Hear ye, Hear ye: BCA Takes Over Ranking for American Pros
- Thread starter JAM
- Start date
Jerry Forsyth
Well-known member
An idea
OK, so TV is key to pool's future and the big screen in your living room is prohibitively expensive for the sport to fund. But, luckily, the little screen is not and the younger audiences (whom the advertisers crave) watch more computer screens than TV screens. And there are lots of us who feed pool video to the little screen.
Promoters should put us in competition with one another. It will cost any of us somewhere just north or south of $8,000 to attend an event. But if that event is big enough we can sometimes attract sponsors for the event that offset at least a part of that cost. If not, it may be worth it for the sponsor to eat the lowest quote and get the coverage. I urge promoters to contact not just AZBtv for quotes to cover their events, but also TAR, ProPool video out of Florida, NYC Grind out of New York, Inside Pool Magazine, Billiards Digest and anyone else with the equipment and ability to get event coverage on the web. I will supply contact info on these video companies to any promoter who will contact me at jerry@azbilliards.com. If you are a pool video company and I have left you off this list I apologize. Please send me your info and I will get you in-line for the quotes.
AZBtv and AZBilliards will air, for free, any coverage that we are provided from any lens out there. We will help promote the event and the sponsors with that coverage. Part of any promoters demands on video companies might be to interview the major sponsors on-camera. AZB will air that footage as well. And we will keep the match footage on-line for years of continued exposure for the event, the sponsors, and the players.
Cameras are available. Lots of them. Use them and get your events out of the dark. (Oh, I mean that literally. You kill the camera coverage if you demand that only the lights over the tables be turned on. Cameras feed on light and table lights are exactly the type of light that cameras hate. Bring the game out of the dungeons and turn on the lights. Yes, it causes shadows on the table. It does for the other guy as well. Live with it.)
Anyone with ideas on how to attract sponsors to the game and how to make certain those sponsors benefit from their efforts please post or write me. Let's build the game with a team effort.
OK, so TV is key to pool's future and the big screen in your living room is prohibitively expensive for the sport to fund. But, luckily, the little screen is not and the younger audiences (whom the advertisers crave) watch more computer screens than TV screens. And there are lots of us who feed pool video to the little screen.
Promoters should put us in competition with one another. It will cost any of us somewhere just north or south of $8,000 to attend an event. But if that event is big enough we can sometimes attract sponsors for the event that offset at least a part of that cost. If not, it may be worth it for the sponsor to eat the lowest quote and get the coverage. I urge promoters to contact not just AZBtv for quotes to cover their events, but also TAR, ProPool video out of Florida, NYC Grind out of New York, Inside Pool Magazine, Billiards Digest and anyone else with the equipment and ability to get event coverage on the web. I will supply contact info on these video companies to any promoter who will contact me at jerry@azbilliards.com. If you are a pool video company and I have left you off this list I apologize. Please send me your info and I will get you in-line for the quotes.
AZBtv and AZBilliards will air, for free, any coverage that we are provided from any lens out there. We will help promote the event and the sponsors with that coverage. Part of any promoters demands on video companies might be to interview the major sponsors on-camera. AZB will air that footage as well. And we will keep the match footage on-line for years of continued exposure for the event, the sponsors, and the players.
Cameras are available. Lots of them. Use them and get your events out of the dark. (Oh, I mean that literally. You kill the camera coverage if you demand that only the lights over the tables be turned on. Cameras feed on light and table lights are exactly the type of light that cameras hate. Bring the game out of the dungeons and turn on the lights. Yes, it causes shadows on the table. It does for the other guy as well. Live with it.)
Anyone with ideas on how to attract sponsors to the game and how to make certain those sponsors benefit from their efforts please post or write me. Let's build the game with a team effort.
Jerry Forsyth
Well-known member
Blackjack
David, I appreciate your efforts to improve the game. I understand your reluctance to support tournaments but I do not know your alternative. While challenge matches and ring games are very good vehicles they have the downside of not being large enough to support all the players who need an income, so if that is your route I need it to be bigger. The superstars need an income but so do those who do not usually win. Any idea you have that can get pro players off of the bus and onto the Gulfstream will be welcomed with open arms.
AZB is always happy to be the vehicle for any progressive ideas that may surface.
David, I appreciate your efforts to improve the game. I understand your reluctance to support tournaments but I do not know your alternative. While challenge matches and ring games are very good vehicles they have the downside of not being large enough to support all the players who need an income, so if that is your route I need it to be bigger. The superstars need an income but so do those who do not usually win. Any idea you have that can get pro players off of the bus and onto the Gulfstream will be welcomed with open arms.
