For those of you who are 3-cushion enthusiasts, who would you say is the best to ever play the game? Would it be Cuelemans, Hoppe, Sang Lee, Sayginer (sp?), Blomdahl, etc. I find it absoloutely incredible at how accurately these guys are going 3, 4, and 5 cushions. Some of the rail first kick shots they do are just ridiculous. I do understand that most 3-c tables have a set standard to conditions and playability, and once the competitors acknowledge whether the table is playing long or short they make the proper adjustments. In my personal opinion, I think Sang Lee might be the greatest. He played completely by feel and used no systems. But then again, Blomdahl and Sayginer are absoloute monsters at the game. And there are so many others. Never got to see Hoppe play, and I think I saw one match of Cuelemans, but I heard many people say he is the best.
Greatest 3-Cushion Player of All Time?
- Thread starter cuetechasaurus
- Start date
Who knows for sure?
My pick is Cuelemans. I think his record speaks for itself and I believe that years past he won more than anyone. After all the nickname Mr. 100 is one hell of an accomplishment (100 pro tourney wins). I was told that the three cushion rules were changed so the other competitors had some kind of chance to win. It has been said that in long races he was unbeatable. I had a very hard time making my pick for best ever I don't think in a game like this it can be a clear choice...I mean their are to many factors to look at it.
My pick is Cuelemans. I think his record speaks for itself and I believe that years past he won more than anyone. After all the nickname Mr. 100 is one hell of an accomplishment (100 pro tourney wins). I was told that the three cushion rules were changed so the other competitors had some kind of chance to win. It has been said that in long races he was unbeatable. I had a very hard time making my pick for best ever I don't think in a game like this it can be a clear choice...I mean their are to many factors to look at it.
Cueulmans has to be it. To my knowledge, he is the only player to kick everyone's ass at the game with both old and new equipment...as my knowledge of the 3c world is limited to those players who get lots of exposure...could there be anyone bigger? Nope.
For modern players, I like Blomdahl and Danny Sanchez. You can never rule out Semih Sayginer either!
For modern players, I like Blomdahl and Danny Sanchez. You can never rule out Semih Sayginer either!
If we're just talking 3-cushion alone I'd say either Ceuelemans or Blomdahl. Ceuelemans dominated 3C for
the longest time (1962-1986), And again in 2001 but
the standard of the game is higher today with players at a 1.8-2.0 avg. So Blomdahl has 8 world championships in the modern era which is very impressive. Sang Lee, while a great player, only had 1 world champioship title. Sayginer also has 1 or maybe 2 world titles so I wouldn't consider them quite up there as all-time greatest contenders.
Right now Frederic Caudron has taken over as #1 in the world rankings, he's only in his early to mid 30's and is far and away the best balkline player and combined with his #1 ranking in 3C I'd say he may go on to really great things.
One thing I've heard is that the 3C players are very friendly with each other and share their knowledge openly, somethig that you don't see much in pool.
Bobby
the longest time (1962-1986), And again in 2001 but
the standard of the game is higher today with players at a 1.8-2.0 avg. So Blomdahl has 8 world championships in the modern era which is very impressive. Sang Lee, while a great player, only had 1 world champioship title. Sayginer also has 1 or maybe 2 world titles so I wouldn't consider them quite up there as all-time greatest contenders.
Right now Frederic Caudron has taken over as #1 in the world rankings, he's only in his early to mid 30's and is far and away the best balkline player and combined with his #1 ranking in 3C I'd say he may go on to really great things.
One thing I've heard is that the 3C players are very friendly with each other and share their knowledge openly, somethig that you don't see much in pool.
Bobby
eeng168 said:
You do know he passed away two years ago.
Hoppe was the greatest in his era, and no telling how good Worst could have been.
But for my money, I have to take Raymond Ceulemans! He has the most solid stance I have ever seen at any cue game. Second best stance was Harold Worst.
But for my money, I have to take Raymond Ceulemans! He has the most solid stance I have ever seen at any cue game. Second best stance was Harold Worst.
Ceulemans. I would say that he elevated the whole level of play. I saw him set the record at the Las Vegas tournament in 1978. He beat Boston Shorty like a rented mule -- 60-10 -- after Shorty bragged that Ceulemans would never average over 1.0 against American safety play. The Ceulemans scoresheets from that tournament are available at the bottom of http://www.sfbilliards.com/3c/ and the Shorty match is http://www.sfbilliards.com/3c/Ceul02m.gifcuetechasaurus said:
Note that Shorty got to shoot after Ceulemans reached 60. That's because in those matches, the non-breaker gets to shoot an equalizing inning at the end if the breaker wins. The score was 60-8 when Shorty got up for his equalizing break shot needing a run of 52 to tie. Ceulemans averaged 2.3 and Shorty averaged 0.4. So much for safety play.
Blomdahl and others have achieved a higher average of play since then, but I think without Ceulemans leading the way they wouldn't have gone as far. Standing on the shoulders of giants.... I also saw the record for a 60-point game which was set by Blomdahl over Ceulemans 60-31 in 15/14 innings (no equalizing inning). Ceulemans averaged 2.2 and played the part of the mule. That match is still available from Accu-stats (1996 Sang Lee Open).
