JoeyInCali said:
No, just like I don't look down at the guys that are making the "pointless" cues of today. (just the crazy prices they get)
Joe
Has anyone ever seen an A-Joint like this? I think it is a early Huebler!!
- Thread starter manwon
- Start date
No, just like I don't look down at the guys that are making the "pointless" cues of today. (just the crazy prices they get)
Joe
If the argument is "who was the better cuemaker"....Bushka vs. Martin, Rambow, Paradise, or whoever else that was his peer at the time, there is absolutely no contest. Bushka was a superior maker with tighter tolrances, the best materials, and a much better fit and finish than any of them. And that was the case until Gina began to hit his stride in the mid to late 60s and then shortly afterwards, Joss, then Gus. Anyone making a statement otherwise simply doesn't know what they are talking about. When I think of Balabushka, I think of the 60s, and there is no doubt that he was the master cuemaker of that era. 
10 years ago I sold a Bushka at the B.C.A. show for $25K. While waiting for the guy's check to clear, I won a local tournament with the cue. It was 26 years after the cue was made, and it played as good or better than anything you can buy today.
But how many cues made today will be winning tournaments in 2033?
But how many cues made today will be winning tournaments in 2033?
Cuaba said:
I don't want any part of the Bushka/Good Bushka/Bad argument cause I don't have any idea. However, are you telling me that you played with a cue AFTER receiving a check for $25K? If I was the buyer, I would kick you square in the nuts. I could understand a players cue, or even a higher end production cue MAYBE. But if I cut you a $25K check, you better put it in a safe place til I get it. Wow.
Hey, technically the Celtic Prince cue was pointless.classiccues said:No, just like I don't look down at the guys that are making the "pointless" cues of today. (just the crazy prices they get)
Joe
I like the furniture bolt remarks. What would we all try to use if not for the manufactures out there making joint screws for us. Not much was availible at the time. Do all the cuemakers out here now know enough or have the equipment to make their own joint screws. Sure would slow down the cue making process. Not even access to all-thread rod was what it is today.
Pre-made Ring billets,washers, doweled shaft wood, ferrules, SS joints, Blanks for sneakys etc.etc. What percentage of premade items can you use and still be called a Custom Cue Maker and not just assembler? 5% 10%? How many "cuemakers" go buy Smelke blanks rather than make their own splice, when they need a cheaper Sneaky for one of their customers?
Some of Georges rings were made of silver coins because of the lack of material out there in his time. Got a 20-ton stamping press to make your own rings? Lots of wasted sheet compared to cost for a few rings.
Then as Today some people felt the feel of the full splice was King. So George used blanks from people who built the best full splice blanks. How many today build full splice? Very small group out of the hundreds out here. Deep Vee short splice was done to mimic a full splice look. Doesn't play the same. The demand was for "Full Splice". If the demand today was for full splice, what would you do? Purchase all the equipment, build all the jigs and Spend years trying to perfect your process or go buy from someone who has already done it and is willing to sell them to you at a much cheaper cost. How many today purchase Cored forearms from other sources? Not everyones set up to Gun drill.
The "A-joint" came about as an attempt to alter the look of the full splice and do something different by adding beauty rings above the wrap. Then he had to try and come up with ways to "bolt" it back to together. We all have different ways of doing that today. He was looking to separate his work from others. No different today.
I'm not knocking anyones opinion on what consitutes a "cuemaker" or "cue assembler", but I'm sure "cue makers" and "cue assemblers", 40-60 years from now will sit and laugh at a lot of our ways of making cues today.
Damn I wish someone would start a good thread on tech and construction technics, as this thread is only fun one of interest right now
Smile gentlemen and have a Happy holiday! Merry Christmas!
Dan
Pre-made Ring billets,washers, doweled shaft wood, ferrules, SS joints, Blanks for sneakys etc.etc. What percentage of premade items can you use and still be called a Custom Cue Maker and not just assembler? 5% 10%? How many "cuemakers" go buy Smelke blanks rather than make their own splice, when they need a cheaper Sneaky for one of their customers?
