Hal Houle

[av84fun]

I Always Offer But They Never Listen. Ears Are Always Shut.
They Tell Me They Know It All.

Hal Houle

That may be true but if there is ANY justice in the world, you should be inducted into the Hall of Fame for a Life Achievement award.

You have made HUGE contributions to the body of knowledge on aiming and other things and have pioneered what I sincerely believe will become recognized as the STANDARD aiming technique.

All it will take is a few MORE internationally respected instructors to adopt the fundamentals of CTE and your place in history will be assured.

There are few people, if any, in the history of the sport who have given more time and information FOR FREE than you have and the sport owes you a major debt of gratitude.

Thank you,
Jim

 

[DTL]

........................

 

[cigjonser]

No but CLOSE. Now we're really getting somewhere.

Please adjust the image so that the V is .25 inside the CTE line. You have it .25 inside the edge of the CB. Also, the pocket is WAY too small relative to the balls. Make the pocket at the jaws double the width of the balls.

Gotcha. This part will be relatively easy to do.

But there is something else wrong with the scale of your diagram. I know nothing about graphic arts but setting up your shot on my table and having my hand as far left as you do, the pivot results in missing the OB entirely...to the RIGHT...from 1 diamond distance and yet your diagram shows the hit being too THICK.

Not being into graphics I can't explain what is going on. However, it MIGHT be that the VISUALIZATION is different when sighting from the perspective of a pool player vs. viewing from directly overhead as is the case in your diagram and therefore an overhead view may never depict what the shooter sees.

Colin has a 3D sort of application so maybe you two could collabborate to show how the shots look from the shooter's perspective.

THANKS for your efforts.

Jim

This is an excellent (and probably breakthrough) point! From the shooter's perspective, the OB will be further away and therefore smaller (looking) when lining up CTE. The OB in the images is exactly the same size as the CB which would account for a too-full hit. If I get the math right, I should be able to shrink the OB appropriately to account for distance perspective and still be able to show the results in 2-D. Then I'll line 'em up and see what we get.

And thank YOU for your taking the time to reply. Hopefully, at the end of all this we'll have a good "why it works" to point to.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Gotcha. This part will be relatively easy to do.



This is an excellent (and probably breakthrough) point! From the shooter's perspective, the OB will be further away and therefore smaller (looking) when lining up CTE. The OB in the images is exactly the same size as the CB which would account for a too-full hit. If I get the math right, I should be able to shrink the OB appropriately to account for distance perspective and still be able to show the results in 2-D. Then I'll line 'em up and see what we get.

And thank YOU for your taking the time to reply. Hopefully, at the end of all this we'll have a good "why it works" to point to.

Good luck, though it's all been done before.

What you will find is the same thing we know, and that is that for the various cut angles and distances between CB and OB a different offset from the CTE line to the bridge position is required.

That would be fine if there were an actual system to describe how to make this adjustment. However there is no simplistic system, just some guides that a few use to get them in the ballpark and the rest is repetition and trial and error until the player learns to see / feel / intuitively judge that bridge position.

In relation to some guides that get you in the ballpark, they take a form similar to:

If the cut is over 30 degrees (cutting to the left) the bridge hand goes to the left of the CTE line. If less than 30, the bridge hand goes to the right of the CTE line.

For wider angles and straighter angles, and depending on the distance between the balls, variations in amount of offset in these directions can be used, such as 1/2 tip, 1 tip or even at edge of CB.

0.25 inch left or right of CTE line cannot possibly work for all shots. In fact, it would only work for a few set angles at certain distance separations. More options would open up by changing the length of the bridge, but such a method is not really what is being advocated, at least in a truly systematized way.

The adjustment is largely intuitive and developed with experience. This shouldn't offend the users. The system works for players who train with it, that's good, it just means the system has not completely broken the mould of aiming methods. It does not find the angle for the player, it just helps the player to learn how to find the angle.

It is a very different aiming method than traditional methods, hence it appears quite magical. I think it has certain advantages. But I am not convinced that players using this system will ever pot as well or better than the best aimers / most accurate potters in the world.

Colin

 

[Big C]

Wow!

Some might think this is extreme, but it isn't.... not at all. I spoke to Jerry from NYC Grind at the Million Dollar 9-ball and just seeing him reminded me to do a video of throwing your cue. I learned this from Nick Mannino nearly 10 years ago. I believe he picked this up from Gene Nagy. At the time, I couldn't incorporate it into my game because my stroke and aiming weren't up to snuff yet.

