Harder To Jump With Polished Balls?

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
I've only owned a jump cue for about 6 months or so. I can't think of any shot that has given me more trouble over the last 50+ years than the jump shot. I have watched videos and read about how to jump in books and on these threads. I've never had a problem learning how to do things like this before.

I think I know the problem now. I keep my pool balls and QB very clean and highly polished all the time. I have Tour Edition cloth stretched like a drum skin. I have a Valley that has 3/4" slate. I believe what is happening is the QB starts sliding forward before it grabs the cloth to go airborn. Does this sound right? Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
I've only owned a jump cue for about 6 months or so. I can't think of any shot that has given me more trouble over the last 50+ years than the jump shot. I have watched videos and read about how to jump in books and on these threads. I've never had a problem learning how to do things like this before.

I think I know the problem now. I keep my pool balls and QB very clean and highly polished all the time. I have Tour Edition cloth stretched like a drum skin. I have a Valley that has 3/4" slate. I believe what is happening is the QB starts sliding forward before it grabs the cloth to go airborn. Does this sound right? Johnnyt
Click to expand...

johnnyt you ask some weird q lol.
 
For me that sounds not right, but maybe I have no clue. :frown:
The only difference I had seen when jumping over the last years, is the thickness of the cloth and the stoneplates under it.

It´s a big time difference it you try to jump on Brunswicks, Sams or let´s say Gabriel Tables.:eek:
This difference is there because of the different manufacturing processes.
The Gabriels have way thicker stone plates then the other two, and the older SAM tables have all metal constructions.

ALL THESE THINGS MAKE A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE WHEN JUMPING !!

So maybe polished balls make a LITTLE BIT of a DIFFERENCE, too.
But that would never be as big as you described, there would only be a diff. in how far whity will be in the air. :wink:
I mean some inches more or less because of the things we mentioned, but not that you would not be able to jump at all.

These are only my 2 cents, but I hope I could help.
Erich
 
Johnnyt said:
I've only owned a jump cue for about 6 months or so. I can't think of any shot that has given me more trouble over the last 50+ years than the jump shot. I have watched videos and read about how to jump in books and on these threads. I've never had a problem learning how to do things like this before.

I think I know the problem now. I keep my pool balls and QB very clean and highly polished all the time. I have Tour Edition cloth stretched like a drum skin. I have a Valley that has 3/4" slate. I believe what is happening is the QB starts sliding forward before it grabs the cloth to go airborn. Does this sound right? Johnnyt
Click to expand...

Sorry but I had to quote you here. The reason is because the anti-jump cue crowd always LOVES to say that a jump cue makes it so that ANYONE can jump in two minutes and that the cue does all the work.

If it's any consolation Yu Ram Cha can't jump either with a jump cue either :-)

Well what I mean is that I watched her dog several fairly standard jump shots because she was set up incorrectly for the shot. Yu Ram actually does jump well but on this day she was not setting up right and not following through.

The answer to your question is no. Clean balls make no difference whatsoever.

The two things that make all the difference are a chalked tip and your technique. Assuming that your jump cue is made to the standard of jump cues over the past 15 years which is ultra hard tip and light weight, 9-7oz at least.

What you want to do is stroke through the ball like you are going to drill right through the table. Focus on making your tip go past the cueball and through the table. YOU WILL NOT HIT THE TABLE!!!!!

REPEAT - YOU WILL NOT HIT THE TABLE.

But you have to stroke as if you will. Otherwise you are pulling up short and losing all the energy and that's why the ball won't jump.

You know how it is when you short stroke a shot and you know as soon as you hit it that you pulled up? That's what is happening when you are a halfway decent player but you can't jump.

Now you do need to make sure you are hitting the ball in the center or close to it. A lot of people line up right and then they lunge forward or drop their shoulder and this causes the tip to go too far up or too far down and changes the angle.

No matter what jump shot you have you need to make sure that your cue tip is splitting the cueball in half so that you know you are at the center. THEN you can adjust a little up or down depending on what spin you want.

The clock face is the same just as it is with a normal shot - you just need to make sure that your cue tip is dead center of the clock no matter what angle. If you do that then you can easily switch angles and find the one that is right for the shot.

How do you find the angle?

