Think I'll tape some solder on one side of an old cue. It should work the same.... and cheaper.
Groundbreaking new cue technology
- Thread starter crappoolguy
- Start date
Think I'll tape some solder on one side of an old cue. It should work the same.... and cheaper.
usefull
Both look like very good products.
Both look like very good products.
Take a look at this video "Gravity cue snooker, billiards & pool cue from gravitycue .com" on youtube and it states the lateral movement is a flaw. Now what Dr.Dave shows in his video this is the way that you apply back hand english and the way I apply it. Its not a swoosh like Buddy Hall's stroke (My hero) but more like a set which is easier IMO. Now this is a fine product if that is the way you shoot but the twisting of the wrist (Johnny Archer who twists on every shot) is not a bad thing and most people do this when they shoot, In fact try doing a long follow thru without twisting your wrist and you will be fighting your natural body movement on every single shot.
I can see where the trainer would help one learn a straight stroke.
I don't think it would be good to twirl, masse, or learn any stroke that is intentionally not straight (the wrist-snappers, swoopers, and windmill strokers), but then that's not what it is designed for. Of course if any of those style players wanted to learn straight then this WOULD be for them.
Feedback is everything when learning, and any tool that provides consistent and noticeable feedback is worth a look imo. As mentioned, the Medicus golf club does provide an interesting learning experience, and this 360 training cue looks to offer a similar learning experience for straight stroking ... with practice. Nothing comes without a price.
Dave
I don't think it would be good to twirl, masse, or learn any stroke that is intentionally not straight (the wrist-snappers, swoopers, and windmill strokers), but then that's not what it is designed for. Of course if any of those style players wanted to learn straight then this WOULD be for them.
Feedback is everything when learning, and any tool that provides consistent and noticeable feedback is worth a look imo. As mentioned, the Medicus golf club does provide an interesting learning experience, and this 360 training cue looks to offer a similar learning experience for straight stroking ... with practice. Nothing comes without a price.
Dave
Steve,
No training aid I'm aware of actually corrects any flaw besides the 3rd Eye Stroke Trainer. Others like The Cue-Track shows you flaws in your stroke but gives no real answers on how to correct your fundamentals, anyone let me know if such a product exsists? The Ultimate Billiards Coach looks like it could help one find their correct body alignment.
I see that the Gravity Cue is indeed a player and they are in works with other cue manufacturers for Snooker and Pool. It's actually not a bad idea, I could see Predator or Lucasi Hybrid jumping all over this.
The cue with a keel seems silly to me: firstly, the weight isn't off-center enough to provide enough correcting torque IMO, and secondly if you hold the cue with the weight not exactly at the bottom, you may end up developing an unwanted tension in your wrist to keep the cue from rotating.
The cue with a spring seems more interesting, but watching the video, it seems designed to punish up/down movements, which really aren't the problem when you stroke. As a result, you may end up introducing shoulder movements in your stroke to compensate, which I think isn't such a good idea. But then I don't know what kind of stroke snooker players train to develop: the few matches I watched on TV seem to indicate snooker players all want a dead straight stroke, both vertically and horizontally. Perhaps their way is different, I don't know, but I wouldn't want that cue to train for pool or billiards.
A neat idea might be a spring-loaded cue that doesn't break vertically but does with very little lateral force, to amplify sideway movements, and a black-dot sort of mark on the top of the shaft to let the player position the spring-loaded joint properly.
Interesting and innovative products nonetheless. Thanks for the links.
The cue with a spring seems more interesting, but watching the video, it seems designed to punish up/down movements, which really aren't the problem when you stroke. As a result, you may end up introducing shoulder movements in your stroke to compensate, which I think isn't such a good idea. But then I don't know what kind of stroke snooker players train to develop: the few matches I watched on TV seem to indicate snooker players all want a dead straight stroke, both vertically and horizontally. Perhaps their way is different, I don't know, but I wouldn't want that cue to train for pool or billiards.
A neat idea might be a spring-loaded cue that doesn't break vertically but does with very little lateral force, to amplify sideway movements, and a black-dot sort of mark on the top of the shaft to let the player position the spring-loaded joint properly.
Interesting and innovative products nonetheless. Thanks for the links.
