Hardships of Professional Pool as a Career

[boogieman]

What do people really want from pool?

To hear a sweet hit and see the 9B drop into center pocket. I'm a simple man.

 

[BasementDweller]

Part of the problem is that we have no way to grow our players.

Not at the junior level or the intermediate. We're all expect to swim in the same pond, where the pros or semi-pros are allowed to get in and devour the guppies.

Lou Figueroa

I've mentioned this before but -- it's even worse for the up and coming US players now since not only do they have to contend with the US pros to cash at Jim Bob's Bar Table Barbecue, but there's inevitably going to be a few international world beaters in the field too. Tough gig.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Part of the problem is that we have no way to grow our players.

Not at the junior level or the intermediate. We're all expect to swim in the same pond, where the pros or semi-pros are allowed to get in and devour the guppies.

Lou Figueroa

There are several Junior tournaments for US juniors, including the US Nationals, the SVB Juniors at the US Open, the junior tournament at the International Open and perhaps some other regional events. I don't know if they still do it, but some of the leagues have junior events.

Sadly, Lindenwood University closed down Mark Wilson's very successful program. Several other instructors, including Roy Pastor, specialize in teaching juniors.

As far as competition at the appropriate level, in this area there are multiple weekly events that juniors can play in, but I think in a lot of areas the problem is that bars don't allow minors and pool halls with weekly tournaments are fewer and farther between than they used to be.

 

[straightline]

Part of the problem is that we have no way to grow our players.

Not at the junior level or the intermediate. We're all expect to swim in the same pond, where the pros or semi-pros are allowed to get in and devour the guppies.

Lou Figueroa

Lightweight composite beds. Framed CF cloth that pops on and off for cleaning.
Now you can have a system a school can conveniently store/roll out for class.
Otherwise the district will buy the 2,000 ping pong tables.

 

[lfigueroa]

There are several Junior tournaments for US juniors, including the US Nationals, the SVB Juniors at the US Open, the junior tournament at the International Open and perhaps some other regional events. I don't know if they still do it, but some of the leagues have junior events.

Sadly, Lindenwood University closed down Mark Wilson's very successful program. Several other instructors, including Roy Pastor, specialize in teaching juniors.

As far as competition at the appropriate level, in this area there are multiple weekly events that juniors can play in, but I think in a lot of areas the problem is that bars don't allow minors and pool halls with weekly tournaments are fewer and farther between than they used to be.

Sure there are some tournaments at the national level for the guppies but day in, day out at the local level, it’s open season.

And juniors can play in lots of events, same as anyone else, and take their lumps.

But my point was that juniors and intermediate players, by and large, have no protections. They’re expected to play in open events. Pool tournaments are not set up to allow competion that allows success at the lower levels of expertise.

Lou Figueroa

 

[skogstokig]

Sure there are some tournaments at the national level for the guppies but day in, day out at the local level, it’s open season.

And juniors can play in lots of events, same as anyone else, and take their lumps.

But my point was that juniors and intermediate players, by and large, have no protections. They’re expected to play in open events. Pool tournaments are not set up to allow competion that allows success at the lower levels of expertise.

Lou Figueroa

aren't many tourneys in the US fargo capped? plus these guppies don't have the living costs that older fishes do, as they often live with their mom and dad. so even if they're playing with 700+ players that are hard to beat, they're bagging valuable experience

 

[Fatboy]

Want security- educate yourself and be happy with what you earn, and have the discipline to live within your means.

Want more out of life- educate yourself, prepare to go broke, fight like hell at every corner and have the discipline to stay with it.

Nobody gets a free pass unless they are generational money. Then you can be dumb, lazy and call the trustee when you screw up.

Pool players aren’t exempt from the harsh reality of life, because they are blessed with talent. Some gifted people are-pick another trade if you don’t like what fruit your talent bears.

It ain’t easy

 

[Bob Jewett]

In order to find viewers, you must first have something for them to watch. I contend that watching dead money for an afternoon or evening is not very entertaining. People want to see the big sticks, not the tadpoles. People want the autographes of The Magnificent 7, not the JV squad.

Which is why I think Matchroom's scheduling of their first US Open (at Mandalay Bay) was perfect. The battle down to the final 16 was let out as a stream, and then they went to a single TV table for the final 15 single-elimination matches. Nothing but champions for three days. In a 256-player tournament, I think the main reason for the bottom half is to pump up room nights at the host hotel.