Another point for Ceulemans is that he won the World Championship in 2001 against all the players that he had helped elevate.
more of my 2 cents
I think I read that Ceulemans has been knighted for playing billiards hows that for promoting the game...Not that this contributes to his stats in billiards but, I think it is a great step for promoting cue sports and more than that a great honor to be recieved by anyone for anything. Please let me know if I am wrong about this one.
I think I read that Ceulemans has been knighted for playing billiards hows that for promoting the game...Not that this contributes to his stats in billiards but, I think it is a great step for promoting cue sports and more than that a great honor to be recieved by anyone for anything. Please let me know if I am wrong about this one.
I reckon it comes down to Blomdahl vs Ceulemans, and I think it's a bit like comparing Tiger to Nicklaus. Tiger has equalled, if not exceeded, the level reached by Nicklaus, but has not sustained that level of excellence for the same period of time that Jack did. So, for now, Jack remains the best ever. I believe that, for very similar, Blomdahl cannot be considered better than Ceulemans, at least not yet.
And so my choice is Raymond Ceulemans. Anyone ever seen Ray's wristwatch with a picture of a billiard table on the face. Awesome!
And so my choice is Raymond Ceulemans. Anyone ever seen Ray's wristwatch with a picture of a billiard table on the face. Awesome!
I admittedly do not know much about 3 cushion. However Robert Byrnes makes some convincing cases for Sang Lee. Furthermore he also argues that Welker Cochran was as good if not better than Willie Hoppe, would put him into the discussion. What do you guys think?
By the way I want to get a 3 cushion video from accu-stats, any suggestions?
By the way I want to get a 3 cushion video from accu-stats, any suggestions?
Cameron Smith said:
Cochran is certainly worthy of being in the discussion. Sang Lee, though a truly magnificent player, comes up a little short of meriting consideration as the best ever, at least in my opinion.
The best three cushion match on Accu-stats, in my opinion, is Sang Lee vs Lou Havermans, in which Sang Lee runs a 15 and a 14 and really shows his very best stuff. The match was played about ten years ago.
my father was an accomplished 3 cushion player in the late 40's (he left me his Martin when he passed) and told me he saw many and played a bunch of the greats back then and before i really knew anything about billiards told me the best he ever saw was Hoppe hands down.
sjm said:
Thanks, I'll throw that one on my list next time Im buying from Accu-Stats. Im thinking the Sang Lee vs Lou Havermans and the classic match they are now selling where Irving Crane runs 150 and out. Should be a great billiards night when it comes in the mail.
All Around Blomdahl
Just to flip-flop the topic here a little, I just wanted to say that if you play Blomdahl some 9 ball you might not like it !
.....About 10 years ago or so, Blomdahl was in Chicago for a world class 3 cushion tournament. One night after tournament play was over, Blomdahl played Marco Marquez some cheap 9 ball just to goof off ( I think it was for 5 a game ) - everybody was sweating it just for the curiosity factor. Well Blomdahl surprised everybody by holding his own and running as many racks as Marco and we all had fun watching it. Blomdahl was even chirping a little saying " Well, I can play a little pool ". It kinda makes you wonder just how good guys like Sayginer and the rest of the billiard champions would have been at pool if they played just pool and not 3 cushion.
PS, I don't think Blomdahl will be mad at me for knocking his 9 ball action ^_^
Just to flip-flop the topic here a little, I just wanted to say that if you play Blomdahl some 9 ball you might not like it !
.....About 10 years ago or so, Blomdahl was in Chicago for a world class 3 cushion tournament. One night after tournament play was over, Blomdahl played Marco Marquez some cheap 9 ball just to goof off ( I think it was for 5 a game ) - everybody was sweating it just for the curiosity factor. Well Blomdahl surprised everybody by holding his own and running as many racks as Marco and we all had fun watching it. Blomdahl was even chirping a little saying " Well, I can play a little pool ". It kinda makes you wonder just how good guys like Sayginer and the rest of the billiard champions would have been at pool if they played just pool and not 3 cushion.
PS, I don't think Blomdahl will be mad at me for knocking his 9 ball action ^_^
I personally think Ray Cuelimans is the best. But 1 thing everybody on here has passed over is the difference in the playing conditions. How good would Hoppe, Worst or any of the other old greats be with todays heated tables. Comparing tables is like comparing apples and oranges. The good players of today. how good would they have been on directional cloth like the IPT is using . That is the type of cloth i grew up on. And i wish i could still do it today. today i only play pool for pleasure. used to gamble on it alot. wise old man once told me that 3 cushion billiards is a gentlemans game. took 25 years of playing it to finally realize it...................mike
Sang lee..................hands down.
maybe caulemans...................................................
blohmdahl (SP) is a mchine though............................................
maybe caulemans...................................................
blohmdahl (SP) is a mchine though............................................
No brainer- Ceulemans...the very best ever. Some talk of Sang Lee, but in my opinion not even close. Don't get me wrong, SL was great and one of the best of his time. He won a single World Championship based on points (impressive), though if I remember correctly the only way for that to happen was if Ceulemans and Blomdahl were to get knocked out early in the final tournament of the system...which I think did happen. Compare that to the fact that Ceulemans dominated the game from the mid 1960s until the 1990s and basically taught the world how to play the game the way it is played now. Guys like Blomdahl and Sang Lee got to start where Ceulemans brought the game for them.
Deno
Deno