Gravitycue
Registered
Gravity Cue and the 360 PureCue Action Trainer
Hi All.
My name is Neil Johnson, I am a pro Snooker Coach from England and with the help of a number of experts in their respected fields I have developed the concepts of both the Gravitycue and the 360 PureCue Action Trainer or 360 for short. Both concepts are designed to balance out the imbalances in a player’s action.
We have already had fantastic results with both products and it’s difficult to explain all the benefits in what is the first post I've ever made on a forum but here are the main attributes to these products.
The 360.
The 360 will hold itself together as one unit until the player interferes with it through 360 degrees i.e applies an uneven distribution of forces around its circumference. It is this uneven distribution of forces that stops the player from ever becoming like one unit with what represents the outline of the tool of the trade. The simple fact is we are not designed to wield a straight cue in the most optimum form but by training with the 360 we can get very close by training muscle control through 360 degrees. Initially the cue provides each and every individual player with conscious instant feedback to where the more obvious impurities are in their game and with some practice will train the player’s subconscious/muscle memory into developing a much better, much more functional version of their playing self. Every individual has a unique optimum way of forming themselves round the cue/cue line and the 360 actually guides the player towards this most enviable formula. Please note, there is a big difference between just holding the cue lightly as opposed to staying as connected to the cue as possible without interfering with the cue and its intended line.
With some practice and a reasonably healthy approach to learning, the cue will train the player to cue straighter and smoother, whether the individual cues pretty much on plane or with more of a pendulum/driving action because regardless of the players angle of attack, as long as the players mechanics are in tune with their true natural rhythm the cue will hold up. This automatically means the player has also managed to keep the energy at the all important striking point, running through the core of the cue and therefore generating more economical power.
The 360 is already being used by top Snooker and English 8ball pro players and top World and IBSF Coaches alike. An American pool version is also in the final stages of development, something as a Coach I am personally very exited about.
The Gravity Cue.
Whether they are aware of it or not, all players in all cue sports, including top snooker players, rotate their wrist/cue to some degree on some shots and unlike out and out lateral movement this is a lot less obvious and contrary to some beliefs a cue doesn’t rotate in a straight line in the player’s hand. The Gravity Cue is uniquely designed to create on average 300 times more resistance to this rotational flaw and incidentally like any object with a lower centre of gravity, the Gravity Cue also automatically provides on average 15% more lateral resistance than a standard cue with the same weight and dimensions. All this creates a much more stable cue that encourages the player to physically and mentally build themselves round a pre determined cue position. The Gravity Cue is not a magic wand but the more the player plays with the cue the more they begin to accept what it is encouraging them to do. This includes the player feeding the cue through their hand more productively resulting in a smoother, straighter, more consistent stroke. This also applies to Break Cues where an element of control as well as power is required.
Just like the 360, the American version of this concept is in it's final stages of development but what has been a bonus is that due to the standard American Cue butt being slightly thicker than a Snooker or English 8Ball cue, the keel in the cue is that bit further away from the cues centre and therefore creates even more resistance.
Hope this helps and apologies for such a long post, I think I have more than made up for never doing this before. I am only at a computer a couple of times a week at present but if you have any questions I will try to answer them ASAP.
Cheers
Neil
Hi All.
My name is Neil Johnson, I am a pro Snooker Coach from England and with the help of a number of experts in their respected fields I have developed the concepts of both the Gravitycue and the 360 PureCue Action Trainer or 360 for short. Both concepts are designed to balance out the imbalances in a player’s action.
We have already had fantastic results with both products and it’s difficult to explain all the benefits in what is the first post I've ever made on a forum but here are the main attributes to these products.
The 360.
The 360 will hold itself together as one unit until the player interferes with it through 360 degrees i.e applies an uneven distribution of forces around its circumference. It is this uneven distribution of forces that stops the player from ever becoming like one unit with what represents the outline of the tool of the trade. The simple fact is we are not designed to wield a straight cue in the most optimum form but by training with the 360 we can get very close by training muscle control through 360 degrees. Initially the cue provides each and every individual player with conscious instant feedback to where the more obvious impurities are in their game and with some practice will train the player’s subconscious/muscle memory into developing a much better, much more functional version of their playing self. Every individual has a unique optimum way of forming themselves round the cue/cue line and the 360 actually guides the player towards this most enviable formula. Please note, there is a big difference between just holding the cue lightly as opposed to staying as connected to the cue as possible without interfering with the cue and its intended line.