I use this technique all the time. Although I say you should only stay on the vertical axis of the CB while throwing, you don't have to at all. In fact, it's extremely effective for all shots. I mention vertical axis because I personally use it to cinch crucial shots. When used with Vitello's system or CTE, it removes the human element of b1tching your stroke. Can you b1tch your throw? I guess. Nerves make you tighten-up and turn your cue...making the CB squirt and voila... you miss like a loser.

You can't steer the cue or tighten-up when the cue is spearing straight through the CB.

I thought I'd post this here in the Hal Houle thread. If you use CTE and you miss, maybe you're steering because you're not trusting the system. Experiment with this... it's easy to learn and will make (save) you moolah.

http://www.poolvids.com/view/52/throwing-your-cue/

I tried it and I like it! :thumbup: Thanks for posting this video.

 

[av84fun]

Gotcha. This part will be relatively easy to do.



This is an excellent (and probably breakthrough) point! From the shooter's perspective, the OB will be further away and therefore smaller (looking) when lining up CTE. The OB in the images is exactly the same size as the CB which would account for a too-full hit. If I get the math right, I should be able to shrink the OB appropriately to account for distance perspective and still be able to show the results in 2-D. Then I'll line 'em up and see what we get.

And thank YOU for your taking the time to reply. Hopefully, at the end of all this we'll have a good "why it works" to point to.

YES!!!!!!!!!!! I've been BEGGING the slide rule, math whiz crowd to understand the concept of PERSPECTIVE!!!!

But they post their cuetable diagrams with their angle calculators and prononouce all kind of things to be "flawed" but as you THANKFULLY point out, we don't play pool on cuetable graphs in 2D...we play on pool tables in 3D (excpet for the players who drop speed and then God only knows how many Ds they are seeing!!) (-:

That is why even your great work might not show the shots going...but it is the most descriptive I've yet seen to demonstrate HOW to approach the CTE system. The point is that on the TABLE...THEY GO! I may be a blithering idiot by Spidey is NOT. Look at his videos people...da cat can PLAY and he is trying to HELP YOU.

So, if the adjustments you make don't show the ball going to the pocket, just delete the pocket and just depict how to set up to the shots.

SPIDEY!!! Please chime in and help with suggestions on hand placement, pivot stuff etc.

Best,
Jim

 

[SpiderWebComm]

YES!!!!!!!!!!! I've been BEGGING the slide rule, math whiz crowd to understand the concept of PERSPECTIVE!!!!

But they post their cuetable diagrams with their angle calculators and prononouce all kind of things to be "flawed" but as you THANKFULLY point out, we don't play pool on cuetable graphs in 2D...we play on pool tables in 3D (excpet for the players who drop speed and then God only knows how many Ds they are seeing!!) (-:

That is why even your great work might not show the shots going...but it is the most descriptive I've yet seen to demonstrate HOW to approach the CTE system. The point is that on the TABLE...THEY GO! I may be a blithering idiot by Spidey is NOT. Look at his videos people...da cat can PLAY and he is trying to HELP YOU.

So, if the adjustments you make don't show the ball going to the pocket, just delete the pocket and just depict how to set up to the shots.

SPIDEY!!! Please chime in and help with suggestions on hand placement, pivot stuff etc.

Best,
Jim

Here's the deal....

I can put my bridge outside of the limits of the cue ball and pivot to make the ball. I can offset my cue 1 tip and make any ball. I have a hunch it's my pivot technique. I'm not sure of the why's yet - so I'm afraid to chime in at this time. I've been SOOOO busy with work, I haven't had time to practice... but I will later this week.

I just CTE and the ball goes in the hole. I wish I knew, BELIEVE ME. I've been collaborating with Colenso on the side via email... because for the life of me.... I'm trying to get him to click with it so he can post the why's.... he's a lot more analytical than me.

Like I said before, I honest to God don't care if no one ever figures out the whys. Not affecting my run outs if the next guy can't do a proof. My speed has been picking up momentum non-stop for the last 10 months.

Dave

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I tried it and I like it! :thumbup: Thanks for posting this video.

You're welcome. Really glad I could help.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Some might think this is extreme, but it isn't.... not at all. I spoke to Jerry from NYC Grind at the Million Dollar 9-ball and just seeing him reminded me to do a video of throwing your cue. I learned this from Nick Mannino nearly 10 years ago. I believe he picked this up from Gene Nagy. At the time, I couldn't incorporate it into my game because my stroke and aiming weren't up to snuff yet.

I use this technique all the time. Although I say you should only stay on the vertical axis of the CB while throwing, you don't have to at all. In fact, it's extremely effective for all shots. I mention vertical axis because I personally use it to cinch crucial shots. When used with Vitello's system or CTE, it removes the human element of b1tching your stroke. Can you b1tch your throw? I guess. Nerves make you tighten-up and turn your cue...making the CB squirt and voila... you miss like a loser.

