gun drill

[whammo57]

I center drilled the coco, but i think the center drill was too big. The gun drill kept trying to walk when it hit the hole. I think if i use a smaller center drill it will be better. I didnt have any tear out, maybe i just got lucky. Ill follow your advice next time man. Thanks for the info! :thumbup:

Joe

You must bore a starter hole. Center drill the end of the piece and then drill a 1/2 inch hole about 1 inch deep. Then bore the hole until the head of the gun drill just slips in the hole.

This gives the gun drill a centered start. As soon as the gun drill goes past the starter hole it makes its own "bore" that keeps it on track.

On a piece longer than the gun drill, bore a hole on both ends and drill from both ends. The holes should meet perfectly in the middle.

Some people bore both ends to avoid splitting out when the drill exits the other end. I only do this on ebony because it is a little brittle. I have never had any split.

I run 40 lbs of air on the drill. Feed slow if you are using a dc motor as the controller will heat up and trip out. The motor can take it but the controller seems to be a little light.

I have a 1/2 hp ac motor I use on tough stuff. Curly maple seems to be the worst to drill and requires the most torque. PM me if you want some pics of the AC motor set up.

Kim

 

[pescadoman]

Just a few questions on these things.

Is there an insert on these things,or a multi-faceted cutting edge that can be reground?

From brand-new to no longer working properly,how long do they last?

If you have a machine that allows it,can you use these out of a QCTP mounted chuck or boring bar holder,and feed under power like a boring bar,or do they have to be mounted in the tailstock?

Thanks,Tommy D.

The end is ground carbide and be resharpened.

If cared for properly they should last your lifetime in wood.

They can be ordered for either the tool post, so you can use the powerfeed, or the tailstock. Tail stock versions have air port in side and would probably have smaller shank. Mine are tool post with air port in rear and go into a 1 inch boring bar holder.

 

[snipershot]

You must bore a starter hole. Center drill the end of the piece and then drill a 1/2 inch hole about 1 inch deep. Then bore the hole until the head of the gun drill just slips in the hole.

This gives the gun drill a centered start. As soon as the gun drill goes past the starter hole it makes its own "bore" that keeps it on track.

On a piece longer than the gun drill, bore a hole on both ends and drill from both ends. The holes should meet perfectly in the middle.

Some people bore both ends to avoid splitting out when the drill exits the other end. I only do this on ebony because it is a little brittle. I have never had any split.

I run 40 lbs of air on the drill. Feed slow if you are using a dc motor as the controller will heat up and trip out. The motor can take it but the controller seems to be a little light.

I have a 1/2 hp ac motor I use on tough stuff. Curly maple seems to be the worst to drill and requires the most torque. PM me if you want some pics of the AC motor set up.

Kim

Thanks Kim, i appreciate the help. Im using the drill on a 2hp south bend metal lathe, and it didnt have any trouble going through that piece of coco. Im anxious to try it again with a bored starter hole. Heres a couple pics of the one i did. Also, check out the pic where the gorilla glue came out the side. Apparently theres a hole there, lol. Is that gonna hurt anything?

Joe

 

[Lexicologist71]

I've had epoxy bleed through the side of a piece of wood while assembling my A joint. It completely disappeared in the first pass of the router. I wouldn't worry about the G glue coming out the side if nothing is visibly cracked.

 

[whammo57]

Thanks Kim, i appreciate the help. Im using the drill on a 2hp south bend metal lathe, and it didnt have any trouble going through that piece of coco. Im anxious to try it again with a bored starter hole. Heres a couple pics of the one i did. Also, check out the pic where the gorilla glue came out the side. Apparently theres a hole there, lol. Is that gonna hurt anything?

Joe

2 hp.... no problem.....

I have had a bubble come out thru a birds eye or a slight imperfection but it turns off and you can't see it.

Your cored piece of coco looks perfect...... Try a single piece 28 inches long.....lol

Kim

 

[snipershot]

2 hp.... no problem.....

I have had a bubble come out thru a birds eye or a slight imperfection but it turns off and you can't see it.

Your cored piece of coco looks perfect...... Try a single piece 28 inches long.....lol

Kim

I cant, I only got a 26" drill! lol. Im seriously thinking about coring a couple sneaky blanks I have. Ive had two blanks warp considerably after a couple taper passes. I took em down .050 the first pass, and .015 the next couple passes. I let them sit for a few weeks between passes, but they warped anyways. Its only the bocote ones though, the purple heart, coco, and rosewood blanks are fine.