With some practice and a reasonably healthy approach to learning, the cue will train the player to cue straighter and smoother, whether the individual cues pretty much on plane or with more of a pendulum/driving action because regardless of the players angle of attack, as long as the players mechanics are in tune with their true natural rhythm the cue will hold up. This automatically means the player has also managed to keep the energy at the all important striking point, running through the core of the cue and therefore generating more economical power.
The 360 is already being used by top Snooker and English 8ball pro players and top World and IBSF Coaches alike. An American pool version is also in the final stages of development, something as a Coach I am personally very exited about.
The Gravity Cue.
Whether they are aware of it or not, all players in all cue sports, including top snooker players, rotate their wrist/cue to some degree on some shots and unlike out and out lateral movement this is a lot less obvious and contrary to some beliefs a cue doesn’t rotate in a straight line in the player’s hand. The Gravity Cue is uniquely designed to create on average 300 times more resistance to this rotational flaw and incidentally like any object with a lower centre of gravity, the Gravity Cue also automatically provides on average 15% more lateral resistance than a standard cue with the same weight and dimensions. All this creates a much more stable cue that encourages the player to physically and mentally build themselves round a pre determined cue position. The Gravity Cue is not a magic wand but the more the player plays with the cue the more they begin to accept what it is encouraging them to do. This includes the player feeding the cue through their hand more productively resulting in a smoother, straighter, more consistent stroke. This also applies to Break Cues where an element of control as well as power is required.
Just like the 360, the American version of this concept is in it's final stages of development but what has been a bonus is that due to the standard American Cue butt being slightly thicker than a Snooker or English 8Ball cue, the keel in the cue is that bit further away from the cues centre and therefore creates even more resistance.
Hope this helps and apologies for such a long post, I think I have more than made up for never doing this before. I am only at a computer a couple of times a week at present but if you have any questions I will try to answer them ASAP.
Cheers
Neil
Gravitycue
Registered
In reading some of the posts again, I would like to add that Steve (as above) got
it pretty much on the money.
I don't expect everyone (just by looking at a video) to get just how effective this device is proving to be for all Cue Sports but any players style of cue action will benefit from the 360 whether they cue up, down or side to side. This training cue isn't necessarily designed to completely change the players individual style but what it will do is train each and every player to coordinate the path they take the cue on with a corresponding tempo. To say the least, this leads to a more refined version of the individuals playing self.
Cheers.
Neil.
Neil...I also watched the vido demo of your products and found them to be quite interesting...especially the 360. It was right on track with exactly what we teach, about how an improper grip can negatively affect the impact point on the CB, and furthermore the outcome of the resulting strike. I would love to try one of these. Are you planning to come to the Super Billiards Expo, in Valley Forge PA (in two weeks), or the BCA Trade Show this summer in Las Vegas? I did notice that in the demo, your demonstrator used a perfect pendulum swing on EVERY shot...something that some other snooker coaches maintain is the "wrong" approach (they seem to believe that the elbow drop is a necessity for expert level play...something I disagree with). Fine job, and I look forward to trying out your products at some future time. If you're interested in an American professional instructor's review, I would be happy to do that for you.:grin-square:
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Gravitycue
Registered
Hi Scott.
Myself and our MD will almost certainly be in L A in June but I will try to get a America Pool 360 to you before then once we are happy with the finished product. If possible, I would also like you to review the Gravity Cue, when developed.
Your views about the arm dropping (or not) are very interesting. I am an ex Pro player and I work with Pro and Junior Snooker players alike and where technique is concerned, I always aim to help them achieve the same thing, that is for them to form a very individual relationship with tool of the trade that is as close to one working unit as possible, on as wide a range of shots as possible. In my ideal world they would all function as well as young Clayton does on the video so your comments about what is generally looked for in the US is encouraging . I suppose Clayton's style in the snooker world is viewed as something of a modern classic but as you have already stated, some players drop the arm more. I also try to discourage this unless it is subtly done or something is telling me a particular player maybe needs to drop the arm a little on some shots to keep the desired smoothness through the stroke. Either way, the 360 pretty much helps the coach, player, or both decide this.
