Have Yale heard the WPA nonsense and the US Open?

I also appreciate those that serve their own interests while promoting pool.

Players shouldn't be the only ones making easy money.

For a few days work all a player does is play a game, promoters work all year for one event.

Thats like millions of hours to lose money mostly.

chefjeff said:
Perhaps it is still too early for wanting one organization for all the world's pool players.

I'm kind of in the spontaneous-order camp where I like having various entities trying to do what each one can, in spite of what the rest are trying to do. I think this will yield the best outcome by having the best, most successful group winning the day via competition.

Grabbing onto the entity of the day and hoping is one strategy. But perhaps the next group will have better systems and answers. Who knows until it happens?

With that said, I'd like to thank everyone here who is working to the betterment of pool worldwide.

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
JAM said:
Instead of helping pool, now WPA joins the ranks with the BCA in doing everything they can to destroy professional pool. :angry:
Click to expand...

I was hoping you would expand on this or that someone else would comment but this is a legitimate question and not a smart ass reply. What is CSI doing to destroy pool?
Maybe someone else can answer if they know, JAM may have a little more insight with her connections though.
 
Mark Griffin said:
Gideon,

They must be members to play. No different than any other event. That is not prohibiting anything.

The link I followed was from 2009. I know they don't charge anywhere near the 7.5%. Not here to argue - just telling you what actually occurs. I think you'll find the website is out of date.

Mark


​
Click to expand...

It is one thing for an organization like the PGA Tour to require players to join in order to play in their events (and control, to some extent, their participation in other events). They are an organization with a long history, they have a demonstrated ability to grow their game, and attract fans (everyone talk about sponsors, but without fans there are no sponsors) and make almost everyone that is good enough, rich. But they didn't start that way.

The PGA Tour EARNED THE RIGHT to control the players, to some extent, because they made the players rich. The WPA, OTOH has no such history, is not professionally run (website 7 YEARS out of date??) and offers the players nothing in return for their commitment. It really doesn't matter, because no matter how you rearrange the money and control, the thing that keeps the money out of pool is that it does not have an economically viable fan base. And with pool halls disappearing everywhere around the country, it is unlikely that the fan base is going to all of a sudden expand.
 
NlceGuy said:
There is only one thing that can help pool, and that is sponsorship money. The benefit of having a contract like this is that it guarantees a body of respectable pool players willing to participate in sponsored events. Sponsors working with WPA would know that all the players with membership will be inclined to show up, act respectable, and promote the event rather than jet for other events that pay well. This would give more confidence to potential sponsors with money knowing their event won’t flop due to lack of player participation.

Players themselves are shortsighted and don’t see immediate benefit, but if they look at this from the sponsorship point of view this is only a plus for them too. A more organized body of pool players means a more attractive sponsorship opportunity, not just towards existing major events, but even potential events with money. More WPA sanctioned events means more control over schedule, and with a little organization players would have less schedule conflicts. In the long run, having more events to play in, more sponsorship money and hopefully a better competitive stage would only benefit the players.

If we want the sport to grow the players must be organized and responsible for participating in sponsored events, and this WPA contract semi-guarantees that. The requirements on the players is actually a lot less restrictive than many of the other major sports (pga, atp… etc.), and to previous posters saying they pay better, that is true but they are paid due to sponsored events also, having a tour card definitely does NOT guarantee you a salary. (It just looks that way because often times these other sports have events where the last place finisher are being paid better than pool’s first :frown:)

All that being said, nobody can say for sure if WPA really has the right people with the right vision for the job. I do know that there are a lot of pool fans around the world, especially in Asia and the middle-east area, and those places have a lot of people willing to put serious money into the sport. There are also many companies around the world making pool products that are raking in some serious money, but they see no incentive to sponsor players or events because there is simply no set stage for these top pro players to perform on. Something needs to change and this is a logical first step, and I’m optimistically hoping that WPA sees it this way too.
Click to expand...

Sponsors don't come without viewers. The NFL isn't hurting for sponsors because they're getting sick tv ratings. As long as pool broadcasts command a lower audience than cooking shows it's going to be a struggle to find sponsors who are willing to put more than a few bucks into the sport.
 
KissedOut said:
It is one thing for an organization like the PGA Tour to require players to join in order to play in their events (and control, to some extent, their participation in other events). They are an organization with a long history, they have a demonstrated ability to grow their game, and attract fans (everyone talk about sponsors, but without fans there are no sponsors) and make almost everyone that is good enough, rich. But they didn't start that way.

