishing the paperwork from the BCAPL national 8-ball event. Then the BCA trade show -might possibly help me in obtaining some sponsorships.

I think everyone wants to say - "Show Me the Money" - and that will bring about cooperation a lot faster than talking about it.

If you have any 'good' locations - please let me know. I prefer small casinos etc. that might be willing to add a lttle bit of money to make this even bigger.

Thanks for your comments in the past and encourage you to make some more.

mark Griffin
markg@playbca.com

 

[kevin s]

Just wanted to bump this to the top and see if there are any more comments.
If you have any 'good' locations - please let me know. I prefer small casinos etc. that might be willing to add a lttle bit of money to make this even bigger.

Thanks for your comments in the past and encourage you to make some more.

mark Griffin
markg@playbca.com

Have you considered joining forces with some of the great tournaments already in place?
The U.S. Open is already a great venue . Could you add to it and make it part of the tour? Also like to include Derby City, Seminole Tour season finale at the Hard Rock Casino in Hollywood,Florida. All the regional tour season finales could be a stop in each part of the country. There is a lot of tournaments being played. Someone needs to unite all these tours without taking away from the regional tour directors paychecks. In my opinion this is the reason for the division. These guys work hard running these events. Reward them by adding to their work. If anyone could unite our sport you can. I don't know your plans. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[smashmouth]

10 footers Mark, 10 footers!!!

 

[av84fun]

Kevin, if I may jump in. Each of those events are profit centers unto themselves. IMHO there is little revenue or profit that would be added to those events by making them "tour stops" just as there is no revenue or profit detracted from events like the BCA or TOC just because they are not tour stops.

In the evolution of sports, there are first too few events...when the sports first emerge...then too many such as when the AFL was created or when hockey first expanded...and then, if the sport survives, just about the right number.

All the while there is a process of the survival of the fittest..where fitness generally equates to money and money generally equates to spectator popularity.

At the present time, it seems to me that there are too many events...although most of them don't pay very much.

If a "tour" emerges that is capable of providing higher payouts, then the players will systematically abandon those which pay less. That is simply the law of the jungle...and of free market economics.

Eventually, the successful become more so and vice versa so that the freee market will effect its own "consolidation" of the industry into just about the right number of events paying just about the right sum of money....or not, in which case the catch-as-catch-can nature of the industry will remain in place.

Regards,
Jim

Have you considered joining forces with some of the great tournaments already in place?
The U.S. Open is already a great venue . Could you add to it and make it part of the tour? Also like to include Derby City, Seminole Tour season finale at the Hard Rock Casino in Hollywood,Florida. All the regional tour season finales could be a stop in each part of the country. There is a lot of tournaments being played. Someone needs to unite all these tours without taking away from the regional tour directors paychecks. In my opinion this is the reason for the division. These guys work hard running these events. Reward them by adding to their work. If anyone could unite our sport you can. I don't know your plans. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[jamesroberts]

10 footers Mark, 10 footers!!!

why?

where would people go to practice for the tour ? ive only been in 1 pool hall that had a 10 ft table

 

[kevin s]

Kevin, if I may jump in. Each of those events are profit centers unto themselves. IMHO there is little revenue or profit that would be added to those events by making them "tour stops" just as there is no revenue or profit detracted from events like the BCA or TOC just because they are not tour stops.

In the evolution of sports, there are first too few events...when the sports first emerge...then too many such as when the AFL was created or when hockey first expanded...and then, if the sport survives, just about the right number.

All the while there is a process of the survival of the fittest..where fitness generally equates to money and money generally equates to spectator popularity.

At the present time, it seems to me that there are too many events...although most of them don't pay very much.

If a "tour" emerges that is capable of providing higher payouts, then the players will systematically abandon those which pay less. That is simply the law of the jungle...and of free market economics.

Eventually, the successful become more so and vice versa so that the freee market will effect its own "consolidation" of the industry into just about the right number of events paying just about the right sum of money....or not, in which case the catch-as-catch-can nature of the industry will remain in place.

Regards,
Jim

Regional tours do make money. The tour director gets paid. The top 2 or 3 finishers in the tournament gets paid. The room owner, if lucky enough, might break even on an event. But there is usually a renewed interest amongst the regular customers. That brings regular business after an event.

I don't want to see any regional tour go away. The Seminole Pro tour adds 25k to the season finale. Image if it had another 25k or more added to the event. Wouldn't that be great.

There is no way any major event makes a quarter profit. I was told by people on the inside that it takes 20k just to rent the space, turn on the lights at the hard rock casino. Thats four days total. Hotels and conference centers don't give those spaces away just because 100 people are going to rent a room. They are very expensive. I don't believe there has ever been enough tickets for admission, concession sales and booth rentals for vendors to break even.

I'm not looking to debate my suggestion or justify it. I feel like Mark is doing this for many reasons. He loves pool. Imagine if he doubled his BCA league from 60,000 plus to 120,000 nation wide! Because of what he is doing now it has to grow. I don't know his business model or the reason he has taken this burden on his back. I'm sure glad he has!

 

[ShootingArts]

never happen

why?

where would people go to practice for the tour ? ive only been in 1 pool hall that had a 10 ft table

You are right, ten footers will never happen. The nine foot one piece of slate tables are fast and easy to set-up but they are pretty close to the ragged edge of what can be managed so ten footers would almost certainly have to go to a multi-slate design which would involve more set-up and tear down which would involve more time and more rental paid at the big venues. The other issue is just what you note, it is getting harder and harder to find even nine footers locally with the price of floor space being what it is. Too many other things bring in more money per square foot. Local owners aren't going to invest in ten footers unless something changes radically, like doubling or tripling table times.

I play around with a new table maybe being a good idea but it would recognize current realities and be maybe a 4.5x7 foot table with either only four pockets or very tiny side pockets. I wonder how people would receive something like the seven foot Diamond that we have now with only corner pockets? We need to keep the game challenging or make it more challenging while accepting the reality that pool tables are going to be less and less popular with local bar and room owners due to the high cost of square footage and the generally limited return on pool tables.

Hu