Simple, take another object ball and hold it on top of the ball you want to clear. Now mentally draw a line BACK through the center of the top ball to the cue ball. That angle will be the minimum clearance angle you need to get over the ball with a normal stroke.

Now you can cheat by hitting the cue ball much harder and use a lower angle - the harder hit will make the cue ball go higher. But this is something that you will learn with time and get a feel for. The reason you would use speed or force over a medium stroke would be to shorten or lengthen the path of the cue ball - such as jumping a long distance into a small area.

If none of this advice helps you then I suggest you go buy the latest magic jump cue because as everyone always says it's the cue and not the player when it comes to jump cues - don't you agree?
 
JB Cases said:
Sorry but I had to quote you here. The reason is because the anti-jump cue crowd always LOVES to say that a jump cue makes it so that ANYONE can jump in two minutes and that the cue does all the work.

If it's any consolation Yu Ram Cha can't jump either with a jump cue either :-)

Well what I mean is that I watched her dog several fairly standard jump shots because she was set up incorrectly for the shot. Yu Ram actually does jump well but on this day she was not setting up right and not following through.

The answer to your question is no. Clean balls make no difference whatsoever.

The two things that make all the difference are a chalked tip and your technique. Assuming that your jump cue is made to the standard of jump cues over the past 15 years which is ultra hard tip and light weight, 9-7oz at least.

What you want to do is stroke through the ball like you are going to drill right through the table. Focus on making your tip go past the cueball and through the table. YOU WILL NOT HIT THE TABLE!!!!!

REPEAT - YOU WILL NOT HIT THE TABLE.

But you have to stroke as if you will. Otherwise you are pulling up short and losing all the energy and that's why the ball won't jump.

You know how it is when you short stroke a shot and you know as soon as you hit it that you pulled up? That's what is happening when you are a halfway decent player but you can't jump.

Now you do need to make sure you are hitting the ball in the center or close to it. A lot of people line up right and then they lunge forward or drop their shoulder and this causes the tip to go too far up or too far down and changes the angle.

No matter what jump shot you have you need to make sure that your cue tip is splitting the cueball in half so that you know you are at the center. THEN you can adjust a little up or down depending on what spin you want.

The clock face is the same just as it is with a normal shot - you just need to make sure that your cue tip is dead center of the clock no matter what angle. If you do that then you can easily switch angles and find the one that is right for the shot.

How do you find the angle?

Simple, take another object ball and hold it on top of the ball you want to clear. Now mentally draw a line BACK through the center of the top ball to the cue ball. That angle will be the minimum clearance angle you need to get over the ball with a normal stroke.

Now you can cheat by hitting the cue ball much harder and use a lower angle - the harder hit will make the cue ball go higher. But this is something that you will learn with time and get a feel for. The reason you would use speed or force over a medium stroke would be to shorten or lengthen the path of the cue ball - such as jumping a long distance into a small area.

If none of this advice helps you then I suggest you go buy the latest magic jump cue because as everyone always says it's the cue and not the player when it comes to jump cues - don't you agree?
Click to expand...
howdy john
your'e right on with everything said
but i will add, i can definitely jump better,
for example, on a bar table with dirty thick cloth than i can on clean slick simonis
thats ME though, im sure there's people that can do it anywheres
 
Never noticed a difference, clean or dirty balls, The only trouble I have is with Bar Box cue balls, it is harder to get those heavier, bigger balls airborn. (at least for me).

I suspect it is your technique. I find when I am not jumping well that my back hand is not as loose as it should be.
 
Johnnyt said:
I've only owned a jump cue for about 6 months or so. I can't think of any shot that has given me more trouble over the last 50+ years than the jump shot. I have watched videos and read about how to jump in books and on these threads. I've never had a problem learning how to do things like this before.

I think I know the problem now. I keep my pool balls and QB very clean and highly polished all the time. I have Tour Edition cloth stretched like a drum skin. I have a Valley that has 3/4" slate. I believe what is happening is the QB starts sliding forward before it grabs the cloth to go airborn. Does this sound right? Johnnyt
Click to expand...