AZB is always happy to be the vehicle for any progressive ideas that may surface.
I am not sure if the Challenge matches are the way to go all the time. I began the challenge matches here in Phoenix to bring top pro awareness to the area and give a pro pool starved area a boost. Yes it works out and yes it gives the players additional $$ and yes they are less expensive to produce that a major event. The majority of people who watch pool on TV are the pool players could we really ever convince them that only having a couple of tourneys per year and the rest challenge matches is the right thing? However I can say this, since I began doing the challenge matches I think that phoenix pool has seen alot more pro pool attention not only here but all over the country poeople have paid attention. Thats from just little me so you may have a point after all if it is done on a larger scale I think the sport may get a boost.
jay helfert said:
Which specific Asian or European large scale pro events are you talking about that conflicted directly with a world championship?
It IS a moronic thing that Shane Van Boening misses a major pro event in the USA due to that schedualing conflict and that the World 8-ball Championships misses having players like Archer and Immonen at the event because they have a pro event in the states at the same time. All that kind of thing does is further ostrasize the USA pool playing community from an ever growing international field of players.
This sport is getting more and more international, with more and more events that pull players from all over the world. America has been fairly underrepresented because of the way business is done here and the fact that the recent world 8-ball had this direct conflict shows there IS a serious problem. If the UPA thinks it is cute to cause these conflicts and remove alot of the American contingent from the World Championship scene then it is time someone stepped in and changed things and made the USA part of the every growing international pool playing scene because a healthy international pool scene with the best players from all over the world showing up and having these huge tournaments with decent paydays are going to add to the promotion of this sport on a global scale and that will allow it to eventually get more sponsership and become what most people want it to be, a legitimate sport. This is not going to take place if a country like the USA decides to screw with it and makes the World Championships not actually have the top players from one of the major pool playing countries in the world actually taking part.
And if there is ANY indication that the UPA was in fact screwing around and trying to compete with the WPA and marginalize their own events it would be the press release they made now telling their players to boycott the World 9-ball Championships. The UPA are acting like a bunch of children in this instance, and they have done so a lot of the time in the past. Had they acted more as a professional organization trying to work soley for the betterment of the sport this would not have happened.
I am happy for the change, something had to change. Business as usual by the UPA ever since they have taken over has not worked at all. The pool scene in America is weaker now then it ever has been and this is at a time when the pool scene in Asia and Europe are growing. The sport is dying, the popularity of pool as a past time it diminishing, pool halls are closing, pool is NEVER on TV anymore (unless it is a WPA event, go figure), we have less events and the money is worse relative to inflation, the UPA has managed to do nothing more then hurt this sport.
I am not going to defend the UPA in this case, they made this mess take place and they have done little to move this sport forward. The BCA came under new ownership not that long ago and has managed to build a much stronger league structure and amature pool following (not to mention amature ranking system). The new BCA is in a prime position to actually start working to make the pro side of things more popular and successful and they can use their amature leagues and tournaments as a breeding system for the pros of the future. The have had the second most successful pro event after the US Open in this country when looking at both payouts and player quality for years now.
The BCA has been around since 1948. They have been involved in the professional pool scene in America for alot longer then the Johnny come lately UPA and they have done more over the course of their history then the UPA could ever hope to do and most definately more then the UPA seems bothered to put the effort in to do. The BCA also runs the most recognized hall of fame for American professional players. In all reality if it takes over professional pool in the USA and actually puts a strong effort into promoting the sport and creating events, a tour, and a proper ranking system the sport will soon be far better off in this country then it has been under the UPA, which ever since it took control has just managed to make the sport less popular.
Celtic said:
What's this "we" crap. Do you hail from Canada?
I don't even know where to begin with your comments, but maybe the U.S. should concentrate on American pool. For years, we opened our doors and let international players come to our events. In fact, we welcomed them. Let's have a real U.S. Open, open to American players only, the way the other countries do it.
As far as Shane, Corey, and Ronnie Wiseman -- a Canadian, I might add -- going to the Fujairah 8-Ball Championship, they were sent there as UPA representatives. In fact, the UPA selected these players to represent the United States. Do you think Fujairah representatives banned Johnny Archer from competing, but allowed Shane, Corey, and Ronnie?
America is not under-represented because of the way "business is done here." It is because players from other countries came to our events and then took their show on the road, while a WPA made it mighty comfy for European players and ignoring Americans. The WPA holds it hand out to get greased for a little sanctioning fee at every single American tournament they can muster.