 

[jay helfert]

Part of the problem is that we have no way to grow our players.

Not at the junior level or the intermediate. We're all expect to swim in the same pond, where the pros or semi-pros are allowed to get in and devour the guppies.

Lou Figueroa

Are you aware of the Junior International Tour produced by Ra Hanna? These are highly successful and well attended events. I suggest you check them out.

 

[jay helfert]

There are several Junior tournaments for US juniors, including the US Nationals, the SVB Juniors at the US Open, the junior tournament at the International Open and perhaps some other regional events. I don't know if they still do it, but some of the leagues have junior events.

Sadly, Lindenwood University closed down Mark Wilson's very successful program. Several other instructors, including Roy Pastor, specialize in teaching juniors.

As far as competition at the appropriate level, in this area there are multiple weekly events that juniors can play in, but I think in a lot of areas the problem is that bars don't allow minors and pool halls with weekly tournaments are fewer and farther between than they used to be.

Bob, you left out the most successful junior events of all, the Junior International Tour produced by Ra Hanna. You of all people must know about this very cohesive and successful junior series of events. I hate to think you have some bias against this tour by not even mentioning it.

 

[JAM]

The are two systems that are important for rating or ranking pool players.

One is the Matchroom rankings. Those rankings are based on how much money a player has won recently in Matchroom-recognized events. This ranking is based on both quality of performance and frequency of participation, but the latter is only important because you can't win money if you don't play. Participation alone won't get you very far by itself, because a bunch of 17-32 finishes will not be a lot of total cash. You have to keep active to not drop off the rankings.

The second system is FargoRate ratings. It does not care about which events you play in. It only looks at your win/loss record against each person you have played and calculates your strength from those games and how high those players are rated. It doesn't even look at match wins, just rack-by-rack. This is the best way known to compare the strengths of players. Almost 300,000 players have FargoRate ratings.

A player's FargoRate does not change much if they stop playing. Because their match/game history is not being added to, their data is not changing. Their rating may change a little as their opponents' ratings move around with new matches. Their old opponents on average may get stronger or weaker and that will affect the inactive player's rating by a few points.

A very good example of an inactive player's rating not changing much is Mike Dechaine. He has rarely played in the last two or three years -- or maybe longer -- and he is rated at 801.

There are probably many good examples in the Philippines of players who have never played in Matchroom events because they don't leave the Philippines but have achieved FargoRate ratings in the high 700s (e.g. Baseth "Kingpin" Mocaibat). And there are many Chinese players who have been unable to play in Matchroom events during Covid and their ratings have not changed. Their rankings -- the Matchroom list -- are zero, of course.

For the player in question, his Matchroom ranking has dropped because he found it too expensive to play in Matchroom-recognized events. His FargoRate rating has dropped because of losses in whatever matches he has played. His reason for playing poorly may be that he has been unable to get "battle hardened" in the premier events, but the direct cause of his rating decline is the decline in his performance.

Thanks for explaining the difference between "ranking," the system based on income and frequency of participation, and "rating," the system used for win/loss ratio of events played. The Fargo rating system is not all-inclusive, interestingly, because when I went to search for several players' names, they were not listed.

That said, your post is probably the most informative in the thread because I never new the difference between ranking and rating.

I do maintain that Matchroom's ranking might work for players who can afford to attend their events around the world, but when Matchroom invites a player to represent their country and that player is not able to go due to finances, this is the so-called "hardship" I was trying to convey in my original post.

Now that I understand the rating system more thoroughly, I believe it is flawed in some respects.

One rating and/or ranking system (not sure which) that has not been mentioned is the WPA. The pro I was referring to is a "card-carrying member" of the WPA, though in today's pool world, how much credibility does the WPA hold? Even Barry Hearn stated he doesn't believe pool will ever make the Olympics.

Oh, Bob, I did let inform my friend that Matchroom has a job opening for a tournament director and sent him the link. Thanks again.

 

[JAM]

Are you aware of the Junior International Tour produced by Ra Hanna? These are highly successful and well attended events. I suggest you check them out.

One of my favorite photos so far in 2023 is this one. I've been rooting for my hometown champion, D'Angelo Jaws Spain, at the Junior International Championships in Roanoke. What a great photo of Ra Hanna and D'Angelo! Ra Hanna is a godsend to the junior players.

By the way, D'Angelo came in second place.

Check it out: Junior International Championships

 

[336Robin]

Part of the problem is that we have no way to grow our players.

