Handicapped tournaments

S

scttybee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not trying to start a flame war of any kind...but this
was recently brought up by more then a few players at a local weekend tournament
with all the new tours popping up and some old ones adjusting
how does everyone feel about lower"c or d"players paying less money to enter but then also getting games on the wire?
This by defintion(poolhall definition)is a double handicap
it applies to a b c or d players but obviously the c/d get the best of it

i would love to hear everyones opinion-your rating doesnt matter but you could state it if it aids in your opinion
 
Good Point!!!

Hey Scottie Bee, i know that you are talking about the Predator Tournament, and yes, i think this is a double handicap that the Aand B player's have to pay more and give out games to the C and D player's, there once was a thing called a '' SUGGESTION SHEET '' which Gail and Tony wrote up and presented at the first ever Predator Tournament, which i feel was the best thing to happen for pool player's and the tournament's that THEY PAY to get into! I think the most important information to running a good Tournament is to have the PLAYER'S PERSPRECTIVE on thing's, and for the Tournament director to make a decision on the opinion's of the player's!
 
Good Point!

Scottie, it is no use, pool is like a drug to the player's who consistantly play on these Tour's, and most will never share there TRUE FEELING'S about certain thing's, this is why very few pool hall's are left, and this GAME, yes, it is a GAME, not a sport, will be dying out very shortly unfortunatley, the people who play in these event's should have a say in what is happening in these Tournament's because without the player's, there would be no Tournament, but the player's just keep on going and saying nothing so i don't know a better solution than bringing back these '' SUGGESTION SHEETS '', take care Scottie Bee and alway's a pleasure to put my 2 cent's in because this is AMERICA BABY, freedom of Speech!!!:wink:
 
no bobby i was talking about the tri-state also-it was brought up at the predator but they both have it and im sure other tours that we dont play on also do it
 
scttybee said:
Not trying to start a flame war of any kind...but this
was recently brought up by more then a few players at a local weekend tournament
with all the new tours popping up and some old ones adjusting
how does everyone feel about lower"c or d"players paying less money to enter but then also getting games on the wire?
This by defintion(poolhall definition)is a double handicap
it applies to a b c or d players but obviously the c/d get the best of it

i would love to hear everyones opinion-your rating doesnt matter but you could state it if it aids in your opinion
Click to expand...

Scttybee,
I wouldnt have any problem with it under certain conditions. These days getting the players out is the real work and doing what you have to in order to get the lambs to come out and play with the lions has become a part of the business. Its evident that here in NC everybody paying the same entry if its fairly high when they dont have the same chances just doesnt work for the players because they have other choices and they will just stay home. No matter what you do.

I like to see folks come out a play myself. As you climb the skill ladder there are just fewer at the top than there are at the bottom, factor in the economy then you have people wanting to hold onto their money.
Its definitely a money thing but at a certain level its a entertainment thing. Even in hard times people are willing to pay for a good time occasionally. A weekend of pool where entry, food, calcutta, beer, one night of hotel is around $150 well there you have some magic. It may take you splitting a room but thats not so bad thats another player.

336Robin:thumbup: http://274928807619529663.weebly.com/

aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
 
robin i appreciate the sentiment but thats what i mean-
yes we want full feilds at these tourneys-yes we want to win more than we can at a weekly tourney-but normal handicapping needs to apply-
example when betting on teams in sports you either take the odds or the points-you dont get both
the c/d players are getting both-"x"amount of dollars less and games on the wire
so a/b players start from behind every match unless theyre playing an equal- i know that local guys are going to say thats why they start in separate brackets(most events)thats a third bump for the lower player-now he/she doesnt need to worry about drawing someone who can keep him in the chair till the end of the tourney-its nice for them but its really not entirely fair
 
The A/B players have the best shot at winning the tournaments. They should want higher entries. The C/D players have a low percentage shot at winning. So to get them in, they gotta pay less. They risk less but also have less of a chance to actually win.

Even with the games on the wire, a C/D player has little chance against an A player. The fire power of a C/D just isn't enough. I know from experience. :)

I've had some good days at the tristate but always get tripped up by an A player.

It's real easy to complain from the top looking down, but put yourself in the shoes of someone who cannot win but still shows up.
 
If they can't win why would they play

I know nothing about either of these tours, but the problem is always this. If they can't win why would they play? Only 2 reasons that keep weaker players playing stronger ones are 1) to get better and 2) their own love of the game. If they aren't goal oriented to improve they only need to lose a few tournaments and they never come back. That is of course, unless they just don't realize that they have no chance. Those individuals are rare, and keep them close if you can!

Seriously it is very hard to encourage new player participation. Around here we have almost no new players, and eventually they know they can't win. That is unless they do the work to improve. Handicapping weekly events changes little, still the top 15% of the field takes 75% of the cash, always the way it goes. It was that way when I started playing tournaments, seldom cashing for years.
 
cleary said:
The A/B players have the best shot at winning the tournaments. They should want higher entries. The C/D players have a low percentage shot at winning. So to get them in, they gotta pay less. They risk less but also have less of a chance to actually win.