Some of Georges rings were made of silver coins because of the lack of material out there in his time. Got a 20-ton stamping press to make your own rings? Lots of wasted sheet compared to cost for a few rings.
Then as Today some people felt the feel of the full splice was King. So George used blanks from people who built the best full splice blanks. How many today build full splice? Very small group out of the hundreds out here. Deep Vee short splice was done to mimic a full splice look. Doesn't play the same. The demand was for "Full Splice". If the demand today was for full splice, what would you do? Purchase all the equipment, build all the jigs and Spend years trying to perfect your process or go buy from someone who has already done it and is willing to sell them to you at a much cheaper cost. How many today purchase Cored forearms from other sources? Not everyones set up to Gun drill.
The "A-joint" came about as an attempt to alter the look of the full splice and do something different by adding beauty rings above the wrap. Then he had to try and come up with ways to "bolt" it back to together. We all have different ways of doing that today. He was looking to separate his work from others. No different today.
I'm not knocking anyones opinion on what consitutes a "cuemaker" or "cue assembler", but I'm sure "cue makers" and "cue assemblers", 40-60 years from now will sit and laugh at a lot of our ways of making cues today.
Damn I wish someone would start a good thread on tech and construction technics, as this thread is only fun one of interest right now
Smile gentlemen and have a Happy holiday! Merry Christmas!
Dan
JoeyInCali said:Hey, technically the Celtic Prince cue was pointless.
There might have been points where the weave intersected...
JV
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Bushka chopped off fullsplice to add C rings?Dman said:
Bolts wuttever. Nothing in cue materials really is made solely for cuemaking I think. Except Uniloc quick release pins.
No Problem
Believe me, I took special care of that cue during the tournament. And many of the players were friends who wouldn't have let anything bad happen.
Regardless of what many people here think, you can't hurt a Balabushka by playing with it.
And property doesn't officially change hands until the funds have.
shakes said:
Believe me, I took special care of that cue during the tournament. And many of the players were friends who wouldn't have let anything bad happen.
Regardless of what many people here think, you can't hurt a Balabushka by playing with it.
And property doesn't officially change hands until the funds have.
Dman said:
Dan,
George bought both a long splice AND a short splice from Burton Spain. Later on in his career he bought shorties from Gus. The rings above the wrap, was started by Paradise. George probably felt the need to have a similar design in case it was requested. Except I can theorize he did not like the bakelite above the wrap as I have not seen any with the swirls above the wrap. (not that I remember) Most of Georges "Bushka" rings, or ring pacs, involve the use of phenolics in lieu of the more brittle plastic.
George was one of the first to use the all steel joint, as opposed to brass, Bushka rings are not so called because they were made by Rambow, he redefined or finessed the use of pearl inlays. His styles are still mimicked today. His smooth leather wraps are the best, anyone with an original Bushka will attest to that. He had a keen eye for flow and inlay patterns. Things that go overlooked when one minimizes his contributions to cuemaking.
JV
(QUOTE) Nothing in cue materials really is made solely for cuemaking I think. Except Uniloc quick release pins.
Almost all the products we buy today are made for cue making. Maybe not the raw material, but to the size and specs of the parts we use , They are manufactered for cue making. Going direct to the source of the material and asking them to make a custom size part would be "Cost prohibitive" in small runs, if we all had to go that route.
Today we have great resources for items "stocked" by companies that supply us with our needs. Go to a manufacture direct and see what your min. order is for both sizes of nickel silver or even aluminum rings, if they are not already making the size we use.
What do you think "self-aligning Joint" screw min. order would be? 30 years in aerospace fastener business I can tell you a "custom made " bolt on the low side, will cost 1200.00 -1500.00 every time you order for a short run. Some Screw machine shops won't even start a run under 5000.00! Oh and you will need a professional Drawing with raw material specs, heat treat requirements and on and on.