Not at the junior level or the intermediate. We're all expect to swim in the same pond, where the pros or semi-pros are allowed to get in and devour the guppies.

Lou Figueroa

America was a huge incubator for Pool Players when there were rooms in every town.

Jobs left and Pool left.

Pool went from Main Street USA to the Side Street Recreation Center. Video games showed up and it moved
to the strip mall at the sports bar. Amateur Leagues showed up and their young adult leagues have replaced the kids
that used to play on Main Street and the Side Street. Kids growing up in the game are missing. You can't replace what
we once had with 2 or 3 youth programs. We are missing Pool Rooms but a revolution in room ownership would take the
next 20 yrs to bear fruit if not longer. People would have to want to be in the Pool Room business.

 

[Guy Manges]

We don't remember and see all, But it's all working well... God bless all.... Ra Hanna must know... Guy

 

[justnum]

Can anyone score a sponsorship deal with a police department or fire department or military?

Bars or pool rooms can serve as community centers in all types of areas. It can be a destination location for people from all walks of life.

 

[lfigueroa]

aren't many tourneys in the US fargo capped? plus these guppies don't have the living costs that older fishes do, as they often live with their mom and dad. so even if they're playing with 700+ players that are hard to beat, they're bagging valuable experience

I'm sure there are some but there are plenty that are not.

I just don't recall seeing the words "Fargo capped" on many tournament posters.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Which is why I think Matchroom's scheduling of their first US Open (at Mandalay Bay) was perfect. The battle down to the final 16 was let out as a stream, and then they went to a single TV table for the final 15 single-elimination matches. Nothing but champions for three days. In a 256-player tournament, I think the main reason for the bottom half is to pump up room nights at the host hotel.

Pretty much like the DCC.

I think some of these tournament arrangements call for some kind of occupancy guarantee.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Are you aware of the Junior International Tour produced by Ra Hanna? These are highly successful and well attended events. I suggest you check them out.

Once again, yes there are bigger international events but I was speaking to whatever opportunities lower level and intermediate guys have nowadays.

I know we have a local player that has competed in international junior events but there is a whole school of his contemporaries that have not and probably never will.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

America was a huge incubator for Pool Players when there were rooms in every town.

Jobs left and Pool left.

Pool went from Main Street USA to the Side Street Recreation Center. Video games showed up and it moved
to the strip mall at the sports bar. Amateur Leagues showed up and their young adult leagues have replaced the kids
that used to play on Main Street and the Side Street. Kids growing up in the game are missing. You can't replace what
we once had with 2 or 3 youth programs. We are missing Pool Rooms but a revolution in room ownership would take the
next 20 yrs to bear fruit if not longer. People would have to want to be in the Pool Room business.

Plus, it's more expensive now just in terms of table time to get better.

In some locales its very prohibitive.

Lou Figueroa

 

[The_JV]

I do maintain that Matchroom's ranking might work for players who can afford to attend their events around the world, but when Matchroom invites a player to represent their country and that player is not able to go due to finances, this is the so-called "hardship" I was trying to convey in my original post.

Ok, so I don't mean this to be as negative as I'm sure you may take it. However I keep seeing you state that this player's "financial inability" to travel to events as a hardship. The honest truth is, he/she just isn't putting enough effort into raising the funds to do so.

There's a ~740 player down the road from me and he manages to do ok as a full time player. Know what he does...? Lessons, tons of lessons, exhibitions, and sells himself for pool room sponsorships. To the best of my recollection, he doesn't have any pool related manufacturing sponsors, (predator, toam, etc). Others slightly down the food chain start GoFundMe accounts when the expensive events come about and it works. I personally wanted to play in the Canadian 10b Championships but maxed out after paying out of pocket for the 9 and 8 ball events. What did I do..? I asked for help and I got it. I was also voluntarily supported by the man who keeps my equipment in shape for me. Thanks Bruno (<- see what I did there?)

The point... Yes I highly doubt that someone who is struggling on the fringe of being considered a pro (based on Fargo), would be able to drum up enough sponsorship to attend everything. Not being able to attend one here and there is more a testament to their commitment than a failure of the system. The idea that this player got an invite to the Worlds and turned it down annoys the crap out of me. Now of course you don't convey how much effort he/she made to collect resources to go. I narrowly missed a chance to go to the Predator World 10 ball. If I got that call, you can guarantee I'd be knocking on doors and selling every square inch of my jersey.

Boils down to how you want it, versus how much you want someone to give it to you.