When simoniz first got popular a lot of players used to think you couldn't jump on it at all because it was too slick. With a full cue, jumping balls is like skipping rocks, a little backspin makes it easier and more controllable. With a really slick situation you may need to hit center ball as JB recommends to keep it from sliding out from under you. I'd try to learn with a full length cue and start out with just going over edges of balls.
 
BHQ said:
howdy john
your'e right on with everything said
but i will add, i can definitely jump better,
for example, on a bar table with dirty thick cloth than i can on clean slick simonis
thats ME though, im sure there's people that can do it anywheres
Click to expand...

It's technique. I say this because when I introduced the Bunjee Jumper I made it a mission to learn to jump on every table, every cloth, with any balls. I had something like ten different cue balls so I could be sure that I was able to jump with any of them. I invested a lot of time learning to teach people how to jump and subsequently taught hundreds if not thousands over the past ten years. In those early years I would be teaching four people at a time.

I will say that some table/cloth combinations do allow jumping more than others. 3/4" slate is harder to jump on than 2" slate. And heavy nap cloth is easier to jump on than worsted wool/nylon blends.

But using a good jump cue the difference is really not much I found.

All it requires is a slight adjustment in speed or force to go from a Valley bar table to a 2" slate Connelly.

But it does get into people's heads that it's MUCH harder or MUCH easier and I have not found that to be the case. I think that this misconception is what causes people to not focus on their setup and to blame the equipment.

With modern jump cues the differences in table conditions are virtually eliminated. Today's jump cues allow the player to focus on their technique and refine it.

When I get back from Valley Forge I intend to do some videos on jumping. I am not really sure what's out there but I haven't really seen much that shows how to jump properly as relates to real game situations. I see plenty where people jump coke bottles and jump with a credit card's width or jump into shoes etc.....

When I was selling the Bunjee - and now to a much lesser degree when I sell the Fury Jump cue and the Jump Break cue - I focused exclusively on the use of the jump cue as a cue and not as a trick shot device. Doing this I was able to help people to learn to jump properly and also how to adjust their stroke and speed for various situations.

I could help Johnny in ten minutes and fix his stroke and have him jumping everything on the bar table.

I am sure of it. But it took me a few years of working with people to get myself to the point where I can do this.

Any one who wants help with their jumping can come and see me at the SBE and I will teach you for free time permitting.
 
JB Cases said:
It's technique. I say this because when I introduced the Bunjee Jumper I made it a mission to learn to jump on every table, every cloth, with any balls. I had something like ten different cue balls so I could be sure that I was able to jump with any of them. I invested a lot of time learning to teach people how to jump and subsequently taught hundreds if not thousands over the past ten years. In those early years I would be teaching four people at a time.

I will say that some table/cloth combinations do allow jumping more than others. 3/4" slate is harder to jump on than 2" slate. And heavy nap cloth is easier to jump on than worsted wool/nylon blends.

But using a good jump cue the difference is really not much I found.

All it requires is a slight adjustment in speed or force to go from a Valley bar table to a 2" slate Connelly.

But it does get into people's heads that it's MUCH harder or MUCH easier and I have not found that to be the case. I think that this misconception is what causes people to not focus on their setup and to blame the equipment.

With modern jump cues the differences in table conditions are virtually eliminated. Today's jump cues allow the player to focus on their technique and refine it.

When I get back from Valley Forge I intend to do some videos on jumping. I am not really sure what's out there but I haven't really seen much that shows how to jump properly as relates to real game situations. I see plenty where people jump coke bottles and jump with a credit card's width or jump into shoes etc.....

When I was selling the Bunjee - and now to a much lesser degree when I sell the Fury Jump cue and the Jump Break cue - I focused exclusively on the use of the jump cue as a cue and not as a trick shot device. Doing this I was able to help people to learn to jump properly and also how to adjust their stroke and speed for various situations.

I could help Johnny in ten minutes and fix his stroke and have him jumping everything on the bar table.

I am sure of it. But it took me a few years of working with people to get myself to the point where I can do this.

Any one who wants help with their jumping can come and see me at the SBE and I will teach you for free time permitting.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I won't be at VF but I will put what I thought might be happening out of my head and practice jumping more the way you said. Johnnyt
 
Technique and tip. I play with perfectly polished balls often and I have no prob jumping (and I jump with my PLAYING CUE). You have to have good technique and your tip can't be mushy (I play with a hard tip).