You can't steer the cue or tighten-up when the cue is spearing straight through the CB.

I thought I'd post this here in the Hal Houle thread. If you use CTE and you miss, maybe you're steering because you're not trusting the system. Experiment with this... it's easy to learn and will make (save) you moolah.

http://www.poolvids.com/view/52/throwing-your-cue/[/QUOT

Efren does this all the time (but doesn't actually let go of his stick)........esp on real soft shots. Stand behind him next time you see him practicing (perhaps at the upcoming US Open or DCC).

He releases the cue, lets it fly and catches it in one quick motion. Obviously, lots of talent. For me, I just drop the SoB.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

ANOTHER GREAT VIDEO!!

The kid knows his $hit!

(-:
Jim

Thanks Jim! I'll check my head

 

[Colin Colenso]

Here's the deal....

I can put my bridge outside of the limits of the cue ball and pivot to make the ball. I can offset my cue 1 tip and make any ball. I have a hunch it's my pivot technique. I'm not sure of the why's yet - so I'm afraid to chime in at this time. I've been SOOOO busy with work, I haven't had time to practice... but I will later this week.

I just CTE and the ball goes in the hole. I wish I knew, BELIEVE ME. I've been collaborating with Colenso on the side via email... because for the life of me.... I'm trying to get him to click with it so he can post the why's.... he's a lot more analytical than me.

Like I said before, I honest to God don't care if no one ever figures out the whys. Not affecting my run outs if the next guy can't do a proof. My speed has been picking up momentum non-stop for the last 10 months.

Dave

Whatever observations you can add are appreciated Dave.

Just hope thinking about it too much doesn't put you off your game

I'll continue to try the method based on my understanding of it.

Colin

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Throwing your cue....

....deleted

 

[Patrick Johnson]

This is an excellent (and probably breakthrough) point! From the shooter's perspective, the OB will be further away and therefore smaller (looking) when lining up CTE. The OB in the images is exactly the same size as the CB which would account for a too-full hit. If I get the math right, I should be able to shrink the OB appropriately to account for distance perspective and still be able to show the results in 2-D. Then I'll line 'em up and see what we get.

There is no perspective in an overhead view. Anyway, in a perspective view all your parallel lines would converge, not just the edges of the balls. The mechanics at the cue ball remain the same as in your drawing.

pj
chgo

 

[Scott Lee]

Dave...Efren does NOT release the cue and 'catch' it. It does not slide in his grip hand. He just uses a very loose grip. BTW, I use, and teach, this technique for ALL shots (including the break)...not just the ones you pointed out in your video.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

He releases the cue, lets it fly and catches it in one quick motion. Obviously, lots of talent. For me, I just drop the SoB.

 

[Pete]

Dave...Efren does NOT release the cue and 'catch' it. It does not slide in his grip hand. He just uses a very loose grip. BTW, I use, and teach, this technique for ALL shots (including the break)...not just the ones you pointed out in your video.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Hey Scott,

Just to toss out there, Colin said on his break video (if my memory holds true) that he tightened the grip, I think at impact with the cue ball.

Could either or both of you chime in with your opinions?

Pete

 

[CueAndMe]

What you will find is the same thing we know, and that is that for the various cut angles and distances between CB and OB a different offset from the CTE line to the bridge position is required.
Colin

Colin, although I believe that different angles of line-ups of balls require different bridge offsets/pivots from the CTE line, there is something special going on. As object balls move away from the cue ball on a single line (perhaps only on a line drawn from center to their edges, but perhaps not) the same pivot can pocket most or all of those balls.

And cigjonser, Patrick is right about the perspective issue. There is no perspective working against you in your drawings or on the table for this exercise. When you're only considering working off of a single line, like the center to edge line, you don't have to worry about perspective gumming up the works. An example of where perspective would come into play would be if you used your cue tip width to judge an area on the object ball. On the cueball it would be fine because its distance from your eyes is constant, but on an ever moving object ball you'll find that perspective can cause the tip to cover different amounts of the object ball. However, using only one side of your shaft to line up a point on the object ball could give you very sharp results.

 

[JoeyA]

Magazine Interview for Hal Houle

That may be true but if there is ANY justice in the world, you should be inducted into the Hall of Fame for a Life Achievement award.

You have made HUGE contributions to the body of knowledge on aiming and other things and have pioneered what I sincerely believe will become recognized as the STANDARD aiming technique.

All it will take is a few MORE internationally respected instructors to adopt the fundamentals of CTE and your place in history will be assured.