Joe

 

[rhncue]

I cant, I only got a 26" drill! lol. Im seriously thinking about coring a couple sneaky blanks I have. Ive had two blanks warp considerably after a couple taper passes. I took em down .050 the first pass, and .015 the next couple passes. I let them sit for a few weeks between passes, but they warped anyways. Its only the bocote ones though, the purple heart, coco, and rosewood blanks are fine.

Joe

Bore from both ends. 26" and 26" equals 52". If the bored holes on the ends are true the drill will meet perfectly in the middle.

Dick

 

[scdiveteam]

I center drilled the coco, but i think the center drill was too big. The gun drill kept trying to walk when it hit the hole. I think if i use a smaller center drill it will be better. I didnt have any tear out, maybe i just got lucky. Ill follow your advice next time man. Thanks for the info! :thumbup:

Joe

Joe,

Here is what I found gives me a very straight and perfect coring hole without any walking.

Put a 3/8" center on both sides in the chuck.

Install the steady rest on your lathe and hold the work piece in the chuck on the end and hold the other end with a live center with your tail stock.

Now tighten up the 3 steady rest paws while still holding the center. Spin the lathe about 450 rpm and touch the hold area with some bees wax.

I then replace my live center with a drill chuck and install a 3/4" center drill and peck in to the stock about 1/2" to form my starter hole for the 3/4" gun drill.

Then just install the gun drill in the tail stock chuck and have at it. No walking. Don't use the tool post to anchor your gun drill, the slightest angle variance in X alignment of the drill will make the job fail.:nono:

I used to drill a 3/4" center hole on the other side but have found there is no reason for that with the 450 rpm and 100 PSI air with the valve cracked about 1/8 open. The back hole always comes out real smooth.

Good Luck,

Rick

 

[whammo57]

I cant, I only got a 26" drill! lol. Im seriously thinking about coring a couple sneaky blanks I have. Ive had two blanks warp considerably after a couple taper passes. I took em down .050 the first pass, and .015 the next couple passes. I let them sit for a few weeks between passes, but they warped anyways. Its only the bocote ones though, the purple heart, coco, and rosewood blanks are fine.

Joe

What RHNCUE says is correct... I bore from both ends on long pieces. It works perfectly.

Next time bore that bocote and and core it right away to keep it from warping. I had one crazy piece of jobillo crotch warp after it was cored. I had enough meat left to turn it straight again. That piece had a crazy grain and I should have known better than to use it even if it sat in my shop for 3 months.

Here 2 BEM that I bored from both ends. They are 60 in cues.

Kim

 

[JoeyInCali]

Joe,

Here is what I found gives me a very straight and perfect coring hole without any walking.

Put a 3/8" center on both sides in the chuck.

Install the steady rest on your lathe and hold the work piece in the chuck on the end and hold the other end with a live center with your tail stock.

Now tighten up the 3 steady rest paws while still holding the center. Spin the lathe about 450 rpm and touch the hold area with some bees wax.

I then replace my live center with a drill chuck and install a 3/4" center drill and peck in to the stock about 1/2" to form my starter hole for the 3/4" gun drill.

Then just install the gun drill in the tail stock chuck and have at it. No walking. Don't use the tool post to anchor your gun drill, the slightest angle variance in X alignment of the drill will make the job fail.:nono:

I used to drill a 3/4" center hole on the other side but have found there is no reason for that with the 450 rpm and 100 PSI air with the valve cracked about 1/8 open. The back hole always comes out real smooth.

Good Luck,

Rick

TONS of makers have been gun drilling with the drill on the toolpost for ages with no problems.
Tons also bore deep holes.
Heck some even auto-feed gun drilling.

 

[scdiveteam]

TONS of makers have been gun drilling with the drill on the toolpost for ages with no problems.
Tons also bore deep holes.
Heck some even auto-feed gun drilling.

Hi,

I guess if you want to line up the X axis to your drill every time it's ok. But even the slightest degree of angle can amplify very bad on the other side of the work piece especially when you are doing the deep coring. Not to mention getting the hight just perfect every time adds much more time to the process and if you don't get that spot on, there will be a price to pay.

I would rather suggest in a open forum that the tailstock be used because I think it is more repeatable and thus more accurate in the long run. I would much rather check my tailstock from time to time than have to indicate a gun drill each time I use it but that's just my way of thinking.

But you are right, if tons of CMs have been doing it that way. BTW, if tons of CMs jump into Lake Michigan in January, don't hold your breath waiting for my fat ass to join them. I just think the tail stock way is better and should have said it that way. If I ran out and bought the gun drill without the 90 degree air inlet on it, I would make a change without a second thought.

