Groundbreaking new cue technology

Man, some of you all are brutal.

Does it occur to you that you could try to be polite a little bit in light of the fact that the people who make things like this are doing it because they wan to HELP people get better?

We already know that there is little money in pool stuff. Please consider that people pour a lot of their own money and time into developing these training aids. Now all of them might not really work well but give them a chance.

I had seen the Break Rak for years and dismissed it as something I didn't need. Then one show a few years ago I found myself with about 30 minutes to kill and at the Break Rak booth. So I started practicing with it. In 15 minutes I had figured out several flaws in my break and had corrected them. I was parking the cueball center table after that.

Later when I took the newfound techniques to our booth I was crushing the breaks. To this day my break is much better for those 15 minutes of practice with a great training aid. I bought one and Kelly Fisher borrowed it and I haven't seen it since. Maybe I need to send a detective to get my Break Rak back :-)

I fully believe that these two devices do work as advertised and that they are not gimmicks. If anyone ever bothered to read the Snooker forums they have been tested by some leading snooker coaches and found to work.

Interestingly they are having a debate over whether it's possible to get "deep screw" using the Gravity Cue. Gotta love the British and their terms. :-)
 
SpiderWebComm said:
The trainer cue is like the Medicus Driver in golf. Makes sense to me.

The FUNNY part is if a pendulum stroker used that, the 360 cue will show a lot of "flaws." Funny stuff.

It's interesting to see HOW DIFFERENT American coaches are from UK/Euro coaches. It's black/white.

I'd love to try these - I wonder if they'll be at SBE.

Dave
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Yea i thought the same thing about it being just like the medicus driver......i don't see how it would hurt a pendulum stroke tho....

seems like it would work just fine with a pendulum it would "snap" when you threw your shoulder into it and caused an uneven raising or lowering of the upper arm with the shoulder....

just a guess tho lol as of course neither of us have tried the thing.....

I might have to replace a joint in one of my cheap cues and throw a spring in there and find out....

not really interested about the gravity cue thing (has potential tho) but the medicus style training cue is probably the most innovative design i've seen for a cue training device to date. (even tho its from a golf club)
 
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Scott Lee said:
ndakotan...AFAIK, the guys with these cues did not come to Vegas for the BCAPL. They certainly didn't have a booth, and we never saw or heard from them, while we were doing clinics in our room all week. Hopefully they will be coming to the trade show next month in Vegas, where I'll be able to test that training cue.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Hi Scott.

We didn't manage to finalise the development of the American 360 before the BCAPL but we've been busy making some final adjustments to the cue over the last few months and unfortunately every one of these tweaks put quite a lot of additional time on the process.

One of the final adjustments we have made to the 360 is that it is now constructed in graphite and as I’m sure you are already aware, the 360 is all about the mechanics/technique and tempo of the stroke, and for what the device is there to achieve, it really does work in this material. Not to mention that it is also easier to accurately reproduce.

I am pleased to say that along with my wife Paula, I will be at the BCA trade show in Vegas next month. We fly in on the 12th and will be there till the 18th. We will be stationed at the Palko booth (number 675) where as well as meeting various traders, I plan to give demo’s and run a series of challenges with the 360.


As for the Gravity Cue, we will have one or two prototypes in wood to give people an idea of the feel and effect the concept produces as it won’t be long before the cue goes into full production for American cue sports. Palko, who are a manufacturing agent of ours also deal in graphite cues in the Asian market and as we have supplied them with a license in the graphite market, Gravity Cue versions in this material will also be on display on their stand. Not sure if graphite is as popular in standard form in the US as it is in some parts of Asia but Palko are keen all the same to get it into all markets.

I look forward to meeting you and possibly doing the demo at your stand that we previously spoke of.


Cheers.
Neil.
 
Neil...Excellent news! I will be manning the BCA Instructor booth (#164), so I'll definitely be making my way over to your booth...both to meet you, and to try out the 360 and Gravity cues. See you in three weeks!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Gravitycue said:
Hi Scott.

We didn't manage to finalise the development of the American 360 before the BCAPL but we've been busy making some final adjustments to the cue over the last few months and unfortunately every one of these tweaks put quite a lot of additional time on the process.