The super black phenolic tubing we like to use is done to specs we require in color,is stocked by cue supply companies. Find out the cost and min. order for tubing with the ID. and OD. we use and go order direct. You won't like it and would look for another cheaper material.
We are willing to pay the asking price to the cue supply guy because most of us can't absorb the cost of the factories min. order requirements. Do you actually think manufactures, just happen to make and always "stock" tubing with the "correct" ID. and OD or color of the tubing "we" use. No. Not always. A lot of times the Cue supply Guy has to have it made with a Min order. from a factory or he's going to have to wait till Boeing or somebody else orders that size and the factory has over run stock from a larger order.
So to say nothing we use is made solely for cue making is highly inaccurate. Almost all of the items we use are "manufactured" for cue making. Not talking raw material here, but to the finished or packaged product we all purchase.
Almost all the products we buy today are made for cue making. Maybe not the raw material, but to the size and specs of the parts we use , They are manufactered for cue making. Going direct to the source of the material and asking them to make a custom size part would be "Cost prohibitive" in small runs, if we all had to go that route.
Today we have great resources for items "stocked" by companies that supply us with our needs. Go to a manufacture direct and see what your min. order is for both sizes of nickel silver or even aluminum rings, if they are not already making the size we use.
What do you think "self-aligning Joint" screw min. order would be? 30 years in aerospace fastener business I can tell you a "custom made " bolt on the low side, will cost 1200.00 -1500.00 every time you order for a short run. Some Screw machine shops won't even start a run under 5000.00! Oh and you will need a professional Drawing with raw material specs, heat treat requirements and on and on.
The super black phenolic tubing we like to use is done to specs we require in color,is stocked by cue supply companies. Find out the cost and min. order for tubing with the ID. and OD. we use and go order direct. You won't like it and would look for another cheaper material.
We are willing to pay the asking price to the cue supply guy because most of us can't absorb the cost of the factories min. order requirements. Do you actually think manufactures, just happen to make and always "stock" tubing with the "correct" ID. and OD or color of the tubing "we" use. No. Not always. A lot of times the Cue supply Guy has to have it made with a Min order. from a factory or he's going to have to wait till Boeing or somebody else orders that size and the factory has over run stock from a larger order.
So to say nothing we use is made solely for cue making is highly inaccurate. Almost all of the items we use are "manufactured" for cue making. Not talking raw material here, but to the finished or packaged product we all purchase.
Dman said:
Man, you've been dealing with the wrong people. I had 1048 radial pins made all guaranteed to be within .0005 of the sample that was supplied for 1,200.00 out the door. In 1993 when Sherm and myself were partners we had a supply of around 1.000 5/16X12 brass inserts for old Brunswick cues. we ordered 96 feet of rolled stainless rod to fit the inserts for 2.00 a foot.
Up until about 2 years ago I bought all of my phenolics directly from the manufacturer. It was rolled double black linen phenolic rod and I also got melamine ferrule material and Natural colored phenolics from the same place. It would take around 5 weeks for the order to be made but it was made to my exact size specifications. If I wanted .620 by .900 then that is what they would make. Their minimum order was 75.00 per item and 250.00 total order and their price was approximately 25% less than Atlas or Prathers. If you have a lathe then I can think of no item that you shouldn't be able to make yourself other than bumpers and you could do that if you really felt industrious.
There are now a few pins made to weird special threads and a couple of cue makers such as Joss, Mcdermott and Viking who have custom bumpers made but all others are just plain old stock rubber bumpers for chairs and appliances and such. I've never bought large amounts of nickle silver rings but you can get aluminum rings much cheaper than Atlas sells them for if you research the Thomas Register.