The PGA Tour EARNED THE RIGHT to control the players, to some extent, because they made the players rich. The WPA, OTOH has no such history, is not professionally run (website 7 YEARS out of date??) and offers the players nothing in return for their commitment. It really doesn't matter, because no matter how you rearrange the money and control, the thing that keeps the money out of pool is that it does not have an economically viable fan base. And with pool halls disappearing everywhere around the country, it is unlikely that the fan base is going to all of a sudden expand.
Click to expand...

Leagues at bars are overcoming the pool hall deficit, imho.

League players now know what good pool really is, compared to 20 years ago or so. Back then a league player didn't know squat about the big picture. Today's league player does...Not all of them, of course, but generally speaking the avg league player knows good pool when he sees it and many of us appreciate that enough to sometimes pay to watch.

You're right as rain about needing fans before sponsors give a crap about any of it. Marketing is the highest value in any business, pool being no different. But most folks don't like marketing. It is hard, tiresome, scary, can be boring, costly, very costly, etc. But without it being first, nothing much follows.

Now, get out there and sell something!!!!






Jeff Livingston
 
Bob Jewett said:
Yes, someone is. In fact there was a cue sports drug test failure five or ten years ago. I can't find any links to it which is just as well since it was some kind of prescription drug confusion, IIRC. I don't think cue sports have many PEDs available.

I think it was recently decided that WADA itself would be in charge of the testing rather than labs selected by the sports organizations. Maybe that was fall-out from the Rio Games.

In order to maintain international recognition the WPA/WCBS must have some level of testing. International competitors can potentially be tested at any time.
Click to expand...


Bob, you have brought up another very important point, it's very similar to the point I brought up ( in reference to how would it be handled with it being legal in some states where tournamentshe take place or at the least the play may just happen to live there ) and in actuality yours is even more important. Medical use. There are lots of people in severe pain and the find some level of relief by using medical marajuana. The government is shoving down our throats all day how badnmedications used for pain relief is for us but yet an out on that is 10000 times safer is available. So should these folks with legitimate ailments under a Dr's care not be allowed to take their prescribed medication just because some foreigner half a world away decides arbitraryly that they shouldnt? So what, male the player chose between suffering all day everyday and be able to try to make their own living and not go for public assistance OR make them risk their livelyhood just to take medicine prescribed by a Dr? It doesn't make sense and just isn't right. Someone probably sitting over in Europe somewhere making these decisions when they probably know little to nothing of OUR culture and OUR laws! Just chalk this up as one more messed up thing about this contract !
 
fastone371 said:
I was hoping you would expand on this or that someone else would comment but this is a legitimate question and not a smart ass reply. What is CSI doing to destroy pool?
Maybe someone else can answer if they know, JAM may have a little more insight with her connections though.
Click to expand...

The BCA is supposed to be the governing body of pool for North America.

The BCA league is quite different. It is a pool league.

It is confusing that they both share the same acronym.

BCA league used to be owned by BCA governing body of pool.

Eventually, Mark Griffin obtained the BCA league and has been running it since.

Today, the BCA league has nothing whatsoever to do with the BCA governing body of pool.

Two different animals: BCA governing body and BCA league.

Hope that helps.
 
The BCA is always broke when it comes to putting on any events or paying for American players travel to events out of the country, but can pay $15 for reg. for this sign up drive. Very fishy to me. Johnnyt
 
One thing for sure with making the players direct members of the WPA is that the WPA can now overrule a continental federation regarding a player in certain instances. This gives more power over the players to the WPA and less power to their representative continental federations.

This can be good or bad, depending on the situation. The player will no longer have the power of his continental federation going to bat for him should the WPA decide on disciplinary action against a player. OTOH, In instances where his continental federation neglects a player for a particular reason, the WPA may be able to override that decision on his behalf.

However, meddling in the politics of another country can be a questionable maneuver and may have severe consequences for the WPA if they're not careful.
 
Tooler said:
I agree, they're putting the squeeze on ole' CW .......
Click to expand...

In the process of that they are also putting the squeeze on the players who now have fewer opportunities to earn the already limited money in pool. The foreign players who earn a living overseas probably won't agree to this.