I'm not knocking jump cues (JB, I love ya brother). I'm just saying it's not the balls.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Technique and tip. I play with perfectly polished balls often and I have no prob jumping (and I jump with my PLAYING CUE). You have to have good technique and your tip can't be mushy (I play with a hard tip).

I'm not knocking jump cues (JB, I love ya brother). I'm just saying it's not the balls.
Click to expand...

It's cool. I jump with my playing cue too when it's the right shot to do it using that cue and I jump with the jump cue when that's the right cue to use.

Come hang out with me at VF and I will change your mind about jump cues or we will just get wasted while I try....

See ya next week!
 
The tip had a lot to do with it for me. I had a Triangle tip on my j/b cue and couldn't get the ball any higher than 1/2 inch.

I changed to a Samsara tip and can now clear a ball most of the time. Of course, I still need practice but the tip made a HUGE difference for me.
 
With the talk about champion Yu Ram Cha having difficulty on jumping balls, I was just wondering. Is it my imagination or do shorter people have more difficulty jumping balls? Does height have anything to do with ability to jump?

I realize there are exception and that John Schmidt is not 6'2" but can jump very accurately but it seems to me that the taller players have FAR LESS trouble jumping.

Conversely, we have a local guy 6'3" who has been playing pool for 40 years and he can't jump AT ALL. He's white but still......

BTW, John, you really gave up a lot of great tips on jumping and the offer to help AZBers time permitting at Valley Forge is awesome. Sorry I won't be there.
JoeyA
 
Johnnyt said:
I've only owned a jump cue for about 6 months or so. I can't think of any shot that has given me more trouble over the last 50+ years than the jump shot. I have watched videos and read about how to jump in books and on these threads. I've never had a problem learning how to do things like this before.

I think I know the problem now. I keep my pool balls and QB very clean and highly polished all the time. I have Tour Edition cloth stretched like a drum skin. I have a Valley that has 3/4" slate. I believe what is happening is the QB starts sliding forward before it grabs the cloth to go airborn. Does this sound right? Johnnyt
Click to expand...

If you think about it friction has a lot to do with jumping. The cue ball has to grab into cloth to compress downward energy and then it springs up from the release of pressure. I've noticed on highly polished balls you have to elevate more to keep the ball from sliding if you use any english on your jump shots. While the difference is very small I believe it does play a role. Less polished balls should jump slightly easier. The same goes to slower cloth. Technique is the largest factor however just like you have to adjust for different speed tables on your normal shots, some adjustments are needed for jump shots.
 
Last edited:
The pool hall where I play puts silicone on the cloth & at times have used car wax a plenty to clean the ball sets.

I don't think about any of it & still do just fine with my jump shots.
 
Thank you all. I just practiced hitting over a hundred balls.I guess it was mainly that I didn't want to put a hole in my cloth or anyone elses. Once I said **** the cloth I started jumping balls. Half ball jump or less I can hit what I'm aiming at. Full ball I have no clue what I'm going to hit. I jump away from the windows. I guess it just takes practicing from here to get the aim part down. I hate practice. Thank you all for the tips. Oh and Joey, I feel short people have a harder time of jumping. I know a lot of the short pros jump very well...but they do everything well also. Johnnyt
 
I've often asked myself that same question. 'Is it harder to jump with polished balls?'
So to find out I took a couple of balls, a fifteen and a four ball I think it was, polished them up real good, placed one in each hand, and jumped. Nothing happened. I jumped again. Still nothing. I don't get it.
Maybe I'm not jumping high enough. :confused:
 
It's really about technique IMO but I do know some tables just jump easier than others. If the games important enough , I always take a jump or 2 to get a feel. I have also noticed that some tables will have dead spots here and there. I mean we're talking poolhall tables so who knows what kinda set up they have but the balls or cloth have never noticably hurt my jumping.
 
Eric. said:
He sez he's been a good player for years, but why is he asking lots of questions a decent player should know already? :confused:


Eric
Click to expand...

Because I never used a jump cue for 50+ years. I always thought they were for sissys...and still do. I bought one because everybodys doing it, and if everybodys doing it, ya got to do it. Johnnyt
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top