I am really looking forward to you trying it.
Thanks for you feedback Scott, please let me know if you have any more thoughts.
Neil.:smile:
man I wish this cue came out 3 years ago. I was having problems with my follow. It seemed like I was double hitting the cue ball. I've been playing since I was 5years old I'm 29 now and this had never happened before. So I ended up losing a lot of games and a lot of money because I wouldn't even use a follow shot if I was hitting soft. I actually quit playing for a year or two and now I'm back in action.
Pre condition. about 3 months prior I was arm wrestling a guy (righty I shoot right handed)at the bar after a few beers. It was at a stand still then all of a sudden it sounded like a tree branch broke. Everyone looks over, It was my elbow. Weird thing though elbow didn't hurt it was just numb. I'm pretty sure it was my tendon but without insurance I wasn't going to the doctor even though it still felt weird for the next week or two.
Now I started playing again. It turns out my stroke was messed up. Instead of shooting straight through the ball my stroke was choppy. Tip would raise upwards during my stroke. Probably from the elbow injury. If I wouldve had this cue I probably wouldn't have lost the 2 grand to the 75 year old one pocket player or that guy that really had no right to be on the table with me in full stroke.
After 2 weeks with my corrected stroke I'm back and going to be better than ever. In the local bigger tournaments that are rated 30 to 120 I'm at about a 95 right now and soon to be at 100. If this thing was available then they wouldve had my business.
Pre condition. about 3 months prior I was arm wrestling a guy (righty I shoot right handed)at the bar after a few beers. It was at a stand still then all of a sudden it sounded like a tree branch broke. Everyone looks over, It was my elbow. Weird thing though elbow didn't hurt it was just numb. I'm pretty sure it was my tendon but without insurance I wasn't going to the doctor even though it still felt weird for the next week or two.
Now I started playing again. It turns out my stroke was messed up. Instead of shooting straight through the ball my stroke was choppy. Tip would raise upwards during my stroke. Probably from the elbow injury. If I wouldve had this cue I probably wouldn't have lost the 2 grand to the 75 year old one pocket player or that guy that really had no right to be on the table with me in full stroke.
After 2 weeks with my corrected stroke I'm back and going to be better than ever. In the local bigger tournaments that are rated 30 to 120 I'm at about a 95 right now and soon to be at 100. If this thing was available then they wouldve had my business.
Gravitycue
Registered
Hi.
We plan to showcase the 360 PureCue Action Trainer and the Gravity Cue (both for American Pool) in the US in the coming months. Can anyone provide me with some details for the trade show in Las Vegas this summer. Date, venue and any other info would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Neil.
www.gravitycue.com
The BCA trade show in Vegas is a closed show. Members of the BCA only. It's all about B to B sales. If you want to reach the players, you need to be at SBE later this month, although it doesn't sound like that will fit your timeline.
Learn about the BCA show at www.bca-pool.com
Steve
I would also be willing to do a review of the product, perhaps Scott can lend me his
I notice you're building a 360 for 9-ball which sounds promising. In the video it appears to me that the shooter is using a 3/4 snooker cue with the spring at the joint. On the 9-ball cue would the spring be above the wrap or at the normal joint? What impact would the change in the location of the spring have on the way the cue functions?
Thanks,
Gravitycue
Registered
Hi Steve.
Your right, we wont be ready for SBE. Will look into BCA link though.
Thanks.
Neil.
Gravitycue
Registered
I would also be willing to do a review of the product, perhaps Scott can lend me his
I notice you're building a 360 for 9-ball which sounds promising. In the video it appears to me that the shooter is using a 3/4 snooker cue with the spring at the joint. On the 9-ball cue would the spring be above the wrap or at the normal joint? What impact would the change in the location of the spring have on the way the cue functions?
Thanks,
Hi Rufus.
Thanks for your interest. The Snooker 360 you see on the video is derived from a one piece cue. The mechanism just happens to give the impression there is a joint. The Pool 360 will come in a standard centrally jointed two piece, but the mechanism will still be in a similar position to that in the Snooker version. There has been a lot of trial and error with the positioning of this mechanism but we have it right now and it still leaves room for a wrap(optional).
Hope this helps.
Neil.