It appears to me a way to control who wins the cash. It reminds me of a situation a few years ago when Earl was kicked out of a tournament for talking when Earl wasn't a member of the sponsor's organization. It was suspected the sponsor was worried someone outside his organization would take the cash.

This will turn the US Open into the equivalent of an in-house league. The name should be changed to the US Closed championships. The word open is a misnomer. Is is closed to anybody outside the organization.
 
Last edited:
BmoreMoney said:
Bob, you have brought up another very important point, it's very similar to the point I brought up ( in reference to how would it be handled with it being legal in some states where tournamentshe take place or at the least the play may just happen to live there ) and in actuality yours is even more important. Medical use. There are lots of people in severe pain and the find some level of relief by using medical marajuana. The government is shoving down our throats all day how badnmedications used for pain relief is for us but yet an out on that is 10000 times safer is available. So should these folks with legitimate ailments under a Dr's care not be allowed to take their prescribed medication just because some foreigner half a world away decides arbitraryly that they shouldnt? So what, male the player chose between suffering all day everyday and be able to try to make their own living and not go for public assistance OR make them risk their livelyhood just to take medicine prescribed by a Dr? It doesn't make sense and just isn't right. Someone probably sitting over in Europe somewhere making these decisions when they probably know little to nothing of OUR culture and OUR laws! Just chalk this up as one more messed up thing about this contract !
Click to expand...

If you have a medical condition you would have to apply for a therapeutic use exemption.

When you decide to participate in most sports there is drug testing. High school, college and especially professional athletes are routinely tested.

If you want to see cue sports as an olympic event then there has to be drug testing.
 
Shenanigans said:
If you have a medical condition you would have to apply for a therapeutic use exemption.

When you decide to participate in most sports there is drug testing. High school, college and especially professional athletes are routinely tested.

If you want to see cue sports as an olympic event then there has to be drug testing.
Click to expand...

Nah, that makes way too much sense.
 
BmoreMoney said:
There is no exemption for it in the NFL, which has one of the best, strongest players unions in the world. Make sense now?
Click to expand...

Judging football players contracts vs baseball and basketball I would argue the NFLPA is doing their players a disservice.

I think you will see a shift in allowance of medical marijuana in the future as more scientific papers come forward about the potential benefits. However almost half the states still deem any use of marijuana medicinal or recreational illegal.
 
This is patently absurd...

You can't require a contract without commensurate consideration.

There is absolutely NO consideration here.

The biggest problem with it is the clause requiring players to wear sponsor patches and disallowing sponsor patches that aren't pre approved...

There is WAY too much room for abuse there where players are already so limited in sponsorship fees.

My sponsor is a TAP league conglomerate, what if the APA or BCA is paying for sanctioning and simply say they disapprove of me wearing my shirts or hats with TAP league embroidered on them? AND they want me to wear the other leagues patches??? come on, get real, this contract is a ****ing joke.

Now I no longer get my entry fees paid. My sponsor sees my value drop because now I'm forced to represent their competition, etc...

This is B.S. of the highest order.

Anyone who signs this, is asking for pro pool to just simply be killed.

Jaden
 
Shenanigans said:
Judging football players contracts vs baseball and basketball I would argue the NFLPA is doing their players a disservice.

I think you will see a shift in allowance of medical marijuana in the future as more scientific papers come forward about the potential benefits. However almost half the states still deem any use of marijuana medicinal or recreational illegal.
Click to expand...


I think they ultimately will too but we're not heading in he right direction. Just recently the DEA met to discuss moving MJ from a schedule 1 to a schedule 2 ( of some legitimate medicinal value as opposed to none. It also needs to be schedule 2 to allow full testing . Nope, kept it at schedule 1 in effect saying zero medicinal value AND MJ Is worse for you and more addictive than cocaine lololoool. My personal belief is they do not want any kinda odd real scientific testing done because they already know what it is going to show. Then it would take many billions of dollars out of big pharmas pocket.

As far as half the states still being illegal - this is true but it also means in half of the state's it is. Look at the shift in just the last 10 years, public and all. Now, do I smoke? Nope, but I sure don't have aNY problem with those that do. As to the folks that detest it in all forms, I consider them a very lucky bunch - as they've never had to see someone they care about that is truly sick and in pain and there being a plant that can help them and give some relief but by doing so it makes them a criminal often times.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top