And for you to say that the BCA Open is the second-most successful American event is really off the mark. Half of the field is reserved for international players, and the other half are picked behind a curtain by a subcontractor. A ranking system isn't used at all, as history has showed repeatedly year after year.
I say it's time to have American-sanctioned events for American players only. USA, ALL THE WAY!
We have welcomed players from around the world to our events, and this is the thanks we get.
The UPA ain't hurting the sport. It's the WPA and BCA who are getting fat, while the pool players are starving.
Wake up and smell the coffee!
JAM
JAM said:
There is a reason that Asia and the Pacific Islands have the most lucrative events and more successful pool scenes, the people in control there actually work hard to market the sport and they make sure to make the international rivalries cause fans to take more notice and pay attention to the sport. Taiwan and the Phillipines are two huge rivals and the fans from both of those countries love to watch those battles, Japan is also comming up fast. Europe sends their guys there and love to see the competition and match ups of their own best and those countries. And America, it decides to be isolationist. It decides to run it's own tournament in the USA and screw up the World 8-ball Championships and cause the fans of the American players not get to see how the Americans match up against all those other countries, all but SVB who actually went and it was interesting to watch and see how he was doing. It is unfortunate he was alone in his battle there carrying the American flag all by himself.
Ask yourself this Jam, when is the last time America had the WOrld 9-ball Championships? And why do you think that is? Because they want to steal the sport? No, because the American pool scene under the guidance of the UPA has decided to isolate themselves from the international pool scene for the most part and that is not the way to further the sport on a global scale. The USA could have the World 9-ball Championships again but they are not going to be able to manage that until they actually become part of the world pool scene and they are able to market the sport like the other places in the world are managing. And I can guarentee you those people at the UPA were NEVER going to manage to bring the sport where it needs to be in this country, they don't have the knowledge of how to do it and they don't have the ambition. They managed this sport into a downward spiral in the USA.
The best thing for pool in the USA and pool as a whole is to build a strong international pool playing community with multiple decent paying internationally fielded events. Then you market the sport as a battle between the countries, the World Championships have every country send a contingent of their strongest players and then the countries all watch their horses run, hoping that one crosses the finish line in first. You yourself know this well Jam, you are one of the biggest cheerleaders for the American's at every international event. WHen you get this type of thing going you can then advertise the sport much better, you can get sponsers from various countries supporting their own players. Imagine Budweiser as a sponser of the American team and San Miguel as a sponser of the Fillipinos, the strong sense of nationality would be further engrained and those beer companies get international recognition.
There is so much more that can be done for this sport, the UPA was not doing it and nor does it seem they were ever going to get off their asses and actually do it, so I am happy the BCA has the reins, maybe they will actually put some effort in and bring this sport back from the brink it is currently at.
JAM said:
Yes, I hail from Canada, and low and behold we are part of "America". You know Jam, the North "American" continent and all.... And our pool scene and yours are obviously very closely connected, as I am sure you know and thus I have an interest in pool on the "American" continent succeeding as much as you do.
Otherwise, I replied to you directly before I ever read your above post. You actually want to make the USA's pool scene even more isolationist then it already is? You are just asking to put the final nail into the coffin of this sport. America's problem is that it is already not taking part, if we go even further down that path we all might as well ship our cues to Asia and buy some golf clubs.
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Celtic said:
Isolationist?
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
HOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO!
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
I don't think you understand fully the whole UPA story.
The BCA -- the organization you hold in high esteem -- granted an unknown entity to be the governing body of professional pool for men. After receiving sponsorship(s), this unknown entity jumped ship and took his show on the road, stuffing his pockets, if you will, from his affiliation with the UPA to make things happen overseas. Do you think this guy cares about the future of American pool?
Now the BCA wants to take back what they gave to the UPA. The janitor at the BCA building earns more money than the average American professional player. The money payouts at the BCA Open is a joke.
The BCA and WPA keep getting fat, and American pros are starving.
There won't be any professional pool in America. The American cue-makers are already selling their wares overseas. The pool players will soon follow. What in the hell is the BCA doing about keeping pool alive and well in the United States?
JAM
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JAM said:And for you to say that the BCA Open is the second-most successful American event is really off the mark. Half of the field is reserved for international players, and the other half are picked behind a curtain by a subcontractor. A ranking system isn't used at all, as history has showed repeatedly year after year.