Even with the games on the wire, a C/D player has little chance against an A player. The fire power of a C/D just isn't enough. I know from experience. :)

I've had some good days at the tristate but always get tripped up by an A player.

It's real easy to complain from the top looking down, but put yourself in the shoes of someone who cannot win but still shows up.
Click to expand...

No truer words ever said. How people can argue this is, well; i dunno how they can argue it.
 
scttybee said:
Not trying to start a flame war of any kind...but this
was recently brought up by more then a few players at a local weekend tournament
with all the new tours popping up and some old ones adjusting
how does everyone feel about lower"c or d"players paying less money to enter but then also getting games on the wire?
This by defintion(poolhall definition)is a double handicap
it applies to a b c or d players but obviously the c/d get the best of it

i would love to hear everyones opinion-your rating doesnt matter but you could state it if it aids in your opinion
Click to expand...

Imho I dont have a problem with it as long at it is fair, My picture of a c/d plaer is someone that gets lucky to run three balls in nineball and an A/B player will run 6-9 balls consistantly. So if an A/B player is not consistantly beating a c/d player 9-3, 9-4, or 7-3, 7-2 then maybe he is over rated or is just having a bad day. Also, if that player looses to that C/D player during that match, then he probably would have lost to an A/B player also, just would have taken a little bit longer. Just my opion.

I think it is a great way to get more players to the tournaments and hope it all continues to work on the eastern side of the US like it is. Sounds like some great tours that are drawing big entrys, not like before when I would see 12 people showing up for a $1000 garaunteed tourny. I just hope it doesnt turn into a sandbagging convention in the long run and players continue to try and excell.

oh yeah, as for my speed, not that great, but what we have done in the past since there is no handicapping tournaments in our area and we know that we are donating. We try and get the people that are the same speed as us and all throw in $20 bill in a pot and whoever finishes higher wins the pot. Just a way for a banger to get compensated a little bit and its bragging rights to be the top looser...lol
 
Simplicity in Handicapping

scttybee said:
robin i appreciate the sentiment but thats what i mean-
yes we want full feilds at these tourneys-yes we want to win more than we can at a weekly tourney-but normal handicapping needs to apply-
example when betting on teams in sports you either take the odds or the points-you dont get both
the c/d players are getting both-"x"amount of dollars less and games on the wire
so a/b players start from behind every match unless theyre playing an equal- i know that local guys are going to say thats why they start in separate brackets(most events)thats a third bump for the lower player-now he/she doesnt need to worry about drawing someone who can keep him in the chair till the end of the tourney-its nice for them but its really not entirely fair
Click to expand...

Scttybee,
There are as many different ways to handicap as there are opinions. I get the jest of what you are saying. The only thing I know to tell you is try this:

A to AA to AAA----race the same.

B, C and D----race the same Say two games less than the top race

and see what you get, see if people decide not to play. I think it has a lot to do with the entry fees and the determination of the players to get better.

Have them all pay the same.

That should really please the top players and maybe if the entry isnt too bad its entertainment and lessons for the bottom rung.

336Robin :thumbup:

http://274928807619529663.weebly.com/

Thats just an idea somewhere in the middle. The bulk of the money is coming from the lower players and they could draw two A players and you know they really dont have much of a chance but they do have two games less.
 
cleary said:
The A/B players have the best shot at winning the tournaments. They should want higher entries. The C/D players have a low percentage shot at winning. So to get them in, they gotta pay less. They risk less but also have less of a chance to actually win.

Even with the games on the wire, a C/D player has little chance against an A player. The fire power of a C/D just isn't enough. I know from experience. :)

I've had some good days at the tristate but always get tripped up by an A player.

It's real easy to complain from the top looking down, but put yourself in the shoes of someone who cannot win but still shows up.
Click to expand...


I agree with this 100%.

If you want to have the lower player involved in order to raise both the turnout and the prize pool, then you need to lower the entry fee for them to get them in.

Unless you have a history that shows that your handicapping is good enough that allows a C playerto have the same chance as winning as an A player, then you will not get many to play at the same entry as the big dogs.

Leaguguy
 
joe76195 said:
Why should a "C" player win ? If you play that bad, you should practice, not beg for a spot !
Click to expand...


I am not saying that they SHOULD win. I am simply saying that if they don't have the same chance, then they should not have to pay the same entry fee. Which just so happens to be the context of this thread.

Whether a C player SHOULD win is another topic all together. You should start a thread on that and I would be interested to see what opinions you get.

Leagueguy
 
LeagueGuy said:
I am not saying that they SHOULD win. I am simply saying that if they don't have the same chance, then they should not have to pay the same entry fee. Which just so happens to be the context of this thread.

Whether a C player SHOULD win is another topic all together. You should start a thread on that and I would be interested to see what opinions you get.

Leagueguy
Click to expand...

Agreed. If you don't have the same chance, you shouldn't have to pay the same entry. If you want the B's & C's to pony up the $$, go to a ball shot handicap.
 
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