Varner is my favorite player and at his best belongs right up there with these guys. Polls are limited to ten options, however, so I had to make some tough choices.
Greatest American player ever?
- Thread starter PoolBum
- Start date
Varner is my favorite player and at his best belongs right up there with these guys. Polls are limited to ten options, however, so I had to make some tough choices.
after hearing that he refused to play unless the pockets were 5" i don't consider him as great as everyone else seems to
I gotta go with Mosconi, but barely; just because he dominated the sport for the longest run (I know, Irving Crane outlasted him, but when they were contemporaries, Mosconi usually beat him). Greenleaf had moments where he outplayed Mosconi, but Willie wore him out. Surprised no one mentioned either Jimmy Caras or Andrew Ponzi...I would have put them ahead of Mizerak or any of the nine ball players. Those straight pool guys from the pre and post WWII era were truly in a class of their own. Even though the more recent players had great 14.1 games, the round robin tournament schedules back in the '40s and '50s were real grinders and I'm not sure our sport being dominated by 9-ball, banks, etc. is raising our current talent to the same level. If only we had a time machine and could match up Willie Mosconi from 1946 with Earl Strickland from 1992...make it 8 ball or one pocket to split the difference...
If only we had a time machine and could match up Willie Mosconi from 1946 with Earl Strickland from 1992...make it 8 ball or one pocket to split the difference...
I'll say this much about Earl and Willie--I think Willie would have a better chance of beating Earl at 9-ball than Earl would have of beating Willie at straight pool.
Mainly because he is best known as a 3-cushion champion.
Willie Mosconi played better 9 ball then most people think because he was known for straight pool. I saw him play 9 ball and I think he could have beaten anyone.I'm not saying he was the best at 9 ball but he certainly would have given anyone in history a tough time.
Yea, but Mosconi was dominant. He won something like 15 out of 17 world championships at the peak of his career.
Last edited:
I'm not 100% sure, but doesn't Earl have a high run in the 400's in straight pool?
yes I think its 404 or 407? its in the low 400's for sure
Yes, it is reported to be 409. That doesn't by itself mean he has a good shot to beat Mosconi though, IMO.
But did Mosconi ever gamble? No. Willie was undoubtedly one of the most talented and greatest individuals to ever pick up a cue, but he was strictly a tournament player, and ONLY played straight pool. Willie was a tournament champion, but IMO, to be considered the greatest of all time, you have to meet two criteria:
1. A great tournament player AND a great gambler. A great player should have proven themselves in both the main venues of competition in pool - tournaments, and for the cash. The only two on that list that embodied both, and were world class at both, were Wimpy for his era, and Buddy Hall for his. The rest were primarily tournament players (Willie and Earl being the best IMO) who dabbled in gambling, but it wasn't their bread n butter.
2. World class at more than one game. There's A LOT of people on that list who play several games at a world class level, but IMO Wimpy was the only one who would gamble on ALL of them. He'd play 9 ball, one pocket, or straight, all for big money - and he played them ALL at a world class level.
And that is why my vote goes for Wimpy :wink:
Last edited:
I don't think gambling success should be a factor at all. Some people choose not to gamble and excel at pool. "Who is the greatest American pool player ever?" should be who has the most skill in the largest number of games. At his peak, I'm guessing that was Sigel. I missed that whole generation so I'm not even going to vote, but if I were privy to all these candidates' accomplishments, I'm betting it would be Sigel.
I think Harold Worst would gamble at any game. Just ask Jay, I think he can tell you about Worst.
Gambling is absolutely a factor IMO. Some champions choose not to gamble, but some just don't gamble because they just don't do well under that kind of pressure, and don't have the kind of heart that makes a great gambler - and heart is a huge part of what makes a champion, as well as tenacity under pressure. Perfect examply would be Mika, great tournament player...but when it comes down to the cash, he just isn't the same player. Shane on the other hand, can play at the highest gear both in tourneys as well as for the money. That makes him a greater player in my books.
As for it should be whoever has the most skill in the most games, what use is skill if you can't apply it under pressure? How one reacts to pressure is what defines a champion to me, and there is not necessarily more, but definitely a different kind of pressure to gambling. If a champion hasn't proven he can handle that kind of pressure, I don't care how skilled he is.
Pool has always had two arenas where people choose to prove themselves - gambling, and tournaments. To be the considered greatest, I think one should have dominated in both.
Last edited:
Huh? Willie certainly did do his fair share of gambling, and he usually crushed whoever he played, regardless of the game.
Very well said.
I'm not even much of a gambler myself. The only reason I really ever gamble is to get someone to play. So, it's probably a bit ironic that I agree with your assessment of this. However, the reason I think gambling sessions have to be factored in is because it is nearly impossible to determine who the better player is in a short race to 9 (or similar race). I suppose over the course of a long career you could compare tournament records but I think the head-to-head battles are more indicative of who the better player is. That's why I really like the long races.
Now if you compare it to golf, I don't think you would have to consider gambling to determine the better player in golf since the cream actually gets to rise to the top in that sport. Guys get to compete for several hours against the field for up to 4 days. Pro pool players play the equivalent of a 3 hole golf match when they play each other - if you ask me.
Last edited:
1.Harold Worst
2.Eddie Taylor
3.Maybe Jersey Red.
A friend of mine said these where what he thought where the best all around players in his time.