Anyone who knows pool can look at the BCA Open's list of players year after year and see that the quality of those selections are usually top notch. They let a couple players in who are more crowd draws, young kids and whatnot. Otherwise what it your issue? Half of the field is for international players? Great, that leaves hald of the field for people from America. That is not exactly ostrasizing the American field, it is making a very strong American heavy field in fact. You want the field to be 100% american's? How bloody boring is that? We already get tons of regional events and know who the cream of the crop are in America, many of us want to see how those best in America match up with the best from other places.
This year the tournament is open anyhow, anyone can enter if they want to pay the cash to get it. The BCA under Mark Griffin has been getting more and more objective and is actually moving farther and farther away from the subjective bullshit of earlier times, which the UPA was knee deep in.
JAM said:
Yeah the pro's are starving, and the UPA had ample time to correct this and have done nothing.
What is the BCA doing to keep it alive and well? You mean other then growing the amature pool scene hugely after the sale of the BCA and creating a very good amature ranking system now used in the BCA system from Open-Grand Master level. Changing the BCA Open to a true open 10-ball tournament allowing anyone to enter. The owner of the BCA creating the most consistent playing condition pool table the sport has ever seen in the Diamond and using the 7-foot diamonds in the amature scene so that the sport at that level is far less of the joke coin toss it is on the Valley tables that are stilll used in the VNEA? And they have been changing this stuff and fixing stuff for how long since Mark Griffin took over and had the other members of the BCA try to tear the thing apart as much as possible on their way out?
The BCA has actually MADE progress. They have done vast amounts more good for this sport in the last 3 years then the UPA managed in their entire existence. And they will continue to do such, they have JUST got control of the ranking system again and I am sure if we give them more then 12 hours Jam they will actually do something with that.
Celtic said:
To be clear, my above-referenced comments pertain to the BCA organization, NOT -- I repeat -- NOT the BCA League and Mark Griffin.
I do not see what progress the BCA has made with professional pool in America.
The BCA organization -- not the league -- has an administrative staff of full-time employees who earn more than American professional players. Yet, the BCA organization -- not the league -- does not increase the payouts for the BCA invitational. This once-a-year event should be held more often for American professional players.
The BCA organization gave an unknown entity the authority to be the governing body of professional pool, an unknown entity with no track record. I just do not understand who is behind the curtain at the BCA making the decisions.
JAM
I think those who contributed to the newest BCA voting member should re-read this exchange on another forum. Then ask yourself what has changed in the BCA structure................NOTHING.
Well, maybe, they have become a little more arrogant and out of touch.
http://www.insidepoolmag.com/forums...ing-my-canadacy-become-voting-member-bca.html
Well, maybe, they have become a little more arrogant and out of touch.
http://www.insidepoolmag.com/forums...ing-my-canadacy-become-voting-member-bca.html
Anyone with ideas on how to attract sponsors to the game and how to make certain those sponsors benefit from their efforts please post or write me. Let's build the game with a team effort.[/QUOTE]
First you have to have the honey, then you can attract the sponsors.
www.worldbilliardtour.com
First you have to have the honey, then you can attract the sponsors.
www.worldbilliardtour.com
Snapshot9 said:I don't care for golf - you have to walk too far to make your next mistake!!
I don't like driving to Olathe when Wichita is closer
Plus they got that darn toll road
before you get there.
Boy if the major accomplishment that the BCA has made is to stop conducting a league system and instead sell it to someone else to run, then couldn't we expect the greatest possible benefit would be for them to stop doing ANYTHING and let other people do it?
By the way, if the BCA stopped doing anything at all for the sport, how would we know it? Would they send out a press release? I sure hope they would send out a press release. Otherwise I suspect the general US pool population would find the situation completely indistinguishable from the present condition.
By the way, if the BCA stopped doing anything at all for the sport, how would we know it? Would they send out a press release? I sure hope they would send out a press release. Otherwise I suspect the general US pool population would find the situation completely indistinguishable from the present condition.
Snapshot9 said:I don't care for golf - you have to walk too far to make your next mistake!!
This is one of my top favorite quotes on these boards so far. I actually used a similar line a few times as to why I streched for a shot instead of walking to a different spot on the table.
How did this topic get to US pool vs rest of world pool? Baseball, the most American thing next to evading taxes and diamond studded cell phones, is 80% foreign players. Just don't check my stat
The point should be is why can the BCA decide they are the official ranking body for pro pool? With so many past and present organizations it would seem pretty arbitrary for any of them to be the "official" anything. The PBT was the closest thing to a unified pool tour and ranking system and they went bust soon after the cigarette and alchohol companies ran into advertizing bans and restrictions. IPT had a chance at the same thing but got a bit too mouthy at what they could accomplish. I mean what's with guaranteeing anyone on the tour would make 100k?