One of the final adjustments we have made to the 360 is that it is now constructed in graphite and as I’m sure you are already aware, the 360 is all about the mechanics/technique and tempo of the stroke, and for what the device is there to achieve, it really does work in this material. Not to mention that it is also easier to accurately reproduce.

I am pleased to say that along with my wife Paula, I will be at the BCA trade show in Vegas next month. We fly in on the 12th and will be there till the 18th. We will be stationed at the Palko booth (number 675) where as well as meeting various traders, I plan to give demo’s and run a series of challenges with the 360.


As for the Gravity Cue, we will have one or two prototypes in wood to give people an idea of the feel and effect the concept produces as it won’t be long before the cue goes into full production for American cue sports. Palko, who are a manufacturing agent of ours also deal in graphite cues in the Asian market and as we have supplied them with a license in the graphite market, Gravity Cue versions in this material will also be on display on their stand. Not sure if graphite is as popular in standard form in the US as it is in some parts of Asia but Palko are keen all the same to get it into all markets.

I look forward to meeting you and possibly doing the demo at your stand that we previously spoke of.


Cheers.
Neil.
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On the graphite thing, I don't think graphite will fly here in the U.S. Anyone in the States serious enough about their game to use your training aids would probably balk at anything made out of graphite.

Best of luck!!!
 
greyghost said:
Yea i thought the same thing about it being just like the medicus driver......i don't see how it would hurt a pendulum stroke tho....

seems like it would work just fine with a pendulum it would "snap" when you threw your shoulder into it and caused an uneven raising or lowering of the upper arm with the shoulder....

just a guess tho lol as of course neither of us have tried the thing.....

I might have to replace a joint in one of my cheap cues and throw a spring in there and find out....

not really interested about the gravity cue thing (has potential tho) but the medicus style training cue is probably the most innovative design i've seen for a cue training device to date. (even tho its from a golf club)
Click to expand...

Hi Greyghost.

Thanks for your comments, although from what I've seen in training devices on the golf market, the closest comparison to the 360 seems to be a bendy/whippy type training club but I could be mistaken.

You are right about the pendulum stroke being as doable with the 360 as any other style. Now forgive me as I may have mentioned this a couple of times already on this forum but it is a very important point and is, I believe key to unlocking any players true potential. The 360 is designed to bend/flex when, regardless of playing style, the player fails to apply an even distribution of pressure around the cues circumference at any time throughout the cueing/stroke process, and/or fails to match the mechanical movements they are making at that particular moment with a compatible tempo to that movement. Whoa! That was a mouthful, but this is a huge point and something that when fully appreciated will help so many players.

This device teaches the player to successfully transform their own individual style into one that gets themselves and the cue to function as close as possible to one pure working unit.

A long time ago I spent a few years on the tour as an under achieving pro snooker player and more recently ran a very successful snooker academy that churned out champ after champ. I also have and do work with top players who have some of the best strokes ever seen in the game. But for all the success the players where having, I always new there was something restricting them from developing something more refined and more natural to the way their body could or should move with a cue in their hand. I could never quite put my finger on what that was until the idea for the 360 was born and tested to a reasonable extent that I realized what that was.To the naked eye,these player where almost flawless but what the 360 exposed was that each and every one of them where, to varying degrees, fighting with the cue and therefore interfering with the potential of trueness in their stroke. In a matter of days the players where all much closer to achieving something closer to individual perfection and I knew we maybe had something special here.

Sorry if I've gone on a bit Greyghost and I suppose I must exept that until every player has experienced this device, there are always going to be some that don't quite get it.

Thanks again.
Neil.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
On the graphite thing, I don't think graphite will fly here in the U.S. Anyone in the States serious enough about their game to use your training aids would probably balk at anything made out of graphite.

Best of luck!!!
Click to expand...

I didn't fully explain before as they are still in development but we are going to have a range of maple 360s in the near future, just not necessarily for the mass market.

I can however tell you that within reason, it really doesn't matter what it's made of for what it's meant to achieve. What counts with this device is that the general outline and dimensions of the 360 are reasonably closely related to the cue the player uses to play with. The cue deeply develops movement and tempo and by the time the player has put in some work with this aid, regardless of the differing materials, they return to their own cue better equipped where the stroke and overall body and cue position is concerned. Hopefully most players will recognize this.
 