I core every piece of wood I use in the butt and it is so much easier to just chuck it up.:idea:

JMO,

Rick

 

[rhncue]

Joe,

Here is what I found gives me a very straight and perfect coring hole without any walking.

Put a 3/8" center on both sides in the chuck.

Install the steady rest on your lathe and hold the work piece in the chuck on the end and hold the other end with a live center with your tail stock.

Now tighten up the 3 steady rest paws while still holding the center. Spin the lathe about 450 rpm and touch the hold area with some bees wax.

I then replace my live center with a drill chuck and install a 3/4" center drill and peck in to the stock about 1/2" to form my starter hole for the 3/4" gun drill.

Then just install the gun drill in the tail stock chuck and have at it. No walking. Don't use the tool post to anchor your gun drill, the slightest angle variance in X alignment of the drill will make the job fail.:nono:

I used to drill a 3/4" center hole on the other side but have found there is no reason for that with the 450 rpm and 100 PSI air with the valve cracked about 1/8 open. The back hole always comes out real smooth.

Good Luck,

Rick

Truthfully, I can't believe that anyone would consider using a gun drill mounted into the tail stock. If the gun drill is aligned properly into a properly bored hole then the drill will bore extremely close with a perfect bore. Much better than hand drilling with the tail stock. There are very few tail stocks that are aligned with the head stock, by design. Also, just as the automatic feed performs a much better cut on material when turning with a boring bar or normal tooling it also does with a gun drill. Let the machine do what it was designed to do.

Dick

 

[JoeyInCali]

Hi,

I guess if you want to line up the X axis to your drill every time it's ok. But even the slightest degree of angle can amplify very bad on the other side of the work piece especially when you are doing the deep coring. Not to mention getting the hight just perfect every time adds much more time to the process and if you don't get that spot on, there will be a price to pay.

I would rather suggest in a open forum that the tailstock be used because I think it is more repeatable and thus more accurate in the long run. I would much rather check my tailstock from time to time than have to indicate a gun drill each time I use it but that's just my way of thinking.

But you are right, if tons of CMs have been doing it that way. BTW, if tons of CMs jump into Lake Michigan in January, don't hold your breath waiting for my fat ass to join them. I just think the tail stock way is better and should have said it that way. If I ran out and bought the gun drill without the 90 degree air inlet on it, I would make a change without a second thought.

I core every piece of wood I use in the butt and it is so much easier to just chuck it up.:idea:

JMO,

Rick

Rick, that's like saying drilling with the tailstock is more accurate than boring with a boring bar in the toolpost.
Gun drilling is a boring operation to some ( some actually pre-drill the hole end to end then bore for the exit and entrance exact size ) .
Are rifle barrels drilled with the drill on the tailstock ???

Just make sure you have a vacuum hose at the rear b/c air will blow chips that way.
Most makers DO NOT use wax on the steady rest . Sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me . The steady rest was not designed for that. If a ton of makers do it that way, more power to them.

 

[scdiveteam]

Truthfully, I can't believe that anyone would consider using a gun drill mounted into the tail stock. If the gun drill is aligned properly into a properly bored hole then the drill will bore extremely close with a perfect bore. Much better than hand drilling with the tail stock. There are very few tail stocks that are aligned with the head stock, by design. Also, just as the automatic feed performs a much better cut on material when turning with a boring bar or normal tooling it also does with a gun drill. Let the machine do what it was designed to do.

Dick

Dick,

Have you ever tried a gun drill mounted in the tail stock? I have.

From the words in your post I would guess not because you can't believe anyone would even think of doing that. They make gun drills with a 90 degree air inlet for that singular purpose.

I guess the "If the gun drill is aligned properly" part of your statement is the crux of this argument. Frankly, I got better things to do with my time than worrying about aligning a tool on 2 axises after boring when I am looking for a +.010 fit after sanding a dowel. But I do want a straight hole. The tailstock method gives me that after center drilling while holding with the chuck and the steady rest.

"Sterling Gun Drill" gives you the option for use in the tail stock or tool mount. I guess like me, they don't share your mindset in this area.

From Their Website:

Drills for non-metals:
Pool cues, woodwinds, plastic, composite, etc. "X" in field 15 of part number. All to be .0015”/inch back taper, R-3 Contour, N-8 nose grind unless otherwise noted. Lathe applications: determine “side air” (in tailstock) driver or “rear air” (on carriage) driver. Pipe tap 1/8” (side air), 1/8"or 1/4” (rear air).