Dick
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Dick your right, If we all do our research, we can and do find cheaper sources than the cue supply guys. but someone is buying from them. Or they would not be in business. I do my best as a little guy to cut cost and look for products outside the main stream suppliers. but not being a full time big cue maker as yourself, its sometimes hard for me to meet the mins at the factories. Some items its easier to pay more for the small qty. I need right now, at my level than, bust out 1200.00 for an order of pins.
So I have to assume you never now or never in the past in your cue making career, purchased any items used in your cues from any of the cue parts suppliers? Thats great! And yes with a lathe you can make almost any item we need, but at some point the cost in time making every item we use, could out weigh the benifit. Do you make your own veneers also?
Purchase only raw lumber and never purchase blanks?
Dick, You are a great Cuemaker, and produce beautiful work.
My only point was a lot of people do purchase items from these sources, and its much easier to find some of these items today than it was 40 years ago for some of the old cuemakers in the past.
He-He forty years from now some cuemakers will look at the radial pin, great as they are, and think " What were they using that old thing for"
Just having fun with you Dick. Happy Holidays
So I have to assume you never now or never in the past in your cue making career, purchased any items used in your cues from any of the cue parts suppliers? Thats great! And yes with a lathe you can make almost any item we need, but at some point the cost in time making every item we use, could out weigh the benifit. Do you make your own veneers also?
Purchase only raw lumber and never purchase blanks?
Dick, You are a great Cuemaker, and produce beautiful work.
My only point was a lot of people do purchase items from these sources, and its much easier to find some of these items today than it was 40 years ago for some of the old cuemakers in the past.
He-He forty years from now some cuemakers will look at the radial pin, great as they are, and think " What were they using that old thing for"
Just having fun with you Dick. Happy Holidays
Dman said:
I agree with everything that you said. I buy from Atlas quite often. I don't make any metal work that I can buy as it's not that economical but in a pinch I could and would . I buy my Trapper blanks as they have become very popular over the last few years. I don't make my own for a couple of reasons and the main reason is that I'm to old and in to bad of health to want to invest in and take the time to set up more dedicated equipment just for making full splice trappers. They can be bought almost cheaper than the wood would cost to build one. Other than trappers I don't have enough customers interested in full/splice cues to even worry about them. I make a lot of half/splice cues and most people are happy with them. It has never been my intent to build collector or high end cues. My cues are built with quality materials and I believe, are built to last, hopefully. I try to make them look nice but I don't go out of my way to make decorations more precise as that adds a lot of expense to a cue for things that most people wouldn't even notice. My inlays are tight fitting but I use a .0312 end mill so they aren't perfectly sharp which upsets some people on these forums but that's OK with me. Everyone has their own tastes so if they feel they need sharp diamonds or spear inlays there are many cue-makers who can accommodate them - at a price. The extra hand sharpening of the pockets doesn't take a great amount of skill but it does take time and time, I'm afraid, is money. My cues are built for real pool players who want a nice looking custom cue, built to their specs at a price that won't make them feel their paying for a son to go to Harvard. I, myself, like traditional looking half/splice cues with a little Ivory here and there. Most of the cues that I build I believe are rather gaudy in my opinion But that is what my client base want. Most are younger men who want inlays on top of inlays.
Merry Christmas to you Mr. D-man and have a safe New Years,
Dick
Now it's a break jump!!!
I had a Phillipine made cue not long ago that was assembled just like that one...JER
Eric Wynne
Banned
I have also seen the Schuler cues with this method ... Shane Waltrip has one that broke at the A joint and asked me to repair and I told him to send it back to Schuler , and they agreed to repair it . It was also done in that manner ...
I have also seen the Schuler cues with this method ... Shane Waltrip has one that broke at the A joint and asked me to repair and I told him to send it back to Schuler , and they agreed to repair it . It was also done in that manner ...
UGH!
I'll stick to long tenon and wood threads.
I found that as well on a Schuler. Also the butt cap had no sleeve and was just flat and held in place with a screw.
Balabushkas are like that. On all my cues I use a 2 inch X 5/8th tenon.
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