Gravitycue said:
I didn't fully explain before as they are still in development but we are going to have a range of maple 360s in the near future, just not necessarily for the mass market.

I can however tell you that within reason, it really doesn't matter what it's made of for what it's meant to achieve. What counts with this device is that the general outline and dimensions of the 360 are reasonably closely related to the cue the player uses to play with. The cue deeply develops movement and tempo and by the time the player has put in some work with this aid, regardless of the differing materials, they return to their own cue better equipped where the stroke and overall body and cue position is concerned. Hopefully most players will recognize this.
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Hi Neil,

Does the range of maple 360s you speak of include the American Pool version? I'm very interested in the 360 Trainer for Pool but I can not stand grafite as it gets very tacky. I do understand your reasons from a manufacturing stand point. Hopefully the Gravity Cue itself will have the option of at least a wood shaft, as it would probably hurt the North American market if not. Neil, how were the talks with Predator?
 
JAW725 said:
Hi Neil,

Does the range of maple 360s you speak of include the American Pool version? I'm very interested in the 360 Trainer for Pool but I can not stand grafite as it gets very tacky. I do understand your reasons from a manufacturing stand point. Hopefully the Gravity Cue itself will have the option of at least a wood shaft, as it would probably hurt the North American market if not. Neil, how were the talks with Predator?
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Hi Jaw.

Yes, the 360 for American Pool will be available in maple in a couple of months. I know what you mean about graphite and its tackiness and I had my own reservations but the samples we've tried are very smooth along the shaft and as long as the player freshens their hands up now and then and wipes the cue down they shouldn't have a problem with it in the 360.

The Gravity Cue will also come in maple and the first of these will slot into the low to mid price range for the mass market. Palko will have some samples for me at the BCA Vegas so dependant on that.....

Where top cue manufacturers for the American Gravity Cue (in maple) are concerned, as we have not yet got the absolute finished product, we have not approach any of them but although this is a protected concept, we have no intention of hoarding it to ourselves. Gravity Cue technology in a high quality, low deflection cue is a tantalising prospect and something I believe would bring near perfect playability to a cue.

Roughly 95% of the effect that the Gravity Cue creates comes from the scientifically developed keel, the rest comes from slight modifications to the cue body itself (though not critical).

One option we are looking at is to supply cue makers with the keel and some basic guidelines to the concept and so long as the desired effect is achieved, each cue maker can/could be as creative as they choose with regard to wood selection, construction, look, feel of the cue etc. These guys are really good at what they do and once explained, I'm sure they would find the process now problem.

Thanks Jaw.
Neil.
 
JAW725 said:
Hi Neil,

Does the range of maple 360s you speak of include the American Pool version? I'm very interested in the 360 Trainer for Pool but I can not stand grafite as it gets very tacky. I do understand your reasons from a manufacturing stand point. Hopefully the Gravity Cue itself will have the option of at least a wood shaft, as it would probably hurt the North American market if not. Neil, how were the talks with Predator?
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Hi again Jaw.

Forgot to mention a pretty important point about the 360 for American pool in graphite. The graphite shaft itself has a patented coating over it that is the brainchild of our manufacturer and simulates the look of maple. I don't know what this coating is called but as well as helping to distinguish it from it's snooker equivalent, it also manages to provide a barrier between the hand and what would otherwise be that undesirable sticky feel you normally get with graphite.

Cheers.
Neil.
 
Hi

Message for those attending next weeks BCA Vegas.

I will be giving demonstrations with both the 360 and the Gravity Cue on the Palko stand (booth number 675) from the 14th to the 16th.

The Gravity Cue I will be displaying is a raw prototype but is an accurate example of the effect the cue has on the stroke.

If you would like a demo on a particular day, please PM me before the 12th.

Thanks.
Neil.
 
EXPO Update

Arrived in LA last night after 11 hour flight, phew!

In Expo today setting up the tables and stand, really looking forward to this looks really good. any forum members around, I am staying at the Las Vegas Hilton.

Look forward to seeing some of you on your own patch.

