Has Ball In Hand taken position play and shot making out of the Game

BarneyCalip

BarneyCalip

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ball in Hand was started to speed up the game but it has affected the game.

It has made kick safeties extremely important, if you can’t kick you lose.
If you can’t jump you lose, and yes jump cues make it easy to jump.

When a player get’s out of position today, he ducks and hides, I am so tired of this!!! :angry:

Why should a player get rewarded by ducking and hiding when he get’s out of shape? :yikes:

That is why when I gamble, I play roll out. :smile:

I would like to see gambling live streams played this way. :thumbup:

What do you think, Barney :scratchhead:
 
BarneyCalip said:
Ball in Hand was started to speed up the game but it has affected the game.

It has made kick safeties extremely important, if you can’t kick you lose.
If you can’t jump you lose, and yes jump cues make it easy to jump.

When a player get’s out of position today, he ducks and hides, I am so tired of this!!! :angry:

Why should a player get rewarded by ducking and hiding when he get’s out of shape? :yikes:

That is why when I gamble, I play roll out. :smile:

I would like to see gambling live streams played this way. :thumbup:

What do you think, Barney :scratchhead:
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why should a football team be able to punt the ball away if they cannot get a first down?
 
hmmm

rrich1 said:
why should a football team be able to punt the ball away if they cannot get a first down?
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Exactly, every other sport can play defense, but NOT pool? And it is not like all safties are gimme's anyways. They screw up the safety, they could sell out as well. It take some talent to effectively hide whitey....

Plus, many times when the table is not a high run probablity, you are looking for the safety after a few balls, or some balls are moved to better spots, to complete run out later. A strategy that should and is rewarded.....
 
This is ridiculous. Ball in hand has ALWAYS been there. Back 40 years ago, it was ball in hand after 2 fouls (hence the term 2-shot-shootout...or as you called it, rollout). Then they went to ball in hand after one foul. It has not changed the game at all. It's only your perception. Defense and safety play has been a part of pool for 100 years. It's not like it something new. If you personally don't like it, then play by any rules you want to. All you have to do is get your opponent to agree to them before you start.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

BarneyCalip said:
Ball in Hand was started to speed up the game but it has affected the game.

It has made kick safeties extremely important, if you can’t kick you lose.
If you can’t jump you lose, and yes jump cues make it easy to jump.

When a player get’s out of position today, he ducks and hides, I am so tired of this!!! :angry:

Why should a player get rewarded by ducking and hiding when he get’s out of shape? :yikes:

That is why when I gamble, I play roll out. :smile:

I would like to see gambling live streams played this way. :thumbup:

What do you think, Barney :scratchhead:
Click to expand...
 
Are you implying that safety play has no place in pool?

If so, i do not agree.

Unless you mean something else by "ducking & hiding".

SLIM

barneycalip said:
ball in hand was started to speed up the game but it has affected the game.

It has made kick safeties extremely important, if you can’t kick you lose.
If you can’t jump you lose, and yes jump cues make it easy to jump.

When a player get’s out of position today, he ducks and hides, i am so tired of this!!! :angry:

Why should a player get rewarded by ducking and hiding when he get’s out of shape? :yikes:

That is why when i gamble, i play roll out. :smile:

I would like to see gambling live streams played this way. :thumbup:

What do you think, barney :scratchhead:
Click to expand...
 
Good Points

rrich1 and ChicagoRJ, I see your points and it does take skill to perform a safety. I am amazed at Efrens kicks.

I still say why should you be rewarded when you get out of position.

Take Care, Barney
 
BarneyCalip said:
Ball in Hand was started to speed up the game but it has affected the game.

It has made kick safeties extremely important, if you can’t kick you lose.
If you can’t jump you lose, and yes jump cues make it easy to jump.

When a player get’s out of position today, he ducks and hides, I am so tired of this!!! :angry:

Why should a player get rewarded by ducking and hiding when he get’s out of shape? :yikes:

That is why when I gamble, I play roll out. :smile:

I would like to see gambling live streams played this way. :thumbup:

What do you think, Barney :scratchhead:
Click to expand...

I actually think it has improved position and shot making ability.

When you said "When a player get’s out of position today, he ducks and hides, I am so tired of this!!! :angry:" It made me think that maybe your looking at it wrong. Playing safe is a big part of the game. So is getting out of safes, maybe this is a area of your game you could work on a little more. Maybe not, since I dont know how you play, but if your getting angry about someone playing a safety on you the problem may be you, not the game. Please take that constructively, I dont mean any disrespect.
 
BarneyCalip said:
rrich1 and ChicagoRJ,

I still say why should you be rewarded when you get out of position.

Take Care, Barney
Click to expand...

Playing a safety is not a reward for bad position play. Sometimes I play safe on the first shot if there is no better options, is it a reward in that case? No. It's just the smart thing to do.....imo
 
BarneyCalip said:
rrich1 and ChicagoRJ, I see your points and it does take skill to perform a safety. I am amazed at Efrens kicks.

I still say why should you be rewarded when you get out of position.