There are few people, if any, in the history of the sport who have given more time and information FOR FREE than you have and the sport owes you a major debt of gratitude.

Thank you,
Jim

Well said Jim.

It has been an uphill battle but even the most hostile of the anti-Houle crowd are reluctantly giving CTE and Hal some credit.

Through his aiming system Hal Houle has given a lot of pleasure to a lot of people. It never ceases to amaze me of the people I have known who couldn't aim worth a darn, after they talk with Hal, they are brimming with confidence and full of glee and it is as if they have been given their most treasured gift. The exhuberance in their voice as they excitedly tell me of their new found abilities demonstrates that Hal does deserve some type of recognition and perhaps the industry will recognize his contribution.

Wouldn't it be great if some of the magazines decided to interview pool players that use CTE and then interview Hal Houle for his contribution?


I wonder which pool magazine will be the first to obtain Hal's interview.
It would give many of us great pleasure to see his contribution acknowledged.

A follow up interview months later could be done with the highly respected instructor, Stan Shuffett and up and coming star player, Landon Shuffett who have taken Hal's CTE to another level. Stan and Landon have both acknowledged publicly that PRO ONE is a direct descendant of Hal's CTE.
I think Stan Shuffett is the one person who I can think of who has the best ability to describe the system.

The smartest pool magazines will be seeking to get that first interview. They would also be smart to line up interviews with pool players from all skill levels, especially the beginning players and the professional players.

To say that Hal's CTE aiming system has created lots of discussion is an understatement for sure.

Maybe then we could have a tar and feather party for his detractors. :woot: :dance: :lmao: :duck:

JoeyA

 

[Colin Colenso]

Hey Scott,

Just to toss out there, Colin said on his break video (if my memory holds true) that he tightened the grip, I think at impact with the cue ball.

Could either or both of you chime in with your opinions?

Pete

Pete,
I wouldn't tighten on a standard power stroke, but with the break I'm looking to get good acceleration and timing of the wrist flick. One way I found to get that was to tighten from a relaxed wrist position (flexed back) just before the point of impact. That made sure the wrist flexed forward at the appropriate moment.

If someone developed timing another way, then the grip tightening may not be necessary, but it did seem to add power to my break and others might find some success doing that.

Colin

Regarding throwing the cue, I think stroking hard tends to straighten the stroke naturally anyway. I personally think the role of the stroke is much less important than most imagine. Most people blame their stroke when their aiming is really at fault.

It's not really that hard to move the tip in a pretty straight line with a bit of practice and if the bridge is at the pivot point for the shot, then you need a pretty decent swoop to make a ball miss if you're lined up straight.

I hit them harder to avoid rolls and skids and sometimes swerve, not cause I'm too worried about stroking straight enough on a slow shot.

Another observation is that many players think they don't stroke straight on power shots, when in fact they rarely aim straight and learn to swoop on softer hits. When they hit hard they can't use the intuitive swoop to correct the aim, hence they miss.

 

[Jerry Yost]

Tongue in cheek

I'm just not that cerebral of a pool player and that may be why my eyes glaze over during these discussions. Having said that, what I haven't heard discussed is part two of the system "A simpleton's system for learning to play pool". As the name infers it's very simple. The system in a nut shell is: "See the Spot & Hit the Spot". That's all there is to it. All of this discussion to this point seems to address part one of the system 'See the Spot'. Now in my humble opinion, when I fail to pocket a ball it's not because I failed in step one. It's because I failed at step 2. I've told numerous beginners that learning to identify the point on the object ball you need to hit in order to pocket the ball is the easy part. Actually hitting it is the hard part. Am I in the minority with this belief?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I'm just not that cerebral of a pool player and that may be why my eyes glaze over during these discussions. Having said that, what I haven't heard discussed is part two of the system "A simpleton's system for learning to play pool". As the name infers it's very simple. The system in a nut shell is: "See the Spot & Hit the Spot". That's all there is to it. All of this discussion to this point seems to address part one of the system 'See the Spot'. Now in my humble opinion, when I fail to pocket a ball it's not because I failed in step one. It's because I failed at step 2. I've told numerous beginners that learning to identify the point on the object ball you need to hit in order to pocket the ball is the easy part. Actually hitting it is the hard part. Am I in the minority with this belief?

No, but you're leaving out the step that systems try to fill in: hitting the object ball "spot" with the correct spot on the cue ball. If we could see the CB contact point, nobody would have trouble aiming it at the OB contact point and there wouldn't be a market for all these systems.

Joe Tucker's system is the one that addresses this problem in the most straightforward manner, but it's a challenge to memorize his 10 contact points per 1/4 ball.

pj
chgo