Cheers
 
I have had the great opportunity to try out the new 360 training cue (the one with the spring in the cue), over the past couple of days, and I can tell you, from a professional perspective, it is a phenomenal training tool. Tight grip the cue, and the cue breaks at the spring. Use a loose grip and the cue doesn't bend at all, regardless of stroke speed. Neil was great to work with, and I'm looking forward to sharing this cue with a LOT of people...students and instructors both! Thanks Neil, for including me in your test group! :thumbup:

In other news, my inventor student has nearly finished our prototype cue with the 'pressure-pad' grip area, which also will clearly indicate too much grip pressure, with different audio tones. I was hoping to have it here in Las Vegas for the trade show, but it won't be done for another couple of weeks or so. I'm very excited to use both the 360 cue and the pressure pad cue in helping students to "train" themselves OUT of gripping the cue too tightly.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
I have had the great opportunity to try out the new 360 training cue (the one with the spring in the cue), over the past couple of days, and I can tell you, from a professional perspective, it is a phenomenal training tool. Tight grip the cue, and the cue breaks at the spring. Use a loose grip and the cue doesn't bend at all, regardless of stroke speed. Neil was great to work with, and I'm looking forward to sharing this cue with a LOT of people...students and instructors both! Thanks Neil, for including me in your test group! :thumbup:

In other news, my inventor student has nearly finished our prototype cue with the 'pressure-pad' grip area, which also will clearly indicate too much grip pressure, with different audio tones. I was hoping to have it here in Las Vegas for the trade show, but it won't be done for another couple of weeks or so. I'm very excited to use both the 360 cue and the pressure pad cue in helping students to "train" themselves OUT of gripping the cue too tightly.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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That is some good news, looking forward to seeing it!
 
what's up

I was told that my order for a 360 trainer would be filled in early october if I still wanted it, but my response emails indicating I do want one have been returned as undeliverable. Anyone know if an American release is imminent?

Also - Scott - how's your students' product coming?
 
ndakotan...I just spoke with him last week (he's in NYC, and I'm now in NYC). However, he had to put it aside, to work on some other things. Unfortunately, he is out of town, at the moment, and we need to be together to complete the process. I guess this will likely have to wait a few more months, as I won't be back in this area again until Jan. or Feb. I'm still excited about this concept though!

As far as the 360 cue, I believe I have the only one in the U.S.A., and I'm trying to let as many students and instructors play with it, as I'm able to. So far, it's an interesting concept cue!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

ndakotan said:
I was told that my order for a 360 trainer would be filled in early october if I still wanted it, but my response emails indicating I do want one have been returned as undeliverable. Anyone know if an American release is imminent?

Also - Scott - how's your students' product coming?
Click to expand...
 
issue resolved

ndakotan said:
I was told that my order for a 360 trainer would be filled in early october if I still wanted it, but my response emails indicating I do want one have been returned as undeliverable. Anyone know if an American release is imminent?
Click to expand...

Thanks Paula at Gravity Cue for helping me resolve the email issue so fast. Can't wait to get a cue.
 
Scott Lee said:
ndakotan...I just spoke with him last week (he's in NYC, and I'm now in NYC). However, he had to put it aside, to work on some other things. Unfortunately, he is out of town, at the moment, and we need to be together to complete the process. I guess this will likely have to wait a few more months, as I won't be back in this area again until Jan. or Feb. I'm still excited about this concept though!

As far as the 360 cue, I believe I have the only one in the U.S.A., and I'm trying to let as many students and instructors play with it, as I'm able to. So far, it's an interesting concept cue!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Hi Scott.

Apologies for the late reply. I have waited until we had some solid news on the American 360 before posting again.

Before I go on I would just like to say that it was an absolute pleasure to meet you and the other BCA boys in Vegas, not to mention an education. Please send my regards, and in particular to Walt and Randy.

Anyway, on to the update. The news is that the cue has finally been developed for the mass market and is available to purchase from our website www.gravitycue.com It will also be readily available in the very near future from numerous outlets around the world (including the States).

We are delighted with the final product, and as well as the now obvious technical aspects of device, the maple is finished with a smooth, patented, warp resistant coating that stands up really well to the elements when in transit, which is reassuring.

We can now also go ahead with some instructional video footage on how to get the most from the product and also a series of 360 challenges covering various skill levels. I will let you know when this is in place.

On the subject of video's, your DVD was great and will assist me in my pool coaching in the UK.

Thanks again Scott.
Neil.
 
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