As I said before, JMO,

Rick G

 

[scdiveteam]

Rick, that's like saying drilling with the tailstock is more accurate than boring with a boring bar in the toolpost.
Gun drilling is a boring operation to some ( some actually pre-drill the hole end to end then bore for the exit and entrance exact size ) .
Are rifle barrels drilled with the drill on the tailstock ???

Just make sure you have a vacuum hose at the rear b/c air will blow chips that way.
Most makers DO NOT use wax on the steady rest . Sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me . The steady rest was not designed for that. If a ton of makers do it that way, more power to them.

Joe,

Wax reduces friction. How glad I am that you represent most cue makers LOL. If I am the only one who uses a steady rest for this purpose, that makes me feel very special, kinda like Warner Von Braun on the Saturn 5 Rocket. But alas, this is not Rocket Science, just putting a hole through a piece of wood, dammit. Back to reality.

Are you saying that you are coring wood and not holding it on both ends?

I am confused! Sometimes I feel like Charleston Heston in "Planet of the Apes". The whole damn world is upside down. :banghead:

There is no right or wrong way, but at some point logic will prevail. I am sure of that. For me, my way is the right way for me and everyone else has to find their path in their own time and way. That all.

Again, JMO,
Rick

 

[JoeyInCali]

Joe,

1. Are you saying that you are coring wood and not holding it on both ends?

I am confused! Sometime I feel like Charleston Heston in "Planet of the Apes". The whole dam world is upside down. :banghead:

2. There is no right or wrong way, but at some point logic will prevail. I am sure of that. For me, my why is the right way and everyone else has to find their path in their own time and way. That all.

Again, JMO,
Rick

1. I don't how that's possible. So many ways you can use the steady rest and the inside spindle .
2. Problem is you said using the toolpost is the wrong way. IF the saddle is off in some spots of the bed, so would the tailstock.
If you indicated the gun drill on the tailstock, you can only indicate up to 3 inches in and out . If you indicate the gun drill on the toolpost, you can indicate 12 inches easily. There is no way the tailstock mounted gun drill will indicate better than the gun drill in the toolpost imo.

 

[scdiveteam]

1. I don't how that's possible. So many ways you can use the steady rest and the inside spindle .
2. Problem is you said using the toolpost is the wrong way. IF the saddle is off in some spots of the bed, so would the tailstock.
If you indicated the gun drill on the tailstock, you can only indicate up to 3 inches in and out . If you indicate the gun drill on the toolpost, you can indicate 12 inches easily. There is no way the tailstock mounted gun drill will indicate better than the gun drill in the toolpost imo.

Joey,

Keep digging your hole deeper. Because you are not making sense.

Remember we are talking +.010 tolerance here and you bring up bed way variance.

You just like to argue, come on admit it.

I bet you bought one of the gun drills that mount to the tool post and are stuck with it.

Again, how do you hold your wood when coring. I bet I won't see you answer that one again and you will change the subject to some other meaningless chatter.

There are people here that want to gain knowledge about coring through peer check and review. Don't obfuscate the issue with meaningless banter.

JMO,

Rick

 

[cueman]

I do all my coring with the tailstock. I could put the tailstock in between the carriage and headstock and use the power feed to push it along. But it only takes a few minutes to core without it so I don't bother. I also have a feel for it if something slips or is going wrong. I tend to think most quality lathes have tailstocks that are lined up just as good as someone can eyeball getting a drill going in centered on a cross-slide. I can see advantages to both ways. They do call them coring drills and not coring bars.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Joey,

Keep digging your hole deeper. Because you are not making sense.

Remember we are talking +.010 tolerance here and you bring up bed way variance.

You just like to argue, come on admit it.

I bet you bought one of the gun drills that mount to the tool post and are stuck with it.

Again, how do you hold your wood when coring. I bet I won't see you answer that one again and you will change the subject to some other meaningless chatter.

There are people here that want to gain knowledge about coring through peer check and review. Don't obfuscate the issue with meaningless banter.

JMO,

Rick

I guess you've never seen bearing inside a steady rest ?
Or chuck inside a steady rest ?
Steady rest with bearing on the tips ?
Here's a good one.
http://www.thefintels.com/aer/steadyrestmod.htm




What do you mean +.010 variance ? If your gun drill is .750", would you want that hole to be .760" ?

 

[scdiveteam]

I guess you've never seen bearing inside a steady rest ?
Or chuck inside a steady rest ?
Steady rest with bearing on the tips ?
Here's a good one.
http://www.thefintels.com/aer/steadyrestmod.htm




What do you mean +.010 variance ? If your gun drill is .750", would you want that hole to be .760" ?

Joe,

My dowel is at .737 and the cored hole is .750 nominal.

Rick