Take Care, Barney
Click to expand...



You are not awarded for getting out of position. You are awarded for playing a good safe. These are two different things. You can get out of position and try and play and safe that ends up with your opponent running out. How is that a award?
 
ball in hand

As Scott stated it has always been part of at least 9 ball. It did for me personally change the types of stratagies I employed. When I 1st learned to play 9 ball in Texas, it was "2 shot 9". (I always found it odd that they tagged 1 shot foul "Texas Express" as I never saw that played while I lived there.) In "2 shot 9" if I didn't like the position I was in I could roll out to a position I considered advantagous to me over my opponent. I often rolled into a difficult bank shot as I was proficient at banks. It was more of a chess match IMHO than 1 shot foul. I could tempt my opponent to take a risky shot I thought I was better at. After I had already excuted several bank shots my opponents often felt compelled to take a shot they were not comfortable with for fear that I would make it if they didn't take the shot. It could become a very complex phycological contest that I found interesting.

He could of course take the shot, return it to me or take a safe shot from that position. It allowed different opportunities, more jousting for position. It was often indeed a longer game & at times very interesting. However at the end of the day both versions require skill to execute successfully. While from a nostalgic point I would love to play "2 shot 9" I have never had any quams with playing "Texas Express" 1 shot foul, ball in hand. Just some of my personal observations.

Good luck & good pool

Billy Bones :thumbup:
 
BarneyCalip said:
rrich1 and ChicagoRJ, I see your points and it does take skill to perform a safety. I am amazed at Efrens kicks.

I still say why should you be rewarded when you get out of position.

Take Care, Barney
Click to expand...

Being able to push after you make a ball and fail to get position is rewarding you when you get out of position.
Sixth-Time-e1314312992816.jpg
 
You Got Me Thinking

Scott you got me thinking, yes I do pay safeties when it comes to 14.1. I also play safe in One Pocket. In our weekly ring games we always play shoot to hit. I also play safe in 8 ball. I just don’t do it in 9 ball hmmm you got me thinking? Thanks, Barney.

Slim, yeah that’s it I just don’t like the ducking and hiding. I don’t like it when it happens when I am watching the Pro’s play. I understand that these are the rules and abide by them, Thanks

Cryden, when I play in 9 ball tournaments this happens to me in every game. I don’t get angry when this happens because it is part of the tournament rules. I learned a long time ago never to get angry when you are playing pool. I just shoot my way out of it.

Bert Schrager introduced me to 3 cushion billiards. Bert took me to North Hollywood where I would watch Frank Torres and Allen Gilbert play. I also learned a lot from Harry Sims and the Hawk. I have no problems kicking. Cryden o disrespect taken, Take Care, Barney

Billy Bones and Blackballed thanks for the input and you are both right. Yes, I am nostalgic and maybe you can stil teach and old dog new tricks, Barney
 
Fast Lenny said:
Not if you play one pocket, a shot that I make sure to practice using different english on the cue ball.
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Well sure. The spot shot also comes up in straight pool. But it's not like when all balls spotted in nine ball.

Back when, the spot shot was part of EVERYONE'S practice routine.
 
Absolutely ruined the game. Ball in hand after two fouls is an entirely different game.
Play 10 ball with modified WPA rules such as are played on the Predator Tour.
This takes away the muffed missed shot, which occurs more than some care to admit. You have to call a shot or a safety each shot. No more two-way-if-I-miss-you're-screwed-if-I-don't-I'm-out. The IF is removed. Much, much better game.
 
Pushout said:
Absolutely ruined the game. Ball in hand after two fouls is an entirely different game.
Play 10 ball with modified WPA rules such as are played on the Predator Tour.
This takes away the muffed missed shot, which occurs more than some care to admit. You have to call a shot or a safety each shot. No more two-way-if-I-miss-you're-screwed-if-I-don't-I'm-out. The IF is removed. Much, much better game.
Click to expand...

I thought we determined you were wrongwronwrong last time through this?!;):D

All you people wanting to step back in time need to man up and play ball in had after any miss.

No more if-you-dont-like-it-then-you-can-pushout.
 
BarneyCalip said:
Ball in Hand was started to speed up the game but it has affected the game.

It has made kick safeties extremely important, if you can’t kick you lose.
If you can’t jump you lose, and yes jump cues make it easy to jump.
Click to expand...

It's the players with no hands that the ball in hand rule has really handicapped.
 
The most impressive safety play (IMHO) is in 14.1. It's pretty easy to roll somewhat safe in rotation games, and even one pocket gets pretty routine, cause it's (usually) easy to cut off most options...but straight pool really makes you work hard for it! I can watch two good players bunt back and forth as long as they can and never grow tired of it...the longer the battle the more impressive. I love watching safety battles in 9 ball, too, but let's face it, you're really only protecting one ball. In one pocket, you're protecting one pocket. In 14.1, well now, you're protecting 6 pockets from as many as 15 balls...talk about strategy!

And yes, I too prefer rules that make you call all balls and all safeties